Ex-Israeli intelligence unit refuse 'to harm innocent Palestinians

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Ex-Israeli intelligence unit refuse 'to harm innocent Palestinians

In the largest act of conscientious objection in Israel in more than a decade, more than 40 reservists and veterans of a prestigious army intelligence unit have declared that they refuse further military service because they reject being “tools” of Israeli control over the occupied territories.

“We declare that we refuse to take part in actions against Palestinians and refuse to continue serving as tools in deepening the military control over the occupied territories,” wrote reservists of Unit 8200, many of them still active reservists, which is believed to operate one of the largest listening bases in the world, in a letter to army chief of staff Lt. Gen Benny Gantz and published in Israeli media today.

“There is no distinction between Palestinians who are and are not involved in violence,” they wrote. “Information that is collected harms innocent people. It is used for political persecution and to create divisions within Palestinian society by recruiting collaborators and driving parts of Palestinian society against itself. Intelligence allows for the continued control over millions of people through thorough and intrusive supervision and invasion of most areas of life.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/exisraeli-intelligence-unit-refuse-to-harm-innocent-palestinians-9729240.html

Edited September 15, 2014 by Hail Ming!

[OriZ 3,157]

I have some responses to that letter by some other members of 8200(more than just 40 of them), and some responses by Israeli LEFTIST politicians. I'll post them later.

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

Do we have anything similar from the other side? Maybe this can start a movement.

[Dan and Judy 614]

Maybe this can start a movement.

Yes, this and 2 ex lax will fill your diaper to the brim

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

Yes, this and 2 ex lax will fill your diaper to the brim

Captain Underpants don't do diapers.

[Dan and Judy 614]

my bad

[OriZ 3,157]

First, lets begin by saying that none of those who signed this have even served since 2009, they were not part of the recent operation. Hence, it is clear that they have clear political motivations.

Yitzhak "Buji" Herzog (Hebrew: יצחק "בוז'י" הרצוג‎, born 22 September 1960), commonly known in English as Isaac Herzog, is an Israeli politician and lawyer. He is currently a member of the Knesset, chairman of the Labor Party and Leader of the Opposition.

On 22 November 2013 Herzog was elected leader of the Labor Party, defeating incumbent Shelly Yachimovich by 58.5% to 41.5%.^[5] In doing so, he became Leader of the Opposition. Whereas Yachimovich focused first on socioeconomic issues, Herzog prioritizes security and resolution of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict.^[2]

Ten days after the election, Herzog met with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to pledge his support for the two-state solution.

Not a war monger, by any means.

Here is what he had to say about this:

I love the unit, its soldiers and commanders. Its Contribution to the security of Israel and its citizens and beyond is enormous. Thousands and thousands of Israeli citizens owe their lives to it. War on terror is a difficult, complex and painstaking work that requires the best minds. It is important to say: I oppose insubordination and dislike it with a passion. This unit and activities are essential not only for war, but rather, and especially peace. While talking about a political settlement and setting boundaries we are talking about early warning stations and intelligence capabilities to detect and block the extremist forces that would do everything possible to sabotage the peace. "Herzog concluded: "I'm not saying there are no mistakes. Certainly there may be some and the military history of Israel is paved with them., But there are ways how to complain and how to bring the claims to investigation and discussion."

Next, Shelly was even more harsh.

So what if you are 8200? What makes your opinion more important than that of the armored corps, the Golani Brigade, Police, military bands or cooks? You Have a political position, step forward and express it. Respond, protest, set up a party. You Do not have a special status that makes your position more just.

Indeed, this is one of the best units of its kind in the world., If not the best. You, by the way, do not at all represent the majority of its servants. Indeed, the contribution and necessity of 8200 to the IDF will never be told. But hey, the IDF's contribution to you is huge as well, incomparable to what other soldiers, your age receive, even those who risk their lives on the battlefield. You got released from the army equipped with education and practice that you can't purchase at any university in the world, the market is waiting for you with open arms, starting salaries that most citizens of the country can only dream of. This is not a reason to feel you are better and more deserving than others. Quite the opposite. This is a reason to be thankful.

"Your slanders about listening to sex talks and other nonsense of this sort has no relation to reality. In Vain you slander your friends in the unit. During the Sabbath, I spoke with a few of them, no less moral people than you. They feel contempt and anger towards you. They told me 'if they really participated in such an unusual and disgusting occurance, dimming the lights and listening to an intimate conversation, why didn't they just stop it in real time? "That's a good question for all your claims. If you did things that are so unethical, why not refuse orders in real time? You Would refuse, be judged, deposed from the unit, pay a price, and at peace with your conscience. So do people whose conscience torments them really. We all know the story of deputy A from 8200 who also served the Palestinian arena, refused an order because he thought there was a black flag over it, and was dismissed. Why you did not follow his footsteps? How convenient in civil life now, to produce the narrative you have not dared to produce in the army, accompanied by designer modeling photography. Cowards.

"You emphasize that you have no problem with other arenas, only in the PA arena you refuse to serve. What do you say! Next time you are called for your reserve service in the unit (and I hope it will not happen) they might give you a form where you check the box where you do agree to serve in what you have been taught by huge investment?

Syria - perhaps, al Qaeda - Cool., Iran - Well come on alright. Palestinians - not suitable. "Why? Where did the attacks come from that drained the blood of Israelis for the last twenty years? Iraq? No more SIGINT in Palestinian arena, cause you are anxious for the privacy of Palestinians, what happened to you and where do you live? The comparison to totalitarian regimes which are being repressive by invading privacy is ridiculous and irrelevant. The Goal is not to penetrate the thoughts of innocent civilians, but the prevention of terrorism and the murder of innocent people.

Oppose the occupation? Believe in two states for two peoples? Fight. In the political arena. Not on the expense of the IDF. Apparently, I'm angry at you more than rightists are. Precisely because I do not believe in conflict management but its solution. Precisely because I think now that Netanyahu is missing a historic opportunity for a Middle East regional alliance that has a great potential of hope. Precisely because our battle, loving justice peace, is not only a fight for sanity and a true and real attempt at a solution by political means - but a struggle to conquer the mind. Persuasion, reaching the core of the Israeli consensus. "

In your preening and selfish act of yours, you did not hurt the country, but harmed the left. You Did not influence the Israeli public an inch. Vice versa. Your Collection of cliches was shallow and immature, exploiting the IDF, spitting into the well you have been drinking from and will drink from all your life, with infinite arrogance - you moved us back some more The bonuses you will only reap in international conferences or interviews to multinational companies. Not here, in the truly hard, challenging and painful place.

Edited September 16, 2014 by OriZ

[OriZ 3,157]

The letter transferred to army veterans before signing it, said: "We are graduates of Unit 8200, soldiers and reserve soldiers, past and present, wish to express shock, disgust and total renouncing of the unfortunate letter of our fellow unit friends, which chose political refusal and stated that they will be willing to serve no more

political refusal has no place in the army in general and unit 8200 in particular. Once we as reserve soldiers are called up to the flag, we set aside our political tendencies and opinions and come to serve the country. This is the Appropriate way, every soldier should act, especially a unit like ours. We regret that our friends make cynical and political use of their legal and moral duty to serve in the reserve unit, a duty which in our eyes is also a most exalted right, and seek to undermine the activities and achievements in the defense of the country and its people."

As ones who know the unit for many years, we cannot come to terms with the allegations of lack of ethical and moral rules in the unit's ntelligence work" , "Since our first days in the unit, we learned the importance of general surveillance and collection in accordance with high professional standards. Our service in regular and reserve we observed many occasions where the operation of the unit's intelligence capabilities resulted in the maintenance of human life on both sides. "

The Counter letter notes: "Even when ethical dilemmas arise during labor, and during the fighting, we witnessed and still are the mature and responsible handling in line with the principles of international law and the code of ethics and morals of the army."

The Text of the letter was distributed only among graduates yesterday and its reservists, and so far about 150 male and female soldiers made contact with the initiators of the letter and expressed their support. The signatures will be collected in the coming days, and the letter will be forwarded to its destination, as stated at the beginning of next week.

[OriZ 3,157]

In a Western democracy such as Israel - it is every citizen's right to express his or her opinion freely. This right is especially important to exercise when dealing with issues that are at the heart of the political agenda, such as the peace process, or the future of the territories conquered by the IDF in 1967.

Having said that, the current campaign of the "8200 conscientious objectors" has little to do with legitimate expression. It reeks of a calculated political campaign that cynically takes advantage of the hard-earned reputation of one of IDF's most prestigious units.

In my years as Chief of Military Intelligence, I had the privilege of commanding 8200, a unit that has situated itself over the past decade in the forefront of the effort for defending Israel. Through its actions, unit 8200 has won international acclaim as a model of efficiency and innovation in the fields of intelligence collection and covert warfare, turning Israel into a "cyber superpower."

Last week, a group of 43 reservists took advantage of the unit's phenomenal success in order to make a politically controversial argument. Before even getting to its content, grave doubts are cast over the identity of the letter's signatories as their full names were not disclosed - not in the official press nor across the social media networks. This is the definition of acting irresponsibly, as there is no value to a political statement made by those not willing to assume responsibility over it.

Cynically benefitting from the reputation of 8200 is also unfair towards the signatories' peers and colleagues. The Israeli intelligence corps - much like the IDF to which it is part of - is a conscript's army that represents the entire nation, including soldiers with opinions that span across the entire political spectrum. The decision of a few dozen reservists to gain publicity for their political agenda by exploiting the reputation of a unit numbering many thousands of officers, soldiers and NCOs, in reserves as well as in active service, is an unfair move that misrepresents the entirety of this unit.

The profession of intelligence collection is a highly challenging one, both in operational terms as well as in the ethical considerations it requires. Much like other fields of military action, the world of intelligence is far from being sterile. An intelligence body does not operate by the same rules as a summer camp or a human rights organization. Intelligence gathering is a high-stake business that bears direct impact on questions of life and death, and that has strategic impacts on a country's national security. Anyone that has experienced the world of intelligence from within can attest to that. It is a serious operation whose contribution to the security of Israel is often times priceless. Indeed, there are hundreds or perhaps thousands of Israelis among us today whose lives were saved by untold intelligence operations.

Moral dilemmas exist in every intelligence collection operation but there are also rules, ethics and norms of conduct that are observed in each and every of these situations. These norms are efficiently supervised and enforced within the IDF's intelligence corps and inside 8200. They are based on decades of intelligence work, they rely on Israel's laws, and are congruent with Western and international standards. As evidence, even the German Chancellor Angela Merkel has proven not to be immune from the long arm of the American NSA, and neither are the Palestinians.

Unit 8200 operates diligently in all the arenas that threaten Israel's security: Syria, Hezbollah, Iran - and yes, also in the Palestinian territories. As a collective, Palestinian society poses threats to Israeli citizens such as terror attacks and suicide bombings, and it is the IDF's mission to preempt and prevent such hazards. To thwart these threats long before they materialize, an ongoing collection effort is necessary, across the calendar, aimed at exposing the most intimate secrets that the enemy efforts to hide. In order to obtain such sensitive information, the IDF's intelligence unit are often required to exercise deception and manipulation in very sophisticated ways.

In the Israeli public discourse, however, it would be better to have less manipulation and less eschewed depictions of the IDF's top-tier units. In contrast, what we need is more transparency on the identities of those behind this letter, and more appreciation for the important work done by the soldiers, officers and NCO's of excellent units such as 8200.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4571014,00.html

The refusal to serve is a byproduct of a democratic state. One of the dangers the margins pose to a society's strength.

This isn't the first time I am asked to write about refuseniks, and it probably isn't the last time either. Over time, I have learned that there is no real difference between those who refuse on the left and those who refuse on the right. The excuses are different, the pattern of action is similar.

If you rummage deep enough, you'll discover that behind every refusenik who receives a lot of media attention, there is an activist which understands how the media work. There are few people whose conscience dictates the decision. It's usually the newspaper headline which dictates the words and the timing.

The link between a certain unit's name and a political protest stems from the same approach. Not because of the actual interest, but simply in order to create interest. Politics sponsored by confused explanations about conscientious problems.

Unit 8200 has outstanding people with diverse political views. This is part of what characterizes an army of a democratic state. When we talk about reserve service, the democratic identity is emphasized.

In the army I have known for the past 20 years, there are rightists and leftists who criticize the state and fight for it with the same strength. The political dispute grinds to a halt when they don their uniform.

After the Kfar kassem events on October 29, 1956, Judge Benjamin Halevy coined the phrase "a blatantly illegal order." The IDF teaches soldiers that there are times in which they must stop. When a soldier stops where he doesn’t have to, he is simply a criminal violating a command.

The current refuseniks' letter isn't violating any order, neither legal nor illegal. They won't pay a price. That's the case with the courage to refuse from afar.

The letter is a declarative gimmick, marginal politics which means "we are not part of the game."

Isn't it absurd that those who are now defending their right to promote insubordination are the same people who will cry out in the name of democracy against soldiers refusing to evacuate a caravan from some Samaria hill? Those who waive the right to influence from within the system in the name of insubordination are the same people who will complain that the army is becoming too rightist or too religious.

And what about me? I am afraid of an army in which everyone holds the same political view because others have given up.

And I am mainly afraid of small political activists who don’t give a damn about anything, and are burning down the house which used to be theirs for the sake of a gimmick.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4570742,00.html

[Dan and Judy 614]

Do we have anything similar from the other side? Maybe this can start a movement.

26 Palestinians took an oath not to shoot rockets into Israel on thursdays.

[OriZ 3,157]

26 Palestinians took an oath not to shoot rockets into Israel on thursdays.

lol. And then they were executed.