Bill Maher Battles Charlie Rose on Why Islam is More Dangerous than Other Religions

[Dan and Judy 614]

Absolutely. Many tried to institute religious laws at the state and community level, so much so that Jefferson himself proceeded to draft the Virginia statute for religious freedom.

Fortunately in the years thereafter, the USC prevailed and the country fulfilled its secular destiny, as intended by the founding fathers.

No not as intended by the founding fathers. The first Amendment kept the US congress from making laws respecting an establishment of religion, They did not intend the country to be secular. It was to limit the power of the federal goverment, not the state goverments

[JohnR! 5,495]

You can only have freedom of religion in a secular nation, for there is no freedom of religion without freedom from religion.

Call it what you want; as a nation America was born and remains secular.

No not as intended by the founding fathers. The first Amendment kept the US congress from making laws respecting an establishment of religion, They did not intend the country to be secular. It was to limit the power of the federal goverment, not the state goverments

[Dan and Judy 614]

You can only have freedom of religion in a secular nation, for there is no freedom of religion without freedom from religion.

Call it what you want; as a nation America was born and remains secular.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Religious_Test_Clause

Earlier in U.S. history, the doctrine of states' rights allowed individual states complete discretion regarding the inclusion of a religious test in their state constitutions. Such religious tests have in recent decades been deemed to be unconstitutional by the extension of the First Amendment provisions to the states (via the incorporation of the 14th Amendment).

Eight states do include language in their constitutions either requiring state officeholders to have particular religious beliefs or specifically protecting those who do:

1. Arkansas (Article 19 Section 1)
2. Maryland (Article 37)
3. Mississippi (Article 14, Section 265)
4. North Carolina (Article 6 Section 8)
5. Pennsylvania (Article 1 Section 4)
6. South Carolina (Article 17 Section 4)
7. Tennessee (Article 9 Section 2)
8. Texas (Article 1 Section 4)

This is Texas

ection 4 Text of Section 4:

Religious Tests

No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being.^[1]

This is Arkansas

Article 19 of the Arkansas Constitution is entitled Miscellaneous Provisions. It is numbered in Sections 1-27, although some of the sections are no longer operative, having been repealed.

Section 1 Text of Section 1:

Atheists Disqualified from Holding Office or Testifying as Witness

No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any Court.^[1

I don't consider this freedom from religion, According to you "there is no freedom of religion without freedom from religion"

These laws would now be considered unconstitutional but that didn't happen until around 1920.

The idea that the US was born secular doesn't hold water

[JohnR! 5,495]

Thanks for making my point. The First Amendment of the Bill of Rights, which you cite were always there. That some state laws were only challenged in the 1920s does not mean they were constitutional until then, so much as nobody bothered to challenge them.

'Such religious tests have in recent decades been deemed to be unconstitutional by the extension of the First Amendment provisions to the states (via the incorporation of the 14th Amendment).'

The US was born secular, so much so it doesn't support, condone or endorse any particular religion. That is the very definition of secular. There is a reason the founding fathers enshrined a clear separation between church and state in the USC. It should also be noted that 'religious freedom' only exists within the framework of the law, which is another evidence of secularism, otherwise polygamy and pedophilia would abound amongst certain religious groups.

Here is an interesting read on the AR law you mention: http://lawreview.law.uark.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/jewellforweb.pdf

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what you or I think, so much that we all remain free to practice our religion, or practice our freedom from religion. That is what really matters.

Edited September 14, 2014 by JohnR!

[Dan and Judy 614]

You can only have freedom of religion in a secular nation, for there is no freedom of religion without freedom from religion.

Call it what you want; as a nation America was born and remains secular.

Also the US operated under the Articles of Confederation for 8 years before they were replaced with the constitution which contained the bill of rights.

freedom of religion is not mentioned int Articles of Confederation

but this is:

"And Whereas it hath pleased the Great Governor of the World to incline the hearts of the legislatures we respectively represent in congress, to approve of, and to authorize us to ratify the said articles of confederation and perpetual union"

Not Born secular

[Dan and Judy 614]

Thanks for making my point. The First Amendment of the Bill of Rights, which you cite were always there. That some state laws were only challenged in the 1920s does not mean they were constitutional until then, so much as nobody bothered to challenge them.

'Such religious tests have in recent decades been deemed to be unconstitutional by the extension of the First Amendment provisions to the states (via the incorporation of the 14th Amendment).'

The US was born secular, so much so it doesn't support, condone or endorse any particular religion. That is the very definition of secular. There is a reason the founding fathers enshrined a clear separation between church and state in the USC. It should also be noted that 'religious freedom' only exists within the framework of the law, which is another evidence of secularism, otherwise polygamy and pedophilia would abound amongst certain religious groups.

Here is an interesting read on the AR law you mention: http://lawreview.law.uark.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/jewellforweb.pdf

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what you or I think, so much that we all remain free to practice our religion, or practice our freedom from religion. That is what really matters.

Need to read your own quotes. The 14th amendment wasn't passed until 1868. So they were not unconstitutional until 1868.

Not born secular

[Curmudgeon 227]

As I said, the US suffers from having a written constitution. The message of the founding fathers was that everyone should be free to practice their religion without fear or favor. That has translated into, everyone can practice their religion (however wacky and self serving that religion may be) as long as the practice of that religion does not infringe on a christian version of morality. The written constitution is an ###. (As in, a stupid donkey, not a bottom).