Brooklyn women tired of 'white people moving into the area' force tenants out at gunpoint

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

I'll provide the context for this one.

The complaint is, when white people move into black areas, the services come back and the neighborhood improves. The issue with this is two-fold:

1. Why aren't the services there before? The people living there are paying taxes all the same, yet their trash isn't picked up daily, nor are the streets cleaned, nor a heavy police prescience. But when an influx of white people come in, these things get fixed.

2. When the former happens, the property value goes up. Now the folks that have been living there can't afford the rent. They have to move to a lower class neighborhood.

I'm all for unity, but people should be treated as equals, no matter what the color is.

So... You (or I guess rather they) think the benefits should go up (#1).. but not the costs (#2)

am I understanding that correctly? If I am then I see a problem..

Edited September 10, 2014 by OnMyWayID

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

So... You (or I guess rather they) think the benefits should go up (#1).. but not the costs (#2)

am I understanding that correctly? If I am then I see a problem..

No, I'm for equal treatment for all living in the neighborhood. I've seen this personally:

My old neighborhood was predominantly white when my parents and I moved there. It was a nice place to grow up. Very clean and the police made sure crime was virtually non existent. My parents paid their dues just like everyone one else. A teacher and a General Electric worker.

Soon, more black people started moving in. All with decent jobs. That's when things changed. The cops came around less and less, the streets stopped being cleaned and we started having issues with crime. My mom had to put bars and an alarm system in. I asked what happened(I was in the military at this point).

So, maybe you can explain it to me?

[Karee 4,190]

No, I'm for equal treatment for all living in the neighborhood. I've seen this personally:

My old neighborhood was predominantly white when my parents and I moved there. It was a nice place to grow up. Very clean and the police made sure crime was virtually non existent. My parents paid their dues just like everyone one else. A teacher and a General Electric worker.

Soon, more black people started moving in. All with decent jobs. That's when things changed. The cops came around less and less, the streets stopped being cleaned and we started having issues with crime. My mom had to put bars and an alarm system in. I asked what happened(I was in the military at this point).

So, maybe you can explain it to me?

I bolded and underlined the issue for you. You're welcome.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Karee

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I bolded and underlined the issue for you. You're welcome.

I hate you.

[JohnR! 5,495]

More people with good jobs and less patrolling - that can make a target of any neighborhood.

No, I'm for equal treatment for all living in the neighborhood. I've seen this personally:

My old neighborhood was predominantly white when my parents and I moved there. It was a nice place to grow up. Very clean and the police made sure crime was virtually non existent. My parents paid their dues just like everyone one else. A teacher and a General Electric worker.

Soon, more black people started moving in. All with decent jobs. That's when things changed. The cops came around less and less, the streets stopped being cleaned and we started having issues with crime. My mom had to put bars and an alarm system in. I asked what happened(I was in the military at this point).

So, maybe you can explain it to me?

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

No, I'm for equal treatment for all living in the neighborhood. I've seen this personally:

My old neighborhood was predominantly white when my parents and I moved there. It was a nice place to grow up. Very clean and the police made sure crime was virtually non existent. My parents paid their dues just like everyone one else. A teacher and a General Electric worker.

Soon, more black people started moving in. All with decent jobs. That's when things changed. The cops came around less and less, the streets stopped being cleaned and we started having issues with crime. My mom had to put bars and an alarm system in. I asked what happened(I was in the military at this point).

So, maybe you can explain it to me?

Sure.. First I'm going to remind you what you said earlier:

The complaint is, when white people move into black areas, the services come back and the neighborhood improves. The issue with this is two-fold:

1. Why aren't the services there before? The people living there are paying taxes all the same, yet their trash isn't picked up daily, nor are the streets cleaned, nor a heavy police prescience. But when an influx of white people come in, these things get fixed.

2. When the former happens, the property value goes up. Now the folks that have been living there can't afford the rent. They have to move to a lower class neighborhood.

For number 1: If the services were all there before it would not have been "run down" in the first place, the rent would never have been low and the people who are living there because it was cheap would never have been there. When an area becomes a #######-hole it gets cheap when it stops being a #######-hole it gets more expensive because people will pay more to live there. Supply and demand.

There are no groups of people sitting in a backroom somewhere pouring over demographics and saying "That section of the city has passed the 20% white threshold, lets pick up the garbage more often and clean things up!" For a section of the city to become run down or experience improvement something else happens:

An area usually becomes rundown because as it ages and people that can afford it move to more desirable areas - the new areas are more desirable because they are paid for by developers (not the government) and designed to bring them more money. To succeed they need to be a better option... This leaves the old areas with less affluent people.. The shopping habits of these people then shape what stores and other businesses can exist around them.

This area is now considered "steady-state" as no new people are moving in and no improvements are being done... The amount of tax revenue does not increase. The new areas being built bring in new revenue to the sanitation, cable, internet, and power companies. The government also sees new revenues. Money spent here has an ROI - money spent upgrading existing does not and is done only on an "as needed" basis.

For an area to stay nice requires the people living there to be involved - to attend community and city meetings, to actually vote "yes" when tax levies are put to a vote for community improvements, to work with police to clean out the problem people - the us/them attitude goes both ways and does neither side any favors... The alternative to this is that the city looks at an area and says "one more year of the same"

The wife is calling, have to cut this short... I was going to try to OREO this but I guess that will have to wait

Edited September 10, 2014 by OnMyWayID

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

ney

Sure.. First I'm going to remind you what you said earlier:

The complaint is, when white people move into black areas, the services come back and the neighborhood improves. The issue with this is two-fold:

1. Why aren't the services there before? The people living there are paying taxes all the same, yet their trash isn't picked up daily, nor are the streets cleaned, nor a heavy police prescience. But when an influx of white people come in, these things get fixed.

2. When the former happens, the property value goes up. Now the folks that have been living there can't afford the rent. They have to move to a lower class neighborhood.

For number 1: If the services were all there before it would not have been "run down" in the first place, the rent would never have been low and the people who are living there because it was cheap would never have been there. When an area becomes a #######-hole it gets cheap when it stops being a #######-hole it gets more expensive because people will pay more to live there. Supply and demand.

There are no groups of people sitting in a backroom somewhere pouring over demographics and saying "That section of the city has passed the 20% white threshold, lets pick up the garbage more often and clean things up!" For a section of the city to become run down or experience improvement something else happens:

An area usually becomes rundown because as it ages and people that can afford it move to more desirable areas - the new areas are more desirable because they are paid for by developers (not the government) and designed to bring them more money. To succeed they need to be a better option... This leaves the old areas with less affluent people.. The shopping habits of these people then shape what stores and other businesses can exist around them.

This area is now considered "steady-state" as no new people are moving in and no improvements are being done... The amount of tax revenue does not increase. The new areas being built bring in new revenue to the sanitation, cable, internet, and power companies. The government also sees new revenues. Money spent here has an ROI - money spent upgrading existing does not and is done only on an "as needed" basis.

For an area to stay nice requires the people living there to be involved - to attend community and city meetings, to actually vote "yes" when tax levies are put to a vote for community improvements, to work with police to clean out the problem people - the us/them attitude goes both ways and does neither side any favors... The alternative to this is that the city looks at an area and says "one more year of the same"

The wife is calling, have to cut this short... I was going to try to OREO this but I guess that will have to wait

From what I remember, that's what they did. We were very active in programs. My mother votes on everything. She can't afford not to.

Last year when the big ice storm hit, there was a story on the news about a black neighborhood the city wouldn't allow the trucks to clean the streets. There was a meeting and the residents were on camera going off. These were older people, in their 50's. One man stood up and said we pay for the city to take care of this, why hasn't our streets been cleaned, when 2 blocks over, their streets have been. My aunt lives there, and I'd driven her home during this time and made the same comment. She said they've been complaining about it for a while.

But thanks for the explanation.

[Teddy B 17,252]

From what I remember, that's what they did. We were very active in programs. My mother votes on everything. She can't afford not to.

Last year when the big ice storm hit, there was a story on the news about a black neighborhood the city wouldn't allow the trucks to clean the streets. There was a meeting and the residents were on camera going off. These were older people, in their 50's. One man stood up and said we pay for the city to take care of this, why hasn't our streets been cleaned, when 2 blocks over, their streets have been. My aunt lives there, and I'd driven her home during this time and made the same comment. She said they've been complaining about it for a while.

But thanks for the explanation.

Was there a reason given as to why?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Was there a reason given as to why?

No. I think that's why they were so upset. I've been looking for this story for a while to find out more. It was one of those stories on the news where they kept showing clips of it, but I never saw the outcome or the reasoning behind it. I just saw a bunch of black people in the town hall mad as hell they couldn't drive to work because their streets were too slick to operate a vehicle.

Teddy, my aunt lives down there. I took her home after the my mother's Christmas party. I saw it with my own eyes. Streets, only blocks apart, looked like night and day.

[Teddy B 17,252]

No. I think that's why they were so upset. I've been looking for this story for a while to find out more. It was one of those stories on the news where they kept showing clips of it, but I never saw the outcome or the reasoning behind it. I just saw a bunch of black people in the town hall mad as hell they couldn't drive to work because their streets were too slick to operate a vehicle.

Teddy, my aunt lives down there. I took her home after the my mother's Christmas party. I saw it with my own eyes. Streets, only blocks apart, looked like night and day.

I believe you Marvin, I was just curious as to what the reasoning behind it would be. Apparently there wasn't anything logical behind it or someone from the city would have said something.

Not making excuses, but were these streets on a hill by any chance that would have made it difficult for the plow trucks to get up and down safely? Were there trees down?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I believe you Marvin, I was just curious as to what the reasoning behind it would be. Apparently there wasn't anything logical behind it or someone from the city would have said something.

Not making excuses, but were these streets on a hill by any chance that would have made it difficult for the plow trucks to get up and down safely? Were there trees down?

I wish I could have taken a video when I was driving. No, just flat streets. It was jarring because we had to loop around since the blocks around her house were treacherous and my little car was sliding all over the place. I kept my hand on the emergency brake just in case I slid out of control. I started to ask her why certain streets were cleared, then I let my VJ alter ego take over. She just shook her head and laughed. She's already talking about moving.

[mtempelaar 190]

From what I remember, that's what they did. We were very active in programs. My mother votes on everything. She can't afford not to.

Last year when the big ice storm hit, there was a story on the news about a black neighborhood the city wouldn't allow the trucks to clean the streets. There was a meeting and the residents were on camera going off. These were older people, in their 50's. One man stood up and said we pay for the city to take care of this, why hasn't our streets been cleaned, when 2 blocks over, their streets have been. My aunt lives there, and I'd driven her home during this time and made the same comment. She said they've been complaining about it for a while.

But thanks for the explanation.

I tend to think snow removal policies are a bad way to judge if a city is prejudicial against communities or not. Different cities have different methods to determine what tier of removal service any given street has. Was the street that was cleared over a major route to a hospital, transportation artery or for emergency services? Were cars parked on one street but not the other or one street wider than the other (limiting whether a plow could actually get through?). Does a city have an advanced and experienced snow removal management team or do they wing it because snow accumulation doesn't happen often?. Is there a published snow removal route map to see how the city tiered the roads? Are there enough plows and drivers to support the city/community? Do they store enough sand or salt to properly pre-treat all roads?

There's a massive difference between how NYC would plan snow removal routes versus how Atlanta does it. I've moved to Charlotte, NC and while snow accumulation is rare, the city has a robust tiered (and published) removal map. Unfortunately their road treatments are useless and the only time I've seen a plow was on the news Up in Connecticut they'd be plowing my dead end residential street in the rural area of the town every other hour 24/7. Why? Because they have the experience, resources and budget to handle snow. When I lived in Washington DC there was one huge storm and we found out that the city didn't even OWN plows. No one was cleared. Big fallout on that one (no pun intended).

[Teddy B 17,252]

I wish I could have taken a video when I was driving. No, just flat streets. It was jarring because we had to loop around since the blocks around her house were treacherous and my little car was sliding all over the place. I kept my hand on the emergency brake just in case I slid out of control. I started to ask her why certain streets were cleared, then I let my VJ alter ego take over. She just shook her head and laughed. She's already talking about moving.

That's a sucky situation to be in. It's a shame if racial issues did indeed play a role.

You do know that if you are sliding on ice, your emergency brake will be useless? I've driven in extreme icy conditions like that a few times, it wasn't any fun. One year I was driving my 4 wheel drive pick up down a side street that was covered in ice, once I hit the curve the back of my truck started to slide out to the right and there was no coming back. I ended up stuck in a snow bank on the side of the road and had to have the truck winched out.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I'll provide the context for this one.

The complaint is, when white people move into black areas, the services come back and the neighborhood improves. The issue with this is two-fold:

1. Why aren't the services there before? The people living there are paying taxes all the same, yet their trash isn't picked up daily, nor are the streets cleaned, nor a heavy police prescience. But when an influx of white people come in, these things get fixed.

2. When the former happens, the property value goes up. Now the folks that have been living there can't afford the rent. They have to move to a lower class neighborhood.

I'm all for unity, but people should be treated as equals, no matter what the color is.

I watched brick mansions on the way over. Good movie

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I tend to think snow removal policies are a bad way to judge if a city is prejudicial against communities or not. Different cities have different methods to determine what tier of removal service any given street has. Was the street that was cleared over a major route to a hospital, transportation artery or for emergency services? Were cars parked on one street but not the other or one street wider than the other (limiting whether a plow could actually get through?). Does a city have an advanced and experienced snow removal management team or do they wing it because snow accumulation doesn't happen often?. Is there a published snow removal route map to see how the city tiered the roads? Are there enough plows and drivers to support the city/community? Do they store enough sand or salt to properly pre-treat all roads?

There's a massive difference between how NYC would plan snow removal routes versus how Atlanta does it. I've moved to Charlotte, NC and while snow accumulation is rare, the city has a robust tiered (and published) removal map. Unfortunately their road treatments are useless and the only time I've seen a plow was on the news Up in Connecticut they'd be plowing my dead end residential street in the rural area of the town every other hour 24/7. Why? Because they have the experience, resources and budget to handle snow. When I lived in Washington DC there was one huge storm and we found out that the city didn't even OWN plows. No one was cleared. Big fallout on that one (no pun intended).

Good questions:

The last year was brutal. Before then it was causal snow. The anger, from what I saw, was there's no difference in the streets. We're not talking different neighborhoods, we're talking blocks. One over from another. That's why when I saw the story I brushed it off as folks just not being patient enough. Then I drove down there.

I watched brick mansions on the way over. Good movie

Paul Walker's last movie right?

That's a sucky situation to be in. It's a shame if racial issues did indeed play a role.

You do know that if you are sliding on ice, your emergency brake will be useless? I've driven in extreme icy conditions like that a few times, it wasn't any fun. One year I was driving my 4 wheel drive pick up down a side street that was covered in ice, once I hit the curve the back of my truck started to slide out to the right and there was no coming back. I ended up stuck in a snow bank on the side of the road and had to have the truck winched out.

I drive a sports car. It's the only thing I have in it if we slide out. It's happened a few times before. Trust me, before or when I move, I'm getting an SUV.