Freaking out. selective services registration.

[Ian H. 207]

I'm not sure how it works when you are under 31 and didn't register but after you are 31, this is definitely NOT an issue. So even if your N400 gets denied based on this, you would still be eligible for citizenship when you turn 31. So even if one willfully fails to register, it's not a permanent bar to citizenship, go figure. I found this:

A: Note to USCIS officers: In accordance with U.S. Citizenship & Immigration Service (USCIS) Policy Manual - Volume 12 - Part D - Chapter 7, applicants for naturalization who are over age 31 are eligible for naturalization even if they knowingly and willfully failed to register. This is because the applicant's failure to register would be outside of the statutory period during which the applicant must show that he is of good moral character and disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States. Thus a man's failure to register with Selective Service does not make him ineligible for naturalization because he is age 31 or older.

http://www.sss.gov/Status.html

[Caryh 5,206]

I'm not sure how it works when you are under 31 and didn't register but after you are 31, this is definitely NOT an issue. So even if your N400 gets denied based on this, you would still be eligible for citizenship when you turn 31. So even if one willfully fails to register, it's not a permanent bar to citizenship, go figure. I found this:

A: Note to USCIS officers: In accordance with U.S. Citizenship & Immigration Service (USCIS) Policy Manual - Volume 12 - Part D - Chapter 7, applicants for naturalization who are over age 31 are eligible for naturalization even if they knowingly and willfully failed to register. This is because the applicant's failure to register would be outside of the statutory period during which the applicant must show that he is of good moral character and disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States. Thus a man's failure to register with Selective Service does not make him ineligible for naturalization because he is age 31 or older.

http://www.sss.gov/Status.html

Personally I would wait until obtaining age 31. Things have been known to go seriously wrong for green cards holders who are found to be of bad moral character when they apply for citizenship. As in revocation of green card and deportation proceedings wrong. I'm not sure when the welcome letter started including the information on selective service registration being required of young men, but that alone could be all the proof someone at USCIS could decide they need. I believe in treading carefully where the consequences are high.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

haha you really think I would willingly not register if I have seen it on the welcome letter.I'm pretty sure I'm not the first to not register and sure not everybody gets denied for that reason...thx for the info though very helpful .

I'm not scolding you, I am just saying that the argument from another poster that I quoted will not work, that it is all USCIS's fault. It is your responsibility to sign up, and if you did not, then you will need to wait until age 31 for N400. People do get denied for this all the time.

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/nativedocuments/M-617.pdf

[Ontarkie 14,222]

I've been here 6 yrs and it was in the welcome letter then. Part of what are your rights and responsibility.

[Tarik 11]

Well thx everybody for the info...I've decided not to take the risk and just wait a couple years until I turn 31.I'm still gonna request the status letter from the sss just to have on hand and prove I tried to register when I found out I was required to.

[Caryh 5,206]

Well thx everybody for the info...I've decided not to take the risk and just wait a couple years until I turn 31.I'm still gonna request the status letter from the sss just to have on hand and prove I tried to register when I found out I was required to.

That's the smart plan in my view.

[Ian H. 207]

I understand your concerns, but I wouldn't hold off my citizenship app because other people are confused as to this policy. According to the link from the first response, since you are the spouse of a USC, you only need to show 3 years of moral character under this requirement. So you would be able to apply at 29, not 31. As for those who are saying you can get deported, this isn't the kind of case. Getting your green card revoked under the moral character clause is for serious stuff like falsely claiming citizenship and felonies. If he can't get deported after turning 31, why would he be deported before? You can consult an immigration attorney, most consultations are free. But this isn't a serious issue as people here want to make it when you didn't willfully fail to register.

But if you already made up your mind, that's ok.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

I understand your concerns, but I wouldn't hold off my citizenship app because other people are confused as to this policy. According to the link from the first response, since you are the spouse of a USC, you only need to show 3 years of moral character under this requirement. So you would be able to apply at 29, not 31. As for those who are saying you can get deported, this isn't the kind of case. Getting your green card revoked under the moral character clause is for serious stuff like falsely claiming citizenship and felonies. If he can't get deported after turning 31, why would he be deported before? You can consult an immigration attorney, most consultations are free. But this isn't a serious issue as people here want to make it when you didn't willfully fail to register.

But if you already made up your mind, that's ok.

You are just dead wrong, like you have been serially dead wrong in the past. You are making this up, based on what you think, instead of what it is. No one said anything about deportation, people said denial.

Here is a recent example: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/495417-application-denied-a-day-before-oath-ceremony-no-notices-received/

You can find many more.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Harpa Timsah

[Ian H. 207]

No the problem here is you taking my posts out of context. First, I am not making anything up because the OP is NOT risking his LPR status by applying for citizenship before age 31. Someone did imply revocation and deportation on a previous post, which is why I mentioned it in the first place.

Second, the OP won't get an automatic denial based on his applying at age 29, he will have the opportunity to prove he wasn't aware of the registration. While applying after 31 will guarantee this won't be an issue, it doesn't preclude the OP from applying early and being approved. I never suggested that the possibility of denial didn't exist, my intention was to ease the OP's mind about the repercussions not being as serious as deportation or permanent bar to citizenship. Meaning that THE worst that can happen is that his app. gets denied and can apply after 31.

I suggested he can consult an attorney as to his chances of being approved and he can then make a more informed decision on whether or not to apply.

http://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartD-Chapter7.html#S-B

You are just dead wrong, like you have been serially dead wrong in the past. You are making this up, based on what you think, instead of what it is. No one said anything about deportation, people said denial.

http://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartD-Chapter7.html#S-B

Here is a recent example: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/495417-application-denied-a-day-before-oath-ceremony-no-notices-received/

You can find many more.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Ian H.

[Ian H. 207]

It sounds like this is something more at the discretion of the officer rather than a set in stone policy.

This is from a law office:

if an applicant for naturalization files at age 29, the five year period prior to the application goes back to when he was age 24 (29-5) and the applicant could still have registered at that age. Because he could have registered, but did not register during the statutory period, the applicant must prove that his failure to register was not knowing and willful.

Since this can be a difficult thing to prove, most officers will accept a signed statement (either filed with the application, presented at the interview, or taken at the interview) from the applicant under oath. This document will usually state the reasons for failure to register or that the applicant did not know about the requirement (therefore, the failure to register was not knowing or willful) and that had he known he would have registered. In addition, it will state that the applicant is and always has been willing to fight on behalf of the United States and is willing to help in any other way he can if called upon.

http://www.immig-chicago.com/clientuploads/pdf/SelectiveServiceRegistration.pdf

[Hypnos 6,576]

To be fair some of your previous advice has been questionable at best.

The OP has yet to post back with regards to their communication with Selective Service; all this speculation may well be moot in his case.

[JimmyHou 611]

Several people who have replied have said that if you wait until you are 31 you will be fine. That is correct.

I want to add two things, though:

1- the good moral character requirement as defined in the USCIS policy manual talks about "the statutory period" before your application. This is 5 years for some applicants, but it is only 3 years if you are applying based on marriage. As a result, several "legal advice" websites say that if you are applying based on marriage to a US citizen, you'll be fine at age 29 (not 31) if you failed to register for selective service. I haven't looked for this explicitly on a USCIS document - someone in that situation needs to double check for himself.

2 - very recently (in the last four months or so) an applicant on here who had not signed up for selective service was approved. He was under 31 and was applying based on 5 years as a PR. He documented his entire process on here in one of the threads - please try to find it. He brought in a letter from Selective Service saying he hadn't registered, he brought in a letter from his school saying that it wasn't their policy to automatically register green card holders (some schools include a registration form in your orientation materials), and he brought in some signed affidavits saying that he didn't know anything about the requirement. I can't remember what else he did, but there was a long list. The interviewer approved his N400.

As others have said, this is cause for denial of your application, but you will be able to reapply. However, if you read the requirement, failing to register for Selective Service in itself is NOT grounds for denial. It is clearly stated that only failing to "KNOWINGLY" register is grounds for denial. Of course, it's hard to prove that you didn't know that you had to register, because the welcome letter that came with your green card said you did. But in at least one case (mentioned above) the interviewer beloved the applicant.

Finally, the post concerning the possibility of having your green card revoked for this is absolutely incorrect. You shouldn't worry about that. If you have the money to spare and you're in a hurry to be naturalized, you can apply and try to convince the interviewer that you didn't know that you had to register. There will be a significant chance that you will be denied, but there's a chance that you'll be approved. If you can wait, or if money is tight, then wait a few years. However, note that there are cases where even after age 31 this issue had caused delays (but not denials) in the application process.

Whatever you decide, don't freak out. At worst, his will cause a delay. You're still a green card holder and you'll be naturalized eventually.