Pat Robertson on Robin Williams: He Killed Himself Because He Worshipped False Gods

[JohnR! 5,495]

However, the responsibility for the result falls on the cleanup crew, as always. Everyone was demanding that Obama bring our troops back and many here were criticizing the POTUS for not having a more aggressive schedule in doing so. Hypocritically they are the same who now claim Obama should have left our men and women in Iraq...

Any port. Any port at all.

Meh, that was predictable before we ever went in there. Bush was well warned about both Iraq and Afghanistan in that they were futile wars.

[rlogan 2,036]

Dogmatic is a religious term? It can be used to describe some religious tenets, to be sure, but it also has non-religious meaning, as well. There are folks on VJ that are dogmatic in their support of Obama, though when asked, they can provide no basis for this adoration, no examples of the good that he has done.

tsk tsk, Dave. Dogma is a set of principles laid down by an authority.

There is no authority to lay down dogma for atheists. So no, it is nothing like Obama-bots either. He was clearly coming from a religious framework, first claiming atheists worshipped, and next with the dogma. So interjecting yourself here has the added benefit of showing how bad that analogy is too.

Someone above already pointed out this peculiar deficit in people: the inability to see outside their own personal frame of reference. It is odd how difficult this is to grasp for those steeped in their own propaganda. Or is it because they feel self-conscious and insist you must be doing the same thing they are? I don't know, but it is amazing for its closed-mindedness.

There are plenty of non-religious terms to use like stubborn or aggressive etc. - these could apply to individuals who are atheists. But the truth is that for the religious, the stakes are huge: their belief in everlasting life. Someone who rejects that is an enormous threat to their personal world view: their dogma. So a person who rejects their dogma is labeled "dogmatic" by them. I see that in this case because when I asked for names, I got zero.

That's pretty important data to me. If you come on harping about some really hugely irritating group of people with their dogma, their worshipping, and all - and you can't even name a single one... pffft. What nonsense. Isn't that the point of this thread? Robin Williiams was framed as worshipping false Gods. The straw man logical fallacy.

Edited September 3, 2014 by rlogan

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

tsk tsk, Dave. Dogma is a set of principles laid down by an authority.

There is no authority to lay down dogma for atheists. So no, it is nothing like Obama-bots either. He was clearly coming from a religious framework, first claiming atheists worshipped, and next with the dogma. So interjecting yourself here has the added benefit of showing how bad that analogy is too.

Someone above already pointed out this peculiar deficit in people: the inability to see outside their own personal frame of reference. It is odd how difficult this is to grasp for those steeped in their own propaganda. Or is it because they feel self-conscious and insist you must be doing the same thing they are? I don't know, but it is amazing for its closed-mindedness.

There are plenty of non-religious terms to use like stubborn or aggressive etc. - these could apply to individuals who are atheists. But the truth is that for the religious, the stakes are huge: their belief in everlasting life. Someone who rejects that is an enormous threat to their personal world view: their dogma. So a person who rejects their dogma is labeled "dogmatic" by them. I see that in this case because when I asked for names, I got zero.

That's pretty important data to me. If you come on harping about some really hugely irritating group of people with their dogma, their worshipping, and all - and you can't even name a single one... pffft. What nonsense. Isn't that the point of this thread? Robin Williiams was framed as worshipping false Gods. The straw man logical fallacy.

Doyle Smith. Do you know him. No? I thought as much. Please prattle on.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

There isn't much on Doyle Smith that appears via a Google search.

You'd have been better off bringing up Richard Dawkins - at least people have heard of him.

[Rob L 3,811]

Dogmatic is a religious term? It can be used to describe some religious tenets, to be sure, but it also has non-religious meaning, as well. There are folks on VJ that are dogmatic in their support of Obama, though when asked, they can provide no basis for this adoration, no examples of the good that he has done.

tsk tsk, Dave. Dogma is a set of principles laid down by an authority.

There is no authority to lay down dogma for atheists. So no, it is nothing like Obama-bots either. He was clearly coming from a religious framework, first claiming atheists worshipped, and next with the dogma. So interjecting yourself here has the added benefit of showing how bad that analogy is too.

Someone above already pointed out this peculiar deficit in people: the inability to see outside their own personal frame of reference. It is odd how difficult this is to grasp for those steeped in their own propaganda. Or is it because they feel self-conscious and insist you must be doing the same thing they are? I don't know, but it is amazing for its closed-mindedness.

There are plenty of non-religious terms to use like stubborn or aggressive etc. - these could apply to individuals who are atheists. But the truth is that for the religious, the stakes are huge: their belief in everlasting life. Someone who rejects that is an enormous threat to their personal world view: their dogma. So a person who rejects their dogma is labeled "dogmatic" by them. I see that in this case because when I asked for names, I got zero.

That's pretty important data to me. If you come on harping about some really hugely irritating group of people with their dogma, their worshipping, and all - and you can't even name a single one... pffft. What nonsense. Isn't that the point of this thread? Robin Williiams was framed as worshipping false Gods. The straw man logical fallacy.

A subtle use of language : True Dogma is a set of principles laid down by an authority which we usually take as a religous authority

The use of Dogmatic or Dogmatically can be used to describe "expressing personal opinions or beliefs as if they are certainly correct and cannot be doubted" which could apply to describe the behaviour of folks holding subjects views on religion ( on anti-religon) , politics, society or even the inconvertable truth that the GB Packers will be crushed by two touchdowns tonight @ Seattle

[Rob L 3,811]

There isn't much on Doyle Smith that appears via a Google search.

You'd have been better off bringing up Richard Dawkins - at least people have heard of him.

Maybe we should bring Doyle Brunson the Godfather of Poker into the debate instead

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

A subtle use of language : True Dogma is a set of principles laid down by an authority which we usually take as a religous authority

The use of Dogmatic or Dogmatically can be used to describe "expressing personal opinions or beliefs as if they are certainly correct and cannot be doubted" which could apply to describe the behaviour of folks holding subjects views on religion ( on anti-religon) , politics, society or even the inconvertable truth that the GB Packers will be crushed by two touchdowns tonight @ Seattle

What. It's not a religious term ?? You ever been around a bunch of Nasty Fla Gator fans. Dogmatic lot

Maybe we should bring Doyle Brunson the Godfather of Poker into the debate instead

That's becuse Doyle Smith is an unknown atheist who i am friends with on FB

[GandD 5,966]

[Dan and Judy 614]

A subtle use of language : True Dogma is a set of principles laid down by an authority which we usually take as a religous authority

The use of Dogmatic or Dogmatically can be used to describe "expressing personal opinions or beliefs as if they are certainly correct and cannot be doubted" which could apply to describe the behaviour of folks holding subjects views on religion ( on anti-religon) , politics, society or even the inconvertable truth that the GB Packers will be crushed by two touchdowns tonight @ Seattle

dogma is a b*tch

Edited September 5, 2014 by Dan and Judy

[Protocol417 161]

Its hard to discuss atheism with anyone that is religious. Well, it seems that way to me. What's with atheists that form churches? I think people have some need to belong that apparently I'm missing. Atheism isn't inherently organized. I don't have a set of atheist rules I follow or books I read even if some do. I just really like scientific discussions and findings on the nature of the universe and I'm doubtful of anything I can't see. Which is odd because I believe in molecules even though I've never seen them and am, for the most part, putting faith in the math done by other people who I don't really have the mental fortitude to double check.

Speaking as an atheist that goes to a (Unitarian) church... yes, it is a need to belong. It's also nice to have some time set aside to reflect and learn (which is why I like Unitarian churches, because the "sermons" are often like enjoyable lectures). Plus the donuts are fantastic There are also some functions that churches perform pretty well, such as support for those who are suffering loss or breakdown of marriage, or who are just looking for advice or someone to talk to. You're not really missing anything... it's like if I had a craving for samosas that you didn't share

(I may or may not be craving samosas right now.)

That said, yes, it is difficult to discuss atheism with someone who is religious. It's funny because I just had this conversation with a coworker. She couldn't believe that I was an atheist, and told me about a friend of hers who's atheist as well (actually, he turned out to be agnostic) and she said that she couldn't understand that. I think her exact words were "well, then what do you BELIEVE?" I just kind of laughed and, knowing this wasn't going to be a perfect analogy, said "well, it's kind of like not believing in leprechauns or the Easter bunny. They're myths, and there's nothing wrong with myths. They're beautiful stories that we tell each other from generation to generation, and I think that's pretty cool. Doesn't mean they're real, of course, but you know, not believing in those things doesn't mean we stop experiencing awe."

[Dan and Judy 614]

Speaking as an atheist that goes to a (Unitarian) church... yes, it is a need to belong. It's also nice to have some time set aside to reflect and learn (which is why I like Unitarian churches, because the "sermons" are often like enjoyable lectures). Plus the donuts are fantastic There are also some functions that churches perform pretty well, such as support for those who are suffering loss or breakdown of marriage, or who are just looking for advice or someone to talk to. You're not really missing anything... it's like if I had a craving for samosas that you didn't share

(I may or may not be craving samosas right now.)

That said, yes, it is difficult to discuss atheism with someone who is religious. It's funny because I just had this conversation with a coworker. She couldn't believe that I was an atheist, and told me about a friend of hers who's atheist as well (actually, he turned out to be agnostic) and she said that she couldn't understand that. I think her exact words were "well, then what do you BELIEVE?" I just kind of laughed and, knowing this wasn't going to be a perfect analogy, said "well, it's kind of like not believing in leprechauns or the Easter bunny. They're myths, and there's nothing wrong with myths. They're beautiful stories that we tell each other from generation to generation, and I think that's pretty cool. Doesn't mean they're real, of course, but you know, not believing in those things doesn't mean we stop experiencing awe."

I've seen the Easter bunny and Leprechauns with my own eyes. They are real.

[Rob L 3,811]

I've seen the Easter bunny and Leprechauns with my own eyes. They are real.

I believe in both, they scare me. Did you see Leprechaun 3, the one in space?...could not sleep soundly for two weeks

[GandD 5,966]

What about leprechaun in the hood?

[Rob L 3,811]

"Lep in the Hood, come to do no good!" How could I forget , Coolios best moment evar. A full 2 tomatoes on Rotten Tomatoes...