Brother and sister accused of incest in Effingham

[Teddy B 17,252]

I base it on my extensive courses in Genetics in college. Is there a slight increase in risk after several generations, yes is there a 50% risk of some random birth defect after one generation.. LOL BS.

Here is a good article on the subject. A little Techie but worth the read. That is why I did not jump on the genetic thing. Increased risk yes. 50% no way

Lets say one parent carries the gene for colon cancer. Any child he has is going to have an increased risk. Should the govt tell him he can't breed ?

http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask243

The 50% wasn't just for birth defects, it was for any type of physical or intellectual disorder, including mental illness or defect.

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

50 fold and 50% are two very different animals. In the above example, both parents would have to be carriers, which would usually mean 2 or 3rd generation intermarrying, then the risk is 1 in 16. which puts the risk around 6% and that is only after several generations.

I am not arguing there is an increased risk. What I am saying is that the 50% chance of a birth defect is junk science.

You are right but that is 6% for one thing.. You have slight risk increases on 1000 different fronts. I can't argue exact percentages and there does not seem to be a huge issue with cousins but two siblings having kids is not healthy.

Maybe that's how they can pump out an X-man

[Teddy B 17,252]

You are right but that is 6% for one thing.. You have slight risk increases on 1000 different fronts. I can't argue exact percentages and there does not seem to be a huge issue with cousins but two siblings having kids is not healthy.

Maybe that's how they can pump out an X-man

Hey what's 6% percent between family?? Come over here sis!

[rlogan 2,036]

True, but I thought the question was being asked in real time, no? The main reason of the law to my knowledge is to prevent birth defects. Whether we have birth control and abortion doesn't really matter much, there would still be babies being born to siblings and some of them will have birth defects.

In real time? You'd have to explain what on earth that means. He asked a question. Today is the 29th of August, 2014. If you mean why is it illegal today - it is because the law has not been repealed despite circumstances drastically changing. Yes, people like to rationalize - make up any old logical fallacy to justify retention of archaic laws, which is what you are trying to do.

That was a real convoluted try, but the law itself (abstinence) is a form of birth control, silly. To say birth control has nothing to do with it is preposterous. It is also not 100% effective. People marry their 13 year old cousin or have sex with their sister anyway. The most famous case is probably Jerry Lee Lewis. He had married a 14 year old first, wasn't divorced yet, then married his 13 year old cousin, and had a baby boy right away. The law didn't stop the brother-sister incest in the story, don't you see.

I got fixted. I can't have kids. Good Lord I would rather be buried alive than do my sister. But her chances of pregnancy are zero. I think she's actually through menopause now too - so another example of 100% impossibility of pregnancy. Abortion is also 100% effective when any other method fails, including no method at all.

Notice how you have not offered any reason whatsoever that it should be illegal now, especially in light of how much more sexual liberty has been granted to other groups. I find sodomy uber-repulsive personally but it is over 30% now of the younger people doing it. I just can't see making on the order of a hundred million people criminals for that. Hunt them down, prosecute, and imprison them? What a waste of resources when we have so much higher crime to worry about like murder, armed robbery, and real forcible rapes.

Father - daughter? Lol. Nice try. Go straight to pedophilia, and paint anyone who thinks sex between consenting adults is the same thing as pedophilia. Lots of things make me feel icky inside, but I am not going to put consenting adults in jail for doing it and ruin their whole lives. Look at S&M for example - this is something that would get decades of hard time - tying people up and torturing them, perpetrating sexually sadistic stuff... but they are consenting adults.

If it is consenting adults and no third party harm - so what? If you want to make birth defects from incest a crime, then make that the crime. But don't prosecute consenting adults for which no birth is even possible.

[Teddy B 17,252]

In real time? You'd have to explain what on earth that means. He asked a question. Today is the 29th of August, 2014. If you mean why is it illegal today - it is because the law has not been repealed despite circumstances drastically changing. Yes, people like to rationalize - make up any old logical fallacy to justify retention of archaic laws, which is what you are trying to do.

That was a real convoluted try, but the law itself (abstinence) is a form of birth control, silly. To say birth control has nothing to do with it is preposterous. It is also not 100% effective. People marry their 13 year old cousin or have sex with their sister anyway. The most famous case is probably Jerry Lee Lewis. He had married a 14 year old first, wasn't divorced yet, then married his 13 year old cousin, and had a baby boy right away. The law didn't stop the brother-sister incest in the story, don't you see.

I got fixted. I can't have kids. Good Lord I would rather be buried alive than do my sister. But her chances of pregnancy are zero. I think she's actually through menopause now too - so another example of 100% impossibility of pregnancy. Abortion is also 100% effective when any other method fails, including no method at all.

Notice how you have not offered any reason whatsoever that it should be illegal now, especially in light of how much more sexual liberty has been granted to other groups. I find sodomy uber-repulsive personally but it is over 30% now of the younger people doing it. I just can't see making on the order of a hundred million people criminals for that. Hunt them down, prosecute, and imprison them? What a waste of resources when we have so much higher crime to worry about like murder, armed robbery, and real forcible rapes.

Father - daughter? Lol. Nice try. Go straight to pedophilia, and paint anyone who thinks sex between consenting adults is the same thing as pedophilia. Lots of things make me feel icky inside, but I am not going to put consenting adults in jail for doing it and ruin their whole lives. Look at S&M for example - this is something that would get decades of hard time - tying people up and torturing them, perpetrating sexually sadistic stuff... but they are consenting adults.

If it is consenting adults and no third party harm - so what? If you want to make birth defects from incest a crime, then make that the crime. But don't prosecute consenting adults for which no birth is even possible.

You like to make assumptions rlogan.

I stopped reading after the first paragraph. You full of something.

[Karee 4,191]

I find it odd that the two who are in favor of this have just skated right by the whole birth defect issue. Guess they're ok with it.

I didn't skate by anything. Sex does not equal pregnancy. There is birth control, abortion etc. Also, simply making a sex act by two consensual adults illegal, will do zero to stop it. As I stated in my previous post, I think it's pretty creepy and no I'm not ok with it, but that doesn't mean it should be illegal.

[Karee 4,191]

If a 30 year old brother wants to hook up with a 28 year old sister and they're both mentally competent, should it be illegal? Should it be illegal to marry a cousin?

No it should not IMO.

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

Hey what's 6% percent between family?? Come over here sis!

There was a "game show" I saw in the 90s (don't remember if it was real) where a contestant had to choose between two bad options. The one that sticks in my mind was "Do you want to make out with your mom or eat a booger sandwich?"

Edited August 29, 2014 by OnMyWayID

[Teddy B 17,252]

I didn't skate by anything. Sex does not equal pregnancy. There is birth control, abortion etc. Also, simply making a sex act by two consensual adults illegal, will do zero to stop it. As I stated in my previous post, I think it's pretty creepy and no I'm not ok with it, but that doesn't mean it should be illegal.

Really? I think the law does a pretty good job of it already.

There was a "game show" I saw in the 90s (don't remember if it was real) where a contestant had to choose between two bad options. The one that sticks in my mind was "Do you want to make out with your mom or eat a booger sandwich?"

I'll take boogers for $500.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The problem is that paedophilia and incest are linked. If its true that most victims of child abuse are abused by direct relatives (is there any reason to doubt this?) and the nature of the relationship means much of it goes unreported, wouldn't you question why a father and daughter (even of adult age), for example, would choose to have sex? Would you not think that there was something very off about the relationship from the beginning?

There's a difference between consenting to sex and submitting to it.

I'm not saying that there cannot be genuinely consensual incest relationships, but the laws against incest in general are in place to protect everyone else.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Hail Ming!

[Karee 4,191]

Really? I think the law does a pretty good job of it already.

You think laws are preventing adult relatives from getting it on? I'd say there's a moral thing going on there, rather than a legal one. At least I hope so anyway.

[Teddy B 17,252]

You think laws are preventing adult relatives from getting it on? I'd say there's a moral thing going on there, rather than a legal one. At least I hope so anyway.

Yes I do, but I agree it's a moral thing too.

[Karee 4,191]

I'm at work so it's something I don't really want to google, but I suspect if you looked up countries that have severe legal penalties for incest, and countries that have no penalties, you'd probably find the rates would be about equal.

I'd hope that in society we wouldn't need laws to tell us what's right and what's wrong. I know that walking up to someone on the street and punching someone in face is wrong. I don't need a law to tell me that. If they somehow made punching someone in the face legal, I doubt that it would happen more or less often than it does now.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Karee

[GandD 5,966]

The problem is that paedophilia and incest are linked. If its true that most victims of child abuse are abused by direct relatives (is there any reason to doubt this?) and the nature of the relationship means much of it goes unreported, wouldn't you question why a father and daughter (even of adult age), for example, would choose to have sex? Would you not think that there was something very off about the relationship from the beginning?

There's a difference between consenting to sex and submitting to it.

I'm not saying that there cannot be genuinely consensual incest relationships, but the laws against incest in general are in place to protect everyone else.

Wouldn't typical laws against statutory rape be good enough? Why have a separate one just for incest statutory rape?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Wouldn't typical laws against statutory rape be good enough? Why have a separate one just for incest statutory rape?

I don't think so, because I don't think its healthy for the government to pass laws that legitimise abuse. A father developing sexual feelings for his daughter (even if she's and adult) or siblings within the same family says to me that the nature of the relationship in the home was predatory. I don't think its healthy to legitimise a lifestyle that confuses the roles within the family when one of the parties in the relationship by definition has power over the other.

The only incest relationship I'm sympathetic to are the ones where people get together not knowing they are brother and sister. There was a couple like that I read about in Germany. The man went to jail for getting his sister/partner pregnant because that's the law. I don't think cases like that are worth prosecuting.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Hail Ming!