John Crawford Case: It’s Open Carry for Whites and Open Season on Blacks

[Karee 4,191]

The race/class divide is entirely the result of the racism of the past - that's pretty undeniable imo.

You think that (racism) is used as an excuse for a person's bad behaviour or personal failures. I agree, but that's different.

On the bolded, I agree that a person can move on and improve their situation. The caveat there however is that difficult circumstances don't lend themselves to positive outcomes. If you grew up in poverty, come from a broken family and see you friends and peers turn to crime - the odds of you getting out of that, while not impossible, are certainly stacked against you.

I guess will just have to disagree on the bolded part. If this was 1969 or even 1979, I'd probably agree with you. Not in 2014, no way. As to your last paragraph, it seems we're in 100% agreement on that. This is more of economic issue than anything IMO. You don't fix economic issues by making generation after generation of folks dependent on govt. You make them worse.

The real issue here is an economic issue. Being financially secure carries with it a sense of pride in people, and respect from others. I don't know if things should be that way, but that's how they are. That's what drives me insane when I see the TM/GZ deal or this Ferguson thing get all this attention. Those two things are pimples on a gnats azz in the scope of things.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I guess will just have to disagree on the bolded part. If this was 1969 or even 1979, I'd probably agree with you. Not in 2014, no way. As to your last paragraph, it seems we're in 100% agreement on that. This is more of economic issue than anything IMO. You don't fix economic issues by making generation after generation of folks dependent on govt. You make them worse.

The real issue here is an economic issue. Being financially secure carries with it a sense of pride in people, and respect from others. I don't know if things should be that way, but that's how they are. That's what drives me insane when I see the TM/GZ deal or this Ferguson thing get all this attention. Those two things are pimples on a gnats azz in the scope of things.

We can disagree, sure. I'm just saying that since black Americans weren't able to acquire wealth and property until the middle 1960s, that the socio-economic makeup of the present day still reflect this inequality. As I said before, I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that a group of people who were denied freedom for 200 years can achieve economic inequality in the space of a few decades.

I can certainly see that reliance on government assistance can create problems, that's obvious. But is the issue really that the government is offering assistance, or that the form that assistance takes isn't very effective?

[Karee 4,191]

We can disagree, sure. I'm just saying that since black Americans weren't able to acquire wealth and property until the middle 1960s, that the socio-economic makeup of the present day still reflect this inequality. As I said before, I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that a group of people who were denied freedom for 200 years can achieve economic inequality in the space of a few decades.

I can certainly see that reliance on government assistance can create problems, that's obvious. But is the issue really that the government is offering assistance, or that the form that assistance takes isn't very effective?

True that govt. assistance isn't necessarily a bad thing. I was on welfare as a kid for a year or two, and I've collected unemployment a couple times in my life. Not sure if unemployment counts as govt. assistance since employers pay for it. Anyway, you're absolutely right that they way govt. assistance is handed out now is very ineffective. There should be some strings tied to it that would make the person more employable or what have you. Not really sure how that should work.

[decocker 7,198]

gov't assistance is not really wired for improvement in financial status of it's recipients. that's why you have to maintain a certain level of poverty instead of having to prove you're getting yourself solidly back on your feet.

Edited August 27, 2014 by val erie

[lostinblue 1,989]

We can disagree, sure. I'm just saying that since black Americans weren't able to acquire wealth and property until the middle 1960s, that the socio-economic makeup of the present day still reflect this inequality. As I said before, I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that a group of people who were denied freedom for 200 years can achieve economic inequality in the space of a few decades.

I can certainly see that reliance on government assistance can create problems, that's obvious. But is the issue really that the government is offering assistance, or that the form that assistance takes isn't very effective?

Show us where a law said they were not allowed to own property...

[Karee 4,191]

gov't assistance is not really wired for improvement in financial status of it's recipients. that's why you have to maintain a certain level of poverty instead of having to prove you're getting yourself solidly back on your feet.

Something wrong with that.

I always think of a scene from that movie Million Dollar Baby where Hillary Swank's character buys her mom a house and the mother starts freaking out. "What about my welfare? What about my welfare!"

[decocker 7,198]

Something wrong with that.

I always think of a scene from that movie Million Dollar Baby where Hillary Swank's character buys her mom a house and the mother starts freaking out. "What about my welfare? What about my welfare!"

with all the people receiving some sort of benefit, it would be a difficult (expensive) thing to track. recipients would have to have actual case workers. most people don't want to pay to enhance the performance of our government assistance programs, only to get rid of them altogether or reduce them to a slow trickle so that recipients maintain an "acceptable" level of poverty with a bunch of paperwork to file and push.

[Karee 4,191]

with all the people receiving some sort of benefit, it would be a difficult (expensive) thing to track. recipients would have to have actual case workers. most people don't want to pay to enhance the performance of our government assistance programs, only to get rid of them altogether or reduce them to a slow trickle so that recipients maintain an "acceptable" level of poverty with a bunch of paperwork to file and push.

That seems totally ignorant and short-sighted to maintain an acceptable level of poverty. I'm no accountant, but it seems you would want people contributing to the treasury, instead of drawing from it on the most basic level, They should also do away with that EITC business. Or at least modify it so that it's not a net gain to the person filing taxes.

[decocker 7,198]

That seems totally ignorant and short-sighted to maintain an acceptable level of poverty. I'm no accountant, but it seems you would want people contributing to the treasury, instead of drawing from it on the most basic level, They should also do away with that EITC business. Or at least modify it so that it's not a net gain to the person filing taxes.

i've never understood the eitc but that's the only program i've ever benefited from. i don't think i've qualified for it since my son was very young and i technically didn't gain anything since i only had the one dependent and worked full time+. but it definitely turns a net gain for people with low income and a bunch of dependents. and for the most part that money goes right back into the market. if i were a conspiracy minded gal i might think that was intentional.

[Karee 4,191]

i've never understood the eitc but that's the only program i've ever benefited from. i don't think i've qualified for it since my son was very young and i technically didn't gain anything since i only had the one dependent and worked full time+. but it definitely turns a net gain for people with low income and a bunch of dependents. and for the most part that money goes right back into the market. if i were a conspiracy minded gal i might think that was intentional.

The govt. handing out money and getting nothing in return, thinking it will be a gain for the market/economy is a recipe for disaster. That's economic fail 101. Keep in mind we have almost a 17.6 trillion dollar debt. That's $55,000 per U.S. citizen.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Show us where a law said they were not allowed to own property...

Show us a post where you add relevance to this thread.

[decocker 7,198]

The govt. handing out money and getting nothing in return, thinking it will be a gain for the market/economy is a recipe for disaster. That's economic fail 101. Keep in mind we have almost a 17.6 trillion dollar debt. That's $55,000 per U.S. citizen.

and that debt is owed to..?

[Karee 4,191]

and that debt is owed to..?

Other countries, especially China. People that hold treasuries. They owe social security almost 3 trillion. It's scattered all over. It has to be paid back if that's where you were going.

[decocker 7,198]

Other countries, especially China. People that hold treasuries. They owe social security almost 3 trillion. It's scattered all over. It has to be paid back if that's where you were going.

not where i was going. i'll put the foil away.

[JohnR! 5,495]

If English were my first language, I'd say the post you're replying to is quite significant. I see similar behavior with other immigrants. They come to America envisioning dreams they were sold by Hollywood and when they arrive and begin adjusting to their new lives they realize the streets are not paved with cheese. They don't understand the inner workings of our society and as a result grow frustrated with their own decision, and compensate by lashing out at any minority du jour.

There should be a prep course for everyone planning on making a go for the American dream.

What I was talking about earlier - this is an example of it.

I get that you are frustrated by something that you don't understand, but rather than try to increase your understanding you start throwing out arguments that lean towards the bigoted side of the fence.

I'd suggest it might be better to try and find the answer to your questions, before you dole out judgement.

Edited August 28, 2014 by JohnR!