Racists attack man just for walking thru their neighborhood

[decocker 7,198]

I see American society, and most societies around the world, as a hierarchy of three groups. At the top is the 10% of the population that owns all of the wealth and controls all of the institutions. Within this group is an even smaller elite that really owns everything, but for the moment let's set that aside and take a slightly more expansive view of who is included among the Haves. The second group is the 75% of the population that exists in the margin between comfort and total ruin. This includes (unless some of you are wealthier than I realize) all of us who essentially live paycheck-to-paycheck or close thereto, from menial service industry jobs to well-compensated professionals. Even those of us who are doing well aren't truly wealthy, though, since we're never more than a stone's throw from ruin. The people who have real power compensate us because we're in some way economically useful to them, allowing them to make more money and/or live more leisurely lives. They also ensure that we graduate college with enough debt to be servile in perpetuity, in addition to or instead of running up enough credit card debt to keep us in a state of constant readiness to accept whatever terms of employment and existence they dictate. Here, have another payday loan and pre-approved Platinum Card.

The third group is the bottom 10-15% of society. To the people in power, these people serve no purpose. They have no economically valuable skills to exploit. You just have to get rid of them somehow. And that's what the War on Drugs is all about. In a society that doesn't want to pay to educate its population well or pay for a social safety net or strive for full, well paid employment as an economic policy goal, there are only two options for dealing with the third group. In many countries around the world the leaders can just send out death squads and various uniformed skull-crackers to physically eliminate them. The second option preferred by societies like ours that fancy themselves above such tactics is mass incarceration. And the nice part about incarceration, aside from appearing more Civilized and Proper, is that the ownership class can profit handsomely from it and you can pay some of the would-be useless people to lock up and watch the others.

We are very slowly beginning to dismantle the War on Drugs as an act of national policy faith. We are doing this, and I sincerely believe that within a decade or two it will be complete, for all the wrong reasons. We're moving toward sentencing reform and marijuana legalization not because our previous policies make no sense but because states cannot afford the gargantuan systems of incarceration, punishment, and monitoring that they built beginning in the 1970s. With large states spending literal billions annually to maintain their leviathan departments of "corrections", it is finally dawning on some formerly gung ho drug crusaders that filling the prisons, jails, and parole systems with non-violent drug offenders is remarkably expensive. Add to that the fact that cash-strapped state and local governments realize what a tax cash cow marijuana is and it seems clear now that the first few dominoes have fallen that drug legalization is going to continue to spread in the near future.

I wonder, then, what will be the new national policy toward the third group in society – the underclass for which there is no practical economic use. We sure as hell aren't investing in education to increase the balance of useful skills. We aren't creating more jobs, and in fact there are not enough to go around even for people who do have the skills and willingness to work these days. My guess – and this is why I've been talking about "Brazilification" of the American economy for years now – is that we will take that final step toward Second World status as a nation by allowing First World wealth and opulence to exist immediately alongside massive levels of desperate Third World poverty. Of course poverty is already visible in the U.S., but there is another level of economic and physical segregation – think Rio or Mexico City – of inequality for us to achieve. We see it already in places like Chicago where rich, perfectly safe neighborhoods are cordoned off by law enforcement and local government to coexist alongside poor neighborhoods that are essentially free fire zones where city services barely operate, infrastructure is crumbling, and the policing policy is "Call us when there is a corpse to pick up."

If we're not going to incarcerate or employ everyone and we have no intention of creating a social welfare system that allows people to live like human beings even if they lack the Puritan sacrament of daily toil for a soulless corporation, then there really is no other option.

(PS: Don't worry, we'll still incarcerate tons of people even if the WoD is scaled back. I promise.)

http://www.ginandtacos.com/2014/08/11/safety-net/

[LibCampFireClub 635]

so you have faith in our judicial and prison systems and the money behind it. i would have to assume that you don't give profiling any merit. i would also have to assume that you're a champion of big government, and trust our government to keep a watchful eye on all of these deserving criminals and keep them locked up.

I'm not a big government guy. In fact it's my belief that smaller government is a better thing. As for 'profiling', I think it's the best option in today's world. Due to complaints from the ACLU, we have created an environment that is so sensitive to offending someone, that law enforcement, border patrol, police, customs and so on, must inspect infants with the same frequency as people arriving from dangerous nations. Because it's fact that blacks dominate our prison population, it's also fact that they commit the majority of crime in America. For that reason, it's a lot more wise to watch them a lot more closely than others. If we all had the ability to create a criminal watch system that would proportionately watch a certain demographic more than another according to the statistical number of people caught violating US law, then, we might be a lot safer. However, we would be a lot less free.

Truly, I think it's heading down the wrong road to step across the line of illegal search and seizure. There must be probable cause. That means, if an officer stops you, they must have a reason that stands up to the "reasonable person" standard established by US law.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

So the question is? Are black people just drawn to be criminals, or is it something else behind it?

I'm thinkin' it is some type of genetic mutation that was secretly done by mad white scientists as an experiment that got out of control.

[Curmudgeon 227]

I am sure someone can dig out the figures, but along with the fact that more blacks are likely to be incarcerated at any one time than any other culture, more blacks live around or under the poverty line, and there is a high proportion of inmates who have committed a drug related offense. I am sure some of the more astute can work out that these figures have a correlation. There are far too many people incarcerated for non violent, drug related offenses. It would probably be cheaper and certainly be more productive to send these people to rehabilitation centers than jail.

[LibCampFireClub 635]

I am sure someone can dig out the figures, but along with the fact that more blacks are likely to be incarcerated at any one time than any other culture, more blacks live around or under the poverty line, and there is a high proportion of inmates who have committed a drug related offense. I am sure some of the more astute can work out that these figures have a correlation. There are far too many people incarcerated for non violent, drug related offenses. It would probably be cheaper and certainly be more productive to send these people to rehabilitation centers than jail.

Our prison population is huge compared to other countries. Some of that is caused by our higher crime rate, other parts by mandatory minimum sentences, and another part by non-violent criminal offenders. Excluding doing things under the influence of alcohol or other drug that harm others, or have the potential to, I am in favor of releasing the entire prison population of non-violent offenders. Still, the facts remain that blacks participate in the vast majority of violent crime. Segments of today's society do everything possible to deflect this fact and change the topic. Can it be fixed, or is it something that is just a part of humanity?

Edited August 23, 2014 by ExExpat

[Curmudgeon 227]

So the question is? Are black people just drawn to be criminals, or is it something else behind it?

If you want to look at the reason behind the high proportion of black people who are incarcerated in the US today, you'd not have to go much further than poverty as a major contributory cause. However, if you start to go there, most people will take the easy route and suggest that of course the work is there but blacks are too lazy to work because there is so much money to be made being a career criminal or living off government handouts. Very few people will bother to ask themselves how easy it is to escape systemic poverty, how easy it is to just walk away form your community, family, home, how easy it is to find inherited wealth, of even the very small amounts that allows the middle class to access extended education, within the black community? Most people are too busy worrying about how scary young black men are, how scary, how lazy, how thuggish and they just don't have time to imagine that maybe, just maybe there is a historic problem that doesn't disappear just because white people 50 years ago decided to extend full citizenship to their black counterparts.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Curmudgeon

[Curmudgeon 227]

Our prison population is huge compared to other countries. Some of that is caused by our higher crime rate, other parts by mandatory minimum sentences, and another part by non-violent criminal offenders. Excluding doing things under the influence of alcohol or other drug that harm others, or have the potential to, I am in favor of releasing the entire prison population of non-violent offenders. Still, the facts remain that blacks participate in the vast majority of violent crime. Segments of today's society do everything possible to deflect this fact and change the topic. Can it be fixed, or is it something that is just a part of humanity?

You think that black people have a greater propensity for violence perhaps? Based on what?

Other than that, yes, most people in US jails have no business being in jails, they are only there because of misguided policies. Worse than that, US jails are verminous places that are badly run and operated by people who have zero interest in the inmates.

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

Funny, I've lived in an all black neighborhood for 20 years, and still go back every weekend. Plenty of people don't have issues.

I call BS. No one lives in one place for 20 years in the military.

[LibCampFireClub 635]

You think that black people have a greater propensity for violence perhaps? Based on what?

I don't know. Do you know? I'm just looking at the facts and statistics that the black population in America is shown to have been convicted far more of violent crime than any other race. Because I'm a law and order focused person, I keep the crime separate from the reasons for someone committing it. First and foremost the black community has to get hold and accept these numbers and statistics and stop blaming them on everyone else. That might be a good start.

Edited August 23, 2014 by ExExpat

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I call BS. No one lives in one place for 20 years in the military.

Leavenworth?

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

Leavenworth?

If Marvin does not cut you I will.

[decocker 7,198]

I'm not a big government guy. In fact it's my belief that smaller government is a better thing. As for 'profiling', I think it's the best option in today's world. Due to complaints from the ACLU, we have created an environment that is so sensitive to offending someone, that law enforcement, border patrol, police, customs and so on, must inspect infants with the same frequency as people arriving from dangerous nations. Because it's fact that blacks dominate our prison population, it's also fact that they commit the majority of crime in America. For that reason, it's a lot more wise to watch them a lot more closely than others. If we all had the ability to create a criminal watch system that would proportionately watch a certain demographic more than another according to the statistical number of people caught violating US law, then, we might be a lot safer. However, we would be a lot less free.

Truly, I think it's heading down the wrong road to step across the line of illegal search and seizure. There must be probable cause. That means, if an officer stops you, they must have a reason that stands up to the "reasonable person" standard established by US law.

this. the environment that profiling creates for the people being profiled, in addition to the attitudes that develop from enforcement. the law becomes unequal, depending upon the demographic one fits. profiling ultimately creates more problems than it solves. at a minimum it creates second class citizens.

[LibCampFireClub 635]

this. the environment that profiling creates for the people being profiled, in addition to the attitudes that develop from enforcement. the law becomes unequal, depending upon the demographic one fits. profiling ultimately creates more problems than it solves. at a minimum it creates second class citizens.

You know, it would be unwise for me to say that I could ever begin to understand what it would be like to grow up black and rich. I do understand what it means to grow up poor however. No matter where you live in the world, growing up poor makes it a helluva lot harder to get out. But, it's not impossible. I behaved badly in my youth and got into trouble with the law plenty of times.

It's my deep rooted feeling that it's NOT the role of government to help 'second class citizens' get a leg up. That's the role of family, and role models.

[decocker 7,198]

You know, it would be unwise for me to say that I could ever begin to understand what it would be like to grow up black and rich. I do understand what it means to grow up poor however. No matter where you live in the world, growing up poor makes it a helluva lot harder to get out. But, it's not impossible. I behaved badly in my youth and got into trouble with the law plenty of times.

It's my deep rooted feeling that it's NOT the role of government to help 'second class citizens' get a leg up. That's the role of family, and role models.

i don't know what it's like to be on either end of the spectrum. i've never gone hungry a day in my life, my parents were married, my mom stayed home, my dad always worked. my dad started to loose it, got dui charges and such. i was very young and my dad caught himself before he completely lost everything. which would have been easy because my dad was just a pressman. didn't make much. anyway lots of people have a similar story but their mom or dad didn't get back on track. our generation, well mine, doesn't have a great record of family cohesiveness. and that's across all races. people, for the most part, do the best they can. and even for people who don't have good parental role models, it's possible for other people to fill those shoes. family is important, but family can be built. so that's not really the issue to me either.

my deep rooted feeling is that there should be no 'second class citizens' to begin with.

Edited August 23, 2014 by val erie

[LibCampFireClub 635]

i don't know what it's like to be on either end of the spectrum. i've never gone hungry a day in my life, my parents were married, my mom stayed home, my dad always worked. my dad started to loose it, got dui charges and such. i was very young and my dad caught himself before he completely lost everything. which would have been easy because my dad was just a pressman. didn't make much. anyway lots of people have a similar story but their mom or dad didn't get back on track. our generation, well mine, doesn't have a great record of family cohesiveness. and that's across all races. people, for the most part, do the best they can. and even for people who don't have good parental role models, it's possible for other people to fill those shoes. family is important, but family can be built. so that's not really the issue to me either.

my deep rooted feeling is that there should be no 'second class citizens' to begin with.

That ain't the real world no matter where you go. There are rich, there are poor, there are good, there are evil. All we can do is the best we can with the hand we are dealt. I had to reach outside my family to make my way. That was my only choice. I am forever grateful to those who helped along the way and provided a little guidance. We can see what happens when our government tries to help the poor and second class citizens. The best directions I even had in life were those that pointed me to my own bootstraps and a goal of something other than feeling sorry for myself.