Wal-Mart accused of consumer fraud

[Marilyn. 340]

Meh, I was going to continue this debate but it's pointless to argue with the WalMart shoppers who put low prices and convenience above values and morality. I'll leave with a few paragraphs from an article on Wal-Mart's business practices. Enjoy your low prices and convenience WalMart shoppers...

.. edited for length....

I still think it’s a strange argument to make about personal morality as it pertains to people’s shopping preferences at one store, regardless of its business practices when the free market economy thrives largely at the expense of ethics and morality – and is generally parasitic in nature.

Everyone participates in this to some degree. I mean, look at big tobacco and big oil. What about pharmaceuticals? None of these industries are spotless, but neither (except for tobacco) are they optional, and I really can’t see someone risking their health to take a “moral” stand on the ethics of pharmaceutical research by refusing to use for example, a specific heart medication because you don’t agree with the research and development practices of the company who owns the patent.

There are really no grounds for “moral” superiority. I guess I just don’t understand the argument

Good point and well said. However, I don't think Robert expressed a moral superiority, we all make consumer choices for varities of reasons. FOF (Focus On The Family) likes to boycott Ford and Disney for providing benefits for their gay employee's partners and thousands of Americans will join them. I've seen a lot of posts against PETA (People For The Ethical Treatment Of Animals) - even calling it a terrorist organization. Prior to the elections, both parties were engaged in a game of which candidate/party is more moral over another. Numerous posts have been made which express one person's moral or ethical convictions (Dogs being chained to stake for example) - is it not the basis for most opinions here? We all are making personal choices everyday - are they always ego centric or are they not also influenced by our sense of right and wrong?

There's nothing wrong with taking a principled stand against a particular company whose business activities you disagree with. Still you're on shaky ground if you try to project that moral stand on everyone else and use it as a basis for impugning them for "putting price/convenience above morals". As I said, if you buy almost any mass produced consumer product you're participating in a corporate system that does precisely that.

So is it really justifiable to say that someone who refuses to buy or consume Coca Cola products (for the huge range of criticisms against that company) is any less moral than someone who refuses to shop at Walmart but has no problem buying Coca Cola?

Maybe I missed that part because I didn't get that Robert was implying that at all.

That statement he made could be about anything made by anyone here, IMO. For example, "I don't understand why someone would have the gall to chain their dog to a stake and leave it there for hours unattended to." Or, "People who scream at their kids and call them names makes me sick." Aren't we all making value judgments? Does it imply a sense of righteousness? I suppose there's always an element of that, but that's what having different views grounded in different sets of values is all about. I hate smoking and I'm not shy about saying I hate it. If I said to a smoker, "Smoking is disgusting and makes me sick," I'm moralizing in some way but I don't think a smoker would or should feel they are being attacked. It's just expressing an opinion.

I'm sorry this thread took a nasty turn - it's too bad that people couldn't have just left it alone since the argument just became circular.

I am still not sure of the connection between choosing where to shop and tying dogs to a fence or screaming at your kids or buying stuff made out of dog fur is.... could someone explain this to me??

I really don't base my decision on where to shop on my morals and values, I base it on where I can get the best deal....

I don't do a lot of my shopping at Walmart either... mainly toiletry stuff... I do most of my grocery shopping at Albertsons or Superior...

I really don't see where Walmart is doing anything horribly wrong... they are doing what most big businesses do, they like to make money.....

Marilyn, you and I have NEVER gotten into a heated debate nor do I wish to - you've always been amicable and pleasant to everyone. Like you, I'm stating my opinion and based on what I read, at least to a point, Robert was expressing his opinion. Everyone has opinions about something and those opinions are often based on value judgments. You happen to not think that shopping can be impacted by ones value judgment and that's where we can agree to disagree. I tried to use the example of buying something made from the hide of a cat or dog - if you chose to buy that product it is your right but I don't think you'd be so keen as defending that right in that case because of the type of public scrutiny that it would bring about (most people would be outraged over that kind of product). I understand your point-of-view - you don't think that your choice of where you buy a product or what that product is should be influence by the unethical business practices of that company. So again, at this point we'll have to agree to disagree.

I am hoping that I haven't been anything but that in this thread.... to the best of my knowledge, I haven't called anybody names or attacked anybody because that is not who I am...

I was just sticking up for myself... if there is something wrong with that then, I am sorry...

I just starting feeling like that because I didn't agree with Robor opinions on Walmart I was a bad person.... everyone is entitled to their own opinions but he should have stayed away from making it personal.....

[one...two...tree 2,762]

everyone is entitled to their own opinions but he should have stayed away from making it personal.....

Amen.

[Sinergy 3]

for someone who was "through" with this thread sure does like to come back and call ppl shhh i cant say it , i dont want to be introuble anyway, are you coming back and responding, hatefully i may add, bc you just cant stand ppl having their opinions and you not jumping on them for it? or do you just love to see if your name has been mentioned and when it has you get that burning sensation in your chest and HAVE to let it out??

The fact of the matter is, if you dont care and you are through with this thread, why do you keep coming back to insult MORE ppl you dont know. And i seriously doubt you got alot of pm's about "beware of the wicked witch lisad" i mean, cmon, i dont think so.

Seriously if your done with the thread then be done with it and let us adults continue to productivly discuss the walmart issue without being called whores and whatever else you called LisaD. shame shame and you called US immature.

everyone is entitled to their own opinions but he should have stayed away from making it personal.....

Amen.

I second that Amen

[Fandango 1,440]

SOME PEOPLE shop at WM...that DOES not give anyone the right to use this fact alone to consider someone of low moral standards. When someone judges someone like that, it's personal.

Everyone has his/her own opinion...but jeez...this is ridiculous.

[Sinergy 3]

SOME PEOPLE shop at WM...that DOES not give anyone the right to use this fact alone to consider someone of low moral standards. When someone judges someone like that, it's personal.

Everyone has his/her own opinion...but jeez...this is ridiculous.

But we cant feel that way lisa, as he pointed out many times, one time calling you something im SURE your NOT.

[Ban Hammer 13,677]

But we cant feel that way lisa, as he pointed out many times, one time calling you something im SURE your NOT.

quiet? reserved?

[Fandango 1,440]

SOME PEOPLE shop at WM...that DOES not give anyone the right to use this fact alone to consider someone of low moral standards. When someone judges someone like that, it's personal.

Everyone has his/her own opinion...but jeez...this is ridiculous.

But we cant feel that way lisa, as he pointed out many times, one time calling you something im SURE your NOT.

and God forbid two or more females agree on something, then it's a 'sewing circle'

which is sexist bollocks, but that's really besides the point.

You know what really just pizzes me off about this topic? The absolute unmitigated gall of people to judge someone so harshly. I worked with a single mother of two that had NO help from her children's father. Her job barely covered her child care bills. Yet she slogged her guts out working, trying to give those kids the best and most normal life as possible. Which included shopping at WM.

For anyone here to not see what a Godsend WM was to her, and to call people like her 'amoral' is just so unbelievably ignorant.

When anyone here wants to buy my food for me, they can buy it wherever they want.

[Sinergy 3]

But we cant feel that way lisa, as he pointed out many times, one time calling you something im SURE your NOT.

quiet? reserved?

ofcorse

SOME PEOPLE shop at WM...that DOES not give anyone the right to use this fact alone to consider someone of low moral standards. When someone judges someone like that, it's personal.

Everyone has his/her own opinion...but jeez...this is ridiculous.

But we cant feel that way lisa, as he pointed out many times, one time calling you something im SURE your NOT.

and God forbid two or more females agree on something, then it's a 'sewing circle'

which is sexist bollocks, but that's really besides the point.

You know what really just pizzes me off about this topic? The absolute unmitigated gall of people to judge someone so harshly. I worked with a single mother of two that had NO help from her children's father. Her job barely covered her child care bills. Yet she slogged her guts out working, trying to give those kids the best and most normal life as possible. Which included shopping at WM.

For anyone here to not see what a Godsend WM was to her, and to call people like her 'amoral' is just so unbelievably ignorant.

When anyone here wants to buy my food for me, they can buy it wherever they want.

Agreed!! i was a single mother for 8 years, and WM saved me when it came to diapers and clothes and food. and for the record, i have a very wealthy family and all of them save at WM

[Fandango 1,440]

la la laaaaaaaa I'm not listening!

[Saddle Bronc 124]

...

You know what really just pizzes me off about this topic? The absolute unmitigated gall of people to judge someone so harshly. I worked with a single mother of two that had NO help from her children's father. Her job barely covered her child care bills. Yet she slogged her guts out working, trying to give those kids the best and most normal life as possible. Which included shopping at WM.

For anyone here to not see what a Godsend WM was to her, and to call people like her 'amoral' is just so unbelievably ignorant.

...

I see you're using the (mistaken) American definition of "amoral" here.

The correct word is actually "IMmoral".

Unless you work for (or own) one of its competitors, shopping at WM is amoral (not an action to be judged).

[Sinergy 3]

and im off to my cousins funeral. have fun here guys

and LisaD stop being all that stuff robor called ya or i wont finish that pink sweater with the large L knitted on it

[Fandango 1,440]

...

You know what really just pizzes me off about this topic? The absolute unmitigated gall of people to judge someone so harshly. I worked with a single mother of two that had NO help from her children's father. Her job barely covered her child care bills. Yet she slogged her guts out working, trying to give those kids the best and most normal life as possible. Which included shopping at WM.

For anyone here to not see what a Godsend WM was to her, and to call people like her 'amoral' is just so unbelievably ignorant.

...

I see you're using the (mistaken) American definition of "amoral" here.

The correct word is actually "IMmoral".

Unless you work for (or own) one of its competitors, shopping at WM is amoral (not an action to be judged).

Are you kidding me here?

kthxbye

Ionescu, sorry about your cousin and you'd best hurry with my sweater damnit!

[Robor007 0]

I am hoping that I haven't been anything but that in this thread.... to the best of my knowledge, I haven't called anybody names or attacked anybody because that is not who I am...

I was just sticking up for myself... if there is something wrong with that then, I am sorry...

I just starting feeling like that because I didn't agree with Robor opinions on Walmart I was a bad person.... everyone is entitled to their own opinions but he should have stayed away from making it personal.....

I didn't make it personal. The original quote where I stated something to the gist of not debating with people who put prices/convenience above morals/values only applies if they do that. If you, or anyone else for that matter, were offended by it then please examine why. If you don't agree with WalMart's business practices and shop there anyway you definitely put their prices & convenience above your stance. That's not even debatable. There was another thread a bit ago about Microsoft in a similar vein. In that thread Microsoft was labeled as evil (you included) but I don't think a single person replied saying they weren't using Microsoft products. Do you not see the hypocrisy there?

I'm neither a Microsoft hater or supporter. They aren't a perfect company but they are far from the 'Evil Empire' they're portrayed as. Most people who say that can't even tell you why they feel that way. How do I know? I work in the IT industry and I hear it all the time. I ask them why and the most common response is, 'they're a monopoly'. Maybe, maybe not. Either way, there are other choices, especially in the home market. Users can choose Apple or Linux or BSD. I use Microsoft products, especially at work, but I'm posting this from a Linux machine that has a legal WinXP Pro license. I'm using Linux out of choice - because I prefer Linux - not because I hate Microsoft or consider them evil. So to those who hate MS, why continue to use their products? Why support them by giving them money? There are other options.

I apply the same logic to where I get my gas. I learned (was told by a friends) that Citgo stations get their gas from Venezuela. Well, I think Chavez is a freaking whack job so I go elsewhere - usually Shell. If I learn something bad about Shell or one of the other companies I'll avoid them and go somewhere else. Maybe some find it strange that I choose to take a personal stand against companies I disagree with. Maybe that's a very simplistic view. If so, I don't see it that way and it's my choice.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Are you kidding me here?

kthxbye

No, Americans (and Canadians) too-oft use "amoral" (NOT moral--as in you cannot say right or wrong) for "immoral" (clearly wrong).

(also, to be a real CF here, the definition of the bowdlerised "pizz.." is also different outside of North Americal--where "pizzed" means "drunk").

[Fandango 1,440]

Are you kidding me here?

kthxbye

No, Americans (and Canadians) too-oft use "amoral" (NOT moral--as in you cannot say right or wrong) for "immoral" (clearly wrong).

(also, to be a real CF here, the definition of the bowdlerised "pizz.." is also different outside of North Americal--where "pizzed" means "drunk").

amoral...WITHOUT morals

immoral...wrong.

and really...a grammer pizzing contest? really?