"Stop blaming Israel and wake up: The black flag of jihad is the REAL threat to the world"

[OriZ 3,157]

They can go off topic all they want, I don't care, talk about whatever you want.

This is not 80 pages but worth a read.

For four decades, a multinational United Nations mission has quietly monitored the sleepy Golan Heights - providing a symbol of stability between bitter enemies as it enforced a truce between Israel and Syria.

But as Syria has plunged into civil war and the peacekeepers themselves have become targets of al-Qaeda-linked rebels, the UN observer force has begun to fall apart, leaving its future - and the prospects for ever establishing peace in this rugged area of the Middle East - in doubt.

Since Israel seized the Golan Heights from Syria in the 1967 Six-Day War, a withdrawal from the strategic plateau was seen as the key to any peace agreement. But as Syria continues to disintegrate, the odds of Israel giving up the Golan - never a popular prospect among Israelis - appear to be dimming by the day.

The downfall of the international mission known as UNDOF is a vivid illustration of the uncertain situation across the border - and in the eyes of many Israelis, it underscores why they can never relinquish the Golan.

The force suffered its latest blow earlier this month when the al-Qaeda-linked Nusra Front seized the strategic Quneitra border crossing from UNDOF, sent a contingent of Filipino peacekeepers scrambling for safety in Israel and took 45 Fijian peacekeepers hostage.

Although the Fijians were released unharmed two weeks later, it was the fourth abduction of peacekeepers since March 2013, and several countries have withdrawn their troops from the mission.

The 1,200-strong UN force is now mostly huddled inside Camp Ziouani, a drab base just inside the Israeli side of the Golan Heights. Its patrols along the de facto border have all but ceased, the road to the nearby Syrian town of Quneitra is blocked by barbed wire, and the fields opposite the base are blackened by fires set off from wayward mortar rounds launched from the Syrian side.

The entrance gate to the UN base in Quneitra

With Syria in tatters, UNDOF's viability is now in question. "Their mandate is just not relevant anymore," said Stephane Cohen, a former Israeli military liaison officer with UNDOF. "They are there to oversee an agreement between two countries - Israel and Syria - and in practice there is no Syria anymore."

That endangers a status quo that - despite a formal state of war between Israel and Syria - is widely regarded as convenient. Since the aftermath of the 1973 Yom Kippur War, the Golan has been the quietest of Israel's front lines, a place of hiking trails, bird-watching and winery tours. Constantly looming in the background was the prospect of the Golan eventually returning to Syria as part of a peace accord.

A plateau that looms over northern Israel, the Golan is considered by Israelis to be vital to their security. Lush and verdant for much of the year, it boasts the snow-capped Hermon Mountain and the country's only ski resort. The attachment to the Golan is such that Israelis tend to hardly view it as occupied - and, indeed, the area, unlike the West Bank, has been formally annexed.

Despite this, the sides have been negotiating on and off for much of the past two decades, and even reportedly came close to a deal in 2000. Indirect talks between Israel and Syria took place as recently as six years ago. Underpinning that ambition was the sense that peace with Syria would yield significant benefits in terms of Israel's legitimacy in the region - and that President Bashar Assad's government would be a strong partner capable of enforcing the peace.

That seems like ancient history now, with Assad's forces bogged down in an intractable civil war that has already killed at least 190,000 people. Israel has largely stayed on the sidelines of Syria's conflict. But Israeli leaders appear increasingly nervous about the possibility of al-Qaeda-affiliated rebels occupying the high ground over northern Israel.

A shell bombing at the Israeli side of the border following Syrian overspill (Photo: EPA)

That prospect has pushed the notion of a future Israeli withdrawal from everyone's mind, said Eyal Zisser, a Syria expert at Tel Aviv University. All Israel can do now is "sit quietly, keep our distance and hope," he said.

The IDF would not comment about its deployment, but officials say it is the most robust since 1973. The most obvious manifestation is a new 6-meter (20-foot) tall border fence topped with barbed wire and bristling with sophisticated anti-infiltration devices.

The traditional flock of tourists has slowed considerably and one of the main draws these days is a front row seat to watch the fighting taking place inside Syria. Atop scenic Mount Bental, Israelis and foreigners gawked one recent day as the sound of a large explosion echoed across the way, sending up a large plume of smoke in the distance.

Having abandoned their vulnerable positions inside Syria, UN observers have also retreated to the mountaintop lookout. A pair of uniformed soldiers observed the situation from the Israeli side using a long-range scope. UN officials say they remain committed to maintaining the force.

UNDOF solders at the Israeli-Syrian border watching the battles in Quneitra (Photo: Reuters)

The new reality is perhaps most jarring for the Golan's 22,000 Druse residents, who have found themselves trapped in the middle. Followers of an offshoot of Islam, the Druse have mostly continued to identify as Syrian even after years of Israeli rule that has seen them become fluent in Hebrew.

They still have relatives in Syria, and the Quneitra crossing has served as a direct channel to Syria for students attending university in Damascus and for brides crossing over to marry fellow Druse. Those movements have slowed considerably as the fighting has increased.

The Druse have survived in a turbulent region by typically showing allegiance to their country of residence. Some 100,000 Druse from inside Israel are loyal citizens and have produced senior officers in its military.

Those on the Golan tread a fine line. Unlike their brethren in the rest of Israel, few have taken up citizenship - an option they were offered after Israel annexed the territory in 1981 - and at least in public have backed Assad's regime as their one-day savior.

But over the past three years, opinions have begun to fluctuate, with anger over the high death toll in Syria mixing with concern over the fate of their Syrian relatives and a new realization that their future looks brightest with Israel.

"Most of the residents support the rebellion against the Assad regime but do not support the terrorist groups that have been riding its wave," said Dolan Abu Saleh, the mayor of Majdal Shams, the largest of four Druse towns on the Israeli side of the disputed frontier.

"The truth is that people are happy to be living under Israeli rule and the Golan today is Israeli," he said. "If somehow there is a situation where Syria becomes a democratic state then the residents here will think about being a part of that dream."

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4572449,00.html

And I will add - you see what's happening in Syria, you see what happened in Gaza...there is no way there could be an Israeli withdrawal from the WB without first making sure all the necessary steps are taken to make sure it doesn't repeat itself there. I, for one, and it seems the Druze in the Israeli part of the Golan too, seem quite content with the fact a deal was not reached in 2000. Where would we all be today with that land in Al-Qaeda's hands...

[Karee 4,191]

You are predictable. I'll give you that.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

This thread needs to die. It smells like an unflushed toilet.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You folks are going off topic. Oriz will be along shortly to punish you for doing so, with an 80 page Israeli propaganda piece.

As sure as the "Amen" in church. Nonetheless, you nailed it!

They can go off topic all they want, I don't care, talk about whatever you want.

This is not 80 pages but worth a read.

For four decades, a multinational United Nations mission has quietly monitored the sleepy Golan Heights - providing a symbol of stability between bitter enemies as it enforced a truce between Israel and Syria.

But as Syria has plunged into civil war and the peacekeepers themselves have become targets of al-Qaeda-linked rebels, the UN observer force has begun to fall apart, leaving its future - and the prospects for ever establishing peace in this rugged area of the Middle East - in doubt.

Since Israel seized the Golan Heights from Syria in the 1967 Six-Day War, a withdrawal from the strategic plateau was seen as the key to any peace agreement. But as Syria continues to disintegrate, the odds of Israel giving up the Golan - never a popular prospect among Israelis - appear to be dimming by the day.

The downfall of the international mission known as UNDOF is a vivid illustration of the uncertain situation across the border - and in the eyes of many Israelis, it underscores why they can never relinquish the Golan.

The force suffered its latest blow earlier this month when the al-Qaeda-linked Nusra Front seized the strategic Quneitra border crossing from UNDOF, sent a contingent of Filipino peacekeepers scrambling for safety in Israel and took 45 Fijian peacekeepers hostage.

Although the Fijians were released unharmed two weeks later, it was the fourth abduction of peacekeepers since March 2013, and several countries have withdrawn their troops from the mission.

The 1,200-strong UN force is now mostly huddled inside Camp Ziouani, a drab base just inside the Israeli side of the Golan Heights. Its patrols along the de facto border have all but ceased, the road to the nearby Syrian town of Quneitra is blocked by barbed wire, and the fields opposite the base are blackened by fires set off from wayward mortar rounds launched from the Syrian side.

The entrance gate to the UN base in Quneitra

With Syria in tatters, UNDOF's viability is now in question. "Their mandate is just not relevant anymore," said Stephane Cohen, a former Israeli military liaison officer with UNDOF. "They are there to oversee an agreement between two countries - Israel and Syria - and in practice there is no Syria anymore."

That endangers a status quo that - despite a formal state of war between Israel and Syria - is widely regarded as convenient. Since the aftermath of the 1973 Yom Kippur War, the Golan has been the quietest of Israel's front lines, a place of hiking trails, bird-watching and winery tours. Constantly looming in the background was the prospect of the Golan eventually returning to Syria as part of a peace accord.

A plateau that looms over northern Israel, the Golan is considered by Israelis to be vital to their security. Lush and verdant for much of the year, it boasts the snow-capped Hermon Mountain and the country's only ski resort. The attachment to the Golan is such that Israelis tend to hardly view it as occupied - and, indeed, the area, unlike the West Bank, has been formally annexed.

Despite this, the sides have been negotiating on and off for much of the past two decades, and even reportedly came close to a deal in 2000. Indirect talks between Israel and Syria took place as recently as six years ago. Underpinning that ambition was the sense that peace with Syria would yield significant benefits in terms of Israel's legitimacy in the region - and that President Bashar Assad's government would be a strong partner capable of enforcing the peace.

That seems like ancient history now, with Assad's forces bogged down in an intractable civil war that has already killed at least 190,000 people. Israel has largely stayed on the sidelines of Syria's conflict. But Israeli leaders appear increasingly nervous about the possibility of al-Qaeda-affiliated rebels occupying the high ground over northern Israel.

A shell bombing at the Israeli side of the border following Syrian overspill (Photo: EPA)

That prospect has pushed the notion of a future Israeli withdrawal from everyone's mind, said Eyal Zisser, a Syria expert at Tel Aviv University. All Israel can do now is "sit quietly, keep our distance and hope," he said.

The IDF would not comment about its deployment, but officials say it is the most robust since 1973. The most obvious manifestation is a new 6-meter (20-foot) tall border fence topped with barbed wire and bristling with sophisticated anti-infiltration devices.

The traditional flock of tourists has slowed considerably and one of the main draws these days is a front row seat to watch the fighting taking place inside Syria. Atop scenic Mount Bental, Israelis and foreigners gawked one recent day as the sound of a large explosion echoed across the way, sending up a large plume of smoke in the distance.

Having abandoned their vulnerable positions inside Syria, UN observers have also retreated to the mountaintop lookout. A pair of uniformed soldiers observed the situation from the Israeli side using a long-range scope. UN officials say they remain committed to maintaining the force.

UNDOF solders at the Israeli-Syrian border watching the battles in Quneitra (Photo: Reuters)

The new reality is perhaps most jarring for the Golan's 22,000 Druse residents, who have found themselves trapped in the middle. Followers of an offshoot of Islam, the Druse have mostly continued to identify as Syrian even after years of Israeli rule that has seen them become fluent in Hebrew.

They still have relatives in Syria, and the Quneitra crossing has served as a direct channel to Syria for students attending university in Damascus and for brides crossing over to marry fellow Druse. Those movements have slowed considerably as the fighting has increased.

The Druse have survived in a turbulent region by typically showing allegiance to their country of residence. Some 100,000 Druse from inside Israel are loyal citizens and have produced senior officers in its military.

Those on the Golan tread a fine line. Unlike their brethren in the rest of Israel, few have taken up citizenship - an option they were offered after Israel annexed the territory in 1981 - and at least in public have backed Assad's regime as their one-day savior.

But over the past three years, opinions have begun to fluctuate, with anger over the high death toll in Syria mixing with concern over the fate of their Syrian relatives and a new realization that their future looks brightest with Israel.

"Most of the residents support the rebellion against the Assad regime but do not support the terrorist groups that have been riding its wave," said Dolan Abu Saleh, the mayor of Majdal Shams, the largest of four Druse towns on the Israeli side of the disputed frontier.

"The truth is that people are happy to be living under Israeli rule and the Golan today is Israeli," he said. "If somehow there is a situation where Syria becomes a democratic state then the residents here will think about being a part of that dream."

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4572449,00.html

And I will add - you see what's happening in Syria, you see what happened in Gaza...there is no way there could be an Israeli withdrawal from the WB without first making sure all the necessary steps are taken to make sure it doesn't repeat itself there. I, for one, and it seems the Druze in the Israeli part of the Golan too, seem quite content with the fact a deal was not reached in 2000. Where would we all be today with that land in Al-Qaeda's hands...

[Expat1 971]

People are people. People have their own opinions doesn't matter what they are. I'm surprised I even have to tell you this, but then again maybe I'm not surprised. Them being holocaust survivors doesn't make them any better, smarter or more knowledgeable. You'll find every opinion in every race religion and nationality. Duh.

There is no "Palestinian genocide" and that comment alone shows how much they know and discredits anything else they say. If Israel is committing genocide it is the worst country the world has ever known at committing genocide. Slacking really bad letting the Palestinian population grow 7 fold in just a few decades.

Of course you believe that. You blow off the Muslims who call for help under the Israeli occupation. You blow off the Christians who call for help under Israeli occupation. You blow off the clerics and ministers who comment that it is becoming a routine experience to be spit on in Israeli streets. You blow off the fact that there are cities and communities in Israel that do not allow or tolerate practice of any other religion. You blow off a legal system that operates two different sets of standards and laws for Israeli citizens - one set for jewish citizens and one set for non-Jewish citizens. You blow off your own soldiers who speak up and describe illegal actions that they are ordered to do in the occupied territories. You blow off limiting food supplies to a whole people based on a "calorie per person" calculation. You blow off seizure of land and property that has been deemed Illegal by the UN. You blow off the historical use of terrorism to create the Israeli state.

You can blow it off, minimize it, and excuse it but you have been unable to deny it.

So naturally - you are not expected to know that people who lived through and survived the Holocaust actually ARE more knowledgeable about practices, legal systems, and treatment of others that led up to the holocaust. I however believe that they are.

I believe that turning in a medal for helping Jews survive the holocaust and issuing a statement condemning Israeli policies in Gaza by survivors of the holocaust speak volumes about what the nation of Israel is and what values that nation represents and they are not ours.

I look at all of these different groups. They are all independent. None of them have anything to do with one another. They all say the same thing. The stories are consistent. That makes you and the sources of your propaganda what?

Edited September 19, 2014 by Expat1

[Expat1 971]

As sure as the "Amen" in church. Nonetheless, you nailed it!

Ima start getting my fantasy football picks from Karee

[Expat1 971]

And I will add - you see what's happening in Syria, you see what happened in Gaza...there is no way there could be an Israeli withdrawal from the WB without first making sure all the necessary steps are taken to make sure it doesn't repeat itself there. I, for one, and it seems the Druze in the Israeli part of the Golan too, seem quite content with the fact a deal was not reached in 2000. Where would we all be today with that land in Al-Qaeda's hands...

Here is what I got out of that long post:

blah blah blah blah blah there is no way there could be an Israeli withdrawal from the WB

We would actually read your posts if you would just get to the point. The 80-pages of reasons not to let go of stolen land and not to stop oppressing the people it was stolen from are not necessary. We get it. You believe that their property "abandoned" 60-70 years ago is actually a 2000 year old "entitlement" to return property that was "abandoned" (which is code for flattened by the roman army right?) 2000 years ago.

Just save time and say it. It's still wrong, but it would be nice to just get to the point.

[Expat1 971]

Chill out OriZ!

Depeche Mode - those were good times!

This thread needs to die. It smells like an unflushed toilet.

Must be the shiploads of fertilizer dumped into the thread every few posts. Told that boy to go into farming a long time ago. His crop yield would be off the charts.

[Expat1 971]

How many murdered because they would not convert to Christianity or left the religion of Christianity? If you are going to go with "Christianity" can we also go with "Islam" and remove the radical part since it seems ok to lump them together on one side its only fair to lump them together on the other.

People focus on radical Islam because by orders of magnitude it is much much worse.

http://www.ironmaidencommentary.com/?url=album10_xfactor/inquisition〈=eng&link=albums

Much worse. You sure?

Link is to a nice summary of the inquisition. Even Galileo wasn't pardoned until John Paul II "pardoned" him. We are talking about people who would behead someone who thought the world was round.

Not really the shining standard of humanity. 600 years of torture, murder, beheadings, burning alive, forced conversions.....we even burned alive a few "witches for Jesus" in our own country.

I'm pretty sure bringing up the topic of forced conversions and Christianity isn't getting far.

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

http://www.ironmaidencommentary.com/?url=album10_xfactor/inquisition〈=eng&link=albums

Much worse. You sure?

Link is to a nice summary of the inquisition. Even Galileo wasn't pardoned until John Paul II "pardoned" him. We are talking about people who would behead someone who thought the world was round.

Not really the shining standard of humanity. 600 years of torture, murder, beheadings, burning alive, forced conversions.....we even burned alive a few "witches for Jesus" in our own country.

I'm pretty sure bringing up the topic of forced conversions and Christianity isn't getting far.

Right.. That would be very relevant if this was hundreds of years ago.. But it is today. We are talking about today, the present, here and now: As in our lifetimes.. Being stupid in the past is not a defense of being stupid today though it should serve as a lesson. When I said "Christianity used to be the worst - maybe the worst that ever was" I was not being sarcastic.

That was then, this is now.. All those things you mentioned: murder, beheadings, burning alive, forced conversions.. they are happening TODAY. The fact that another group of morons in another religion did it in the past doesn't mean it is not bat sh*t crazy today.

So yeah.. very very sure. It feels silly to have to have the conversation to tell you the truth.

[Expat1 971]

Right.. That would be very relevant if this was hundreds of years ago.. But it is today. We are talking about today, the present, here and now: As in our lifetimes.. Being stupid in the past is not a defense of being stupid today though it should serve as a lesson. When I said "Christianity used to be the worst - maybe the worst that ever was" I was not being sarcastic.

That was then, this is now.. All those things you mentioned: murder, beheadings, burning alive, forced conversions.. they are happening TODAY. The fact that another group of morons in another religion did it in the past doesn't mean it is not bat sh*t crazy today.

So yeah.. very very sure. It feels silly to have to have the conversation to tell you the truth.

Actions of neither are justified.

A war is going to be thrown down here. It's just a matter of time when it starts. When it does, the troops on the ground, on both sides, on both sides, will be Muslim.

[rlogan 2,036]

So I guess I'm going to try again...

Valarie, Big Dog, Rlogan.. You all said this was BS and not just a little but extremely.. I'm asking again.. What exactly here is it that you find wrong? Please rlogan not another general rant - that is beyond easy, weak and avoiding the question.. about the man or yet another non-answer.. You all said this video was clear BS.. WHAT exactly is the BS in this video?

What is B.S. is you, cheerleading the quote-mining of the ridiculous self-contradictory ####### in any religion and thinking you can manipulate me into fear with it. Maher is an expert at false framing. False dichotomies. This is a perfect example.

I do not have to give respect where it doesn't belong - to logical fallacies. The correct framing is that the religion doesn't matter. What matters is keeping religion out of government. Look at all that LSD-trip type gibberish in Revelations that so fawns over Armageddon. Bring on Armageddon so that Jesus can come back.. It is something like 30% of our country that actually believes that.

That is way, way more dangerous TO ME. and to AMERICANS - than what Maher is concerned about, namely promoting the Greater Israel and getting Americans to hate the enemies of Israel. I will not be duped by the likes of this bigoted entertainer.

Edited September 19, 2014 by rlogan

[Jacque67 7,328]

Depeche Mode - those were good times!

Must be the shiploads of fertilizer dumped into the thread every few posts. Told that boy to go into farming a long time ago. His crop yield would be off the charts.

So my grandchildren keep telling me

[decocker 7,198]

So my grandchildren keep telling me

they're right!

[sandinista! 1,816]

I have nothing to contribute but further gushing over the likes of dépêche mode. They're one of the best live shows I've ever seen.