"Stop blaming Israel and wake up: The black flag of jihad is the REAL threat to the world"

[LibCampFireClub 635]

Wait wait... Which of the groups *do* want peace?

Victims who fire rockets and hide behind women and children?

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

I'd say the folks running things in the West Bank (Fatah) have tried to work towards peace with Israel. What have they gotten in return. Zip, zilch, nada. Not only that, Israel has continued to expand the illegal settlements in the West Bank. Continued the military occupation etc. etc. That's what happens when you try to have peace with Israel, you're rewarded with more theft of land. I'm sure the folks in Gaza saw this, and now there's Hamas to deal with.

OK Fatah.. Is it possible to reach a deal with Fatah and have it be meaningful? If Israel was sincere and wanted peace could it make a deal with Fatah who also was sincere and wanted peace - could that be implemented for the benefit of both? Does Fatah have the power (political and otherwise) to make a peace deal that is meaningful?

[Karee 4,191]

OK Fatah.. Is it possible to reach a deal with Fatah and have it be meaningful? If Israel was sincere and wanted peace could it make a deal with Fatah who also was sincere and wanted peace - could that be implemented for the benefit of both? Does Fatah have the power (political and otherwise) to make a peace deal that is meaningful?

I think there's already somewhat of a de-facto peace with Fatah in the west bank and there has been for years. I don't see them firing rockets into Israel the way that Hamas has done. I'm sure Oriz will roll by and point out some isolated incident. What have they got in return? Expanded settlements, more abuse by the Israeli military, killings of Palestinian civilians by extremist Jewish settlers and the military, who by the way are rarely punished for these murders and when they are it amounts to a slap on the wrist. As well as a big wall built right through the west bank. I'd say that sends a pretty clear message to the folks in Gaza as to what peace with Israel is all about.

[Expat1 971]

Victims who fire rockets and hide behind women and children?

"Hiding" in your bedroom and dining room and summarily executed with your family is "hiding behind women and children" on what planet?

[Expat1 971]

I think there's already somewhat of a de-facto peace with Fatah in the west bank and there has been for years. I don't see them firing rockets into Israel the way that Hamas has done. I'm sure Oriz will roll by and point out some isolated incident. What have they got in return? Expanded settlements, more abuse by the Israeli military, killings of Palestinian civilians by extremist Jewish settlers and the military, who by the way are rarely punished for these murders and when they are it amounts to a slap on the wrist. As well as a big wall built right through the west bank. I'd say that sends a pretty clear message to the folks in Gaza as to what peace with Israel is all about.

As Oriz pointed out, the Golan has been quiet for a long time. Why? UN peacekeepers are stationed there. It might take that - enforcement from outside to set borders and make them stick with both sides.

As much as I can empathize with the Palestinians firing random rockets isn't right either. They just don't have that many other handles to pull. They could learn a lot of lessons from the civil rights movements - watching peaceful protesters getting their tails kicked in the South turned a lot of stomachs back then and I guarantee that Israel would violently respond to something like peaceful sit-ins right in the previously mentioned illegal settlements which would in turn force the world's hand.

[Karee 4,191]

As Oriz pointed out, the Golan has been quiet for a long time. Why? UN peacekeepers are stationed there. It might take that - enforcement from outside to set borders and make them stick with both sides.

As much as I can empathize with the Palestinians firing random rockets isn't right either. They just don't have that many other handles to pull. They could learn a lot of lessons from the civil rights movements - watching peaceful protesters getting their tails kicked in the South turned a lot of stomachs back then and I guarantee that Israel would violently respond to something like peaceful sit-ins right in the previously mentioned illegal settlements which would in turn force the world's hand.

Not much they can do to peacefully protest in Gaza. The place is pretty much a prison. I guess they could go on some kind of mass hunger strike. Other than that, I don't see many options for them. I don't agree with the rocket firing either. It really doesn't further their cause. However, they have limited options. Until the U.S. yanks the leash on Israel (which is unlikely to happen) this cycle in Gaza will probably continue.

[LibCampFireClub 635]

"Hiding" in your bedroom and dining room and summarily executed with your family is "hiding behind women and children" on what planet?

I know man. War ain't pretty. It's the kinda thing you'd hope the guys firing rockets and digging tunnels would learn from. Oh well, you know what they say about war.

[Expat1 971]

I know man. War ain't pretty. It's the kinda thing you'd hope the guys firing rockets and digging tunnels would learn from. Oh well, you know what they say about war.

There is a huge difference between war and oppression and war is not executing whole families sitting in their homes. It's the kinda thing we'd hope other Americans would learn but be my guest if you want to stand up beside and support a group of thieves and murderers.

[Expat1 971]

Not much they can do to peacefully protest in Gaza. The place is pretty much a prison. I guess they could go on some kind of mass hunger strike. Other than that, I don't see many options for them. I don't agree with the rocket firing either. It really doesn't further their cause. However, they have limited options. Until the U.S. yanks the leash on Israel (which is unlikely to happen) this cycle in Gaza will probably continue.

True that. The leash needs to be yanked until at a minimum borders are set and I mean agreed on by both sides, not dictated by the occupiers. A "deal" with Israel is like this: We will give you 30% of the land we took IF you also disarm and leave yourselves to our mercy.

How stupid would anyone be to take a deal like that?

[LibCampFireClub 635]

There is a huge difference between war and oppression and war is not executing whole families sitting in their homes. It's the kinda thing we'd hope other Americans would learn but be my guest if you want to stand up beside and support a group of thieves and murderers.

I really do get it. It's like a child stealing cookies from the cookie jar and then blaming the thievery on the neighbor. Oh, to be so falsely accused of stealing cookies only to learn Mom and Dad have it on video. Such an oppressed child getting a spanking. Except in this case the belt goes "BOOM!"

[Expat1 971]

I really do get it. It's like a child stealing cookies from the cookie jar and then blaming the thievery on the neighbor. Oh, to be so falsely accused of stealing cookies only to learn Mom and Dad have it on video. Such an oppressed child getting a spanking. Except in this case the belt goes "BOOM!"

Dunno where you're from but that's pretty much the way things are back home. IF you survive the "boom" you get while your hand's in the cookie jar you get prosecuted anyway.

As to your Israeli buddies here is what they think about their neighbors, and also what they think about you. These are not peaceful people who believe in, respect, or have regard for the rights of others.

"Non-Jews were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world-only to serve the People of Israel.”

A major Jewish religious figure in Israel has likened non-Jews to donkeys and beasts of burden, saying the main reason for their very existence is to serve Jews.

Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, spiritual mentor of the religious fundamentalist party, Shas, which represents Middle Eastern Jews, reportedly said during a Sabbath homily earlier this week that “the sole purpose of non-Jews is to serve Jews.”

Yosef is considered a major religious leader in Israel who enjoys the allegiance of hundreds of thousands of followers.

Shas is a chief coalition partner in the current Israeli government,

Yosef, also a former Chief Rabbi of Israel, was quoted by the right-wing newspaper, the Jerusalem Post, as saying that the basic function of a goy, a derogatory word for a gentile, was to serve Jews.

“Non-Jews were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world-only to serve the People of Israel,” Yosef said in his weekly Saturday night sermon which was devoted to laws regarding actions non-Jews are permitted to perform on the Sabbath.

Some more cool remarks from this racist bassard:

Following Hurricane Katrina in 2005, Yosef blamed the tragedy on U.S. support for the Gaza disengagement, and on a general lack of Torah study in the area where the hurricane occurred:

There was a

tsunami

and there are terrible natural disasters, because there isn’t enough Torah study... Black people reside there [New Orleans]. Blacks will study the Torah? [God said], Let’s bring a tsunami and drown them... Hundreds of thousands remained homeless. Tens of thousands have been killed. All of these because they have no God... Bush was behind the [expulsion of] Gush Katif, he encouraged Sharon to expel Gush Katif... We had 15,000 people expelled here [in Israel], and there [in America] 150,000 [were expelled].

It was God's retribution

... God does not short-change anyone.

[

70

]

[

71

]

Part of the controversy surrounding Yosef's comments was his use of the Hebrew word "Kushim" to refer to the black people of New Orleans which in biblical Hebrew refers to an ancient African people and in contemporary Hebrew it may be used derogatorily

Edited September 1, 2014 by Expat1

[LibCampFireClub 635]

American football is a great game. It's better than those whimpy kick the round ball games. Israel's got the winning team. The game is a long one, but they are well-trained, disciplined and ready to stick it out till the end. Their cowardly opponent considers themselves underdogs and therefore can play dirty. They trip, they kick, they punch, they scream one of our team members. So, in retaliation, we take out ten of theirs. They are showing incredible restraint, which is why it's taking so long. If they let the big lineman just run over the other team that would end the game too soon and the advertisers would be unable to recoup their investment.

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

I think there's already somewhat of a de-facto peace with Fatah in the west bank and there has been for years. I don't see them firing rockets into Israel the way that Hamas has done. I'm sure Oriz will roll by and point out some isolated incident. What have they got in return? Expanded settlements, more abuse by the Israeli military, killings of Palestinian civilians by extremist Jewish settlers and the military, who by the way are rarely punished for these murders and when they are it amounts to a slap on the wrist. As well as a big wall built right through the west bank. I'd say that sends a pretty clear message to the folks in Gaza as to what peace with Israel is all about.

From what I understand Fatah is one party in the Palestinian Parliament among many and does not hold the majority (Hamas holds the majority).. What deal can be made with them that can be honored? They don't currently represent the stated will of the Palestinian people or government.

[Karee 4,191]

From what I understand Fatah is one party in the Palestinian Parliament among many and does not hold the majority (Hamas holds the majority).. What deal can be made with them that can be honored? They don't currently represent the stated will of the Palestinian people or government.

I believe that Hamas runs what government there is, in Gaza, and Fatah runs things in the West Bank. That's kinda been my point. It would go a long way if Israel makes peace with Fatah in the West Bank. It would show the people in Gaza that firing rockets at civilians in Israel doesn't get you anywhere. Instead Israel keeps annexing more and more land in the West Bank. Oppressing the people and so on. Like I was saying, if that's what peace gets you, you might as well fire rockets.

The Palestinian National Authority (PA; Arabic: السلطة الوطنية الفلسطينية‎ As-Sulṭah Al-Waṭaniyyah Al-Filasṭīniyyah) was the interim self-government body^[4] established to govern Areas A and B of the West Bank and Gaza Strip as a consequence of the 1993 Oslo Accords.^[5][6] Following elections in 2006 and the subsequent Gaza conflict between the Fatah and Hamas parties, its authority had extended only as far as the West Bank. Since January 2013, the Fatah-controlled Palestinian Authority rebranded itself as the State of Palestine in official documents,^[7][8][9] after the United Nations voted to recognize Palestine as a non-member UN observer state.^[10][11][1

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_National_Authority

American football is a great game. It's better than those whimpy kick the round ball games. Israel's got the winning team. The game is a long one, but they are well-trained, disciplined and ready to stick it out till the end. Their cowardly opponent considers themselves underdogs and therefore can play dirty. They trip, they kick, they punch, they scream one of our team members. So, in retaliation, we take out ten of theirs. They are showing incredible restraint, which is why it's taking so long. If they let the big lineman just run over the other team that would end the game too soon and the advertisers would be unable to recoup their investment.

Israel has nukes. Why not just go ahead and get it over with? They've already proven time and again they have no problem slaughtering mass numbers of civilians.

[rlogan 2,036]

I really do get it. It's like a child stealing cookies from the cookie jar and then blaming the thievery on the neighbor. Oh, to be so falsely accused of stealing cookies only to learn Mom and Dad have it on video. Such an oppressed child getting a spanking. Except in this case the belt goes "BOOM!"

Thousands killed in the latest brutality, and we're making up analogies of children stealing cookies?!

...and football?

I see this so often with people that know almost nothing of the situation they are speaking to. Instead of addressing the situation: Palestinians forced off their land and into what amounts to reservations as oppressed refugees - we listen to that being changed into football, or cookies, or some other ludicrous comparison. I can see a 13 year old making up this kind of analogy, but an adult ought to know enough history to draw correct parallels between events. For example, the theft of Indian land through Manifest Destiny.

Analogies are almost never useful. They are probably most often abused by people trying to lie about what the situation actually is. The usual framing is Israel minding its own business in its suburb of the USA, and someone fires a rocket into their bedroom window. Wouldn't you fight back? Those bad Palestinians, in your neighborhood just shooting off rockets because they hate people, flowers, puppy dogs, and happiness.

yeah, and then they go hide behind human shields. They kidnap kids and hold them at gunpoint in order to prevent the cops from getting them.

Edited September 1, 2014 by rlogan