Obama bucks tradition, skips funeral highest-ranking officer killed in combat since Vietnam.

[JohnR! 5,495]

I believe that with the military that decision needs to be made before signing on the dotted line. But once you're in, then you're all in for as long as you signed up for.

It is. You sign up and you follow orders. You go wherever you're sent and you carry out the mission you were assigned. You plan, you rehearse and you do your part.

For instance, I don't get to choose to work with eggplants and artichokes only. In the produce department at the PX/BX I must manage the produce that is delivered to the store. If I don't do that people may die.

[GBCW 397]

I don't and would not sit at your whiny table. I prefer to sit at the table of the people who disdain a sitting president that did not attend the funeral of one of our Generals who was brutally murdered by a terrorist in Afghanistan. I may order a meal that you don't like, or even those who agree with me don't like. I would however enjoy seeing you choke a little while gobbling down a ham sandwich. I might hesitate a little, but I'd surely aggressively render the Heimlich maneuver.

Funniest VJ post in 2014 thus far.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Selective service is a duty to one's nation that's not to be taken lightly. I don't think anyone in the military, no matter which avenue they took to get there, should have a right to opt out battle. Either way, it's got to be 100%.

That would be correct if it is indeed one's nation. But it isn't. Immigrants - regardless of status - must register. It's not their nation, is it? And even for those born and raised here - there are people that cannot reconcile their beliefs with picking up a gun and going off killing other people. They just can't. And they ought to be afforded a way to serve without having to do that.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

This nut shell's the entire thread via inadvertent honesty. Those who have gobbled up the faux outrage of the original OP would just as quickly and easily found something, anything really, to be outraged about had the President attended the funeral anyway.

I kind of agree. I don't think it is a huge slap he did not go. Not like it was a major protocol breach. I like to limit my criticism to real issues, not silly stuff like gold.

That is why I occupy the middle

[Teddy B 17,252]

That would be correct if it is indeed one's nation. But it isn't. Immigrants - regardless of status - must register. It's not their nation, is it? And even for those born and raised here - there are people that cannot reconcile their beliefs with picking up a gun and going off killing other people. They just can't. And they ought to be afforded a way to serve without having to do that.

If an immigrant is here in a legal status, then they are taking advantage of the resources here, they should be required to fight if necessary. If an immigrant is here illegally, I don't see them signing up at all, but it's not really relevant. As far as folks reconciling their beliefs, I think when it comes to war, everyone reconciles their beliefs to a certain extent. Unfortunately there is not always that room to opt out.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If an immigrant is here in a legal status, then they are taking advantage of the resources here, they should be required to fight if necessary. If an immigrant is here illegally, I don't see them signing up at all, but it's not really relevant. As far as folks reconciling their beliefs, I think when it comes to war, everyone reconciles their beliefs to a certain extent. Unfortunately there is not always that room to opt out.

Most people on here are here to get married, live and work. The country they are moving to is (or should be) secondary to that.

[Teddy B 17,252]

Most people on here are here to get married, live and work. The country they are moving to is (or should be) secondary to that.

Most people on here are here to get married and move to the US. Part of moving to the US for most includes signing up for the selective service. If one does not want to sign up, they should rethink their country of choice. No one is forcing them to live here, it's a choice.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Most people on here are here to get married and move to the US. Part of moving to the US for most includes signing up for the selective service. If one does not want to sign up, they should rethink their country of choice. No one is forcing them to live here, it's a choice.

I'm aware of all of that, having done it.

That being said, if I was in the position of potentially being sent to Iraq, I would have refused.

[Teddy B 17,252]

I'm aware of all of that, having done it.

That being said, if I was in the position of potentially being sent to Iraq, I would have refused.

And that is also a choice. A choice with consequences, but still a choice.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Most people on here are here to get married, live and work. The country they are moving to is (or should be) secondary to that.

I understand your POV but in fact it is not. If you move here from a country with no income tax you will have to pay US taxes, even if you're only a resident - my wife found out the hard way and she had a choice to make. She didn't need a greencard but she realized that by getting one her professional choices would be much broader. The same applies to the military. It is all a choice. If you don't want to be faced with the possibility of serving in the military then America is not the country for you. It sounds - and may be - harsh but it is the reality, and it is something every alien seeking residence in the US should consider.

[Teddy B 17,252]

Never mind.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Teddy B

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

It's difficult to question, once one has signed up, surely?

Not only difficult, it is essentially against the law. One can claim status of conscientious objector (CO), but that is difficult, since everyone must sign a statement saying they are not COs when they enlist. If CO can be proven, a person can get out of the military. However, the process leading up to that and the tribulations one will face during that time can be rather stressful on an individual...

CO - A member who can convince the military that they are conscientious objectors may request a discharge. This is not as easy as it sounds. First, the member would have to show that his/her beliefs changed significantly after they joined the military, because one must certify that they are not conscientious objectors at the time of voluntary enlistment.

You can't pick and choose which war you object to. By law, a conscientious objector is one who is opposed to participation in all wars. The person's opposition must be based on religious belief and training, and it must be deeply held.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I understand your POV but in fact it is not. If you move here from a country with no income tax you will have to pay US taxes, even if you're only a resident - my wife found out the hard way and she had a choice to make. She didn't need a greencard but she realized that by getting one her professional choices would be much broader. The same applies to the military. It is all a choice. If you don't want to be faced with the possibility of serving in the military then America is not the country for you. It sounds - and may be - harsh but it is the reality, and it is something every alien seeking residence in the US should consider.

I understand all of that. I made those choices.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Not only difficult, it is essentially against the law. One can claim status of conscientious objector (CO), but that is difficult, since everyone must sign a statement saying they are not COs when they enlist. If CO can be proven, a person can get out of the military. However, the process leading up to that and the tribulations one will face during that time can be rather stressful on an individual...

CO - A member who can convince the military that they are conscientious objectors may request a discharge. This is not as easy as it sounds. First, the member would have to show that his/her beliefs changed significantly after they joined the military, because one must certify that they are not conscientious objectors at the time of voluntary enlistment.

You can't pick and choose which war you object to. By law, a conscientious objector is one who is opposed to participation in all wars. The person's opposition must be based on religious belief and training, and it must be deeply held.

All I'm saying is that a person should be able to. I'm not saying it should be easy or absent scrutiny, but it should be a possibility.

I realise it's not a popular idea.

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

By that token, it could be 100% of everything or 100% of nothing.

I don't think it should be easy to opt-out, but it's reasonable to allow people the chance if they can present a convincing, genuine argument.

There is an option, but it is hard to prove, see my above post.