The Michael Brown Shooting Official Thread

[Karee 4,191]

Janelle is a perfect example. She blames racism for everything. And I mean everything.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

No it hasn't... nothing remotely close.. Debating merits of a single case or the extant... That's about it.

Please if someone believes its gone or near gone speak up..

Then we disagree. Imagine that.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

We talked about the school thing before. Look at Camden. NJ as an example. I think they spend the 3rd highest per student of any school district in the state, yet their scores are always at the bottom. Throwing money at problems isn't always the answer. In fact in some cases it makes it worse. See generational welfare as an example of that in all races.

Last time we got into a discussion about AA, that wench started throwing hand grenades and got it shut down. Let's see what happens this time since she split. And no, I'm not letting that go.

AA is a divisive program. It pits races against each other. People should not be given any kind of preference based on race. That is racist. Bottom line. Can't have it both ways.

AA is racist because it asks you to please consider hiring a qualified applicant instead of automatically disqualifying them because of their race or gender?

Janelle is a perfect example. She blames racism for everything. And I mean everything.

Point this out and I will give you a cookie.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

We talked about the school thing before. Look at Camden. NJ as an example. I think they spend the 3rd highest per student of any school district in the state, yet their scores are always at the bottom. Throwing money at problems isn't always the answer. In fact in some cases it makes it worse. See generational welfare as an example of that in all races.

Last time we got into a discussion about AA, that wench started throwing hand grenades and got it shut down. Let's see what happens this time since she split. And no, I'm not letting that go.

AA is a divisive program. It pits races against each other. People should not be given any kind of preference based on race. That is racist. Bottom line. Can't have it both ways.

When teachers are being paid less in minority schools, there's an issue. When the learning material is third rate and your books aren't even qualified to be called hand me downs, there's an issue.

I'm with you on that one. I think she is posting under a different name(We'll call her wind stripper). She got mad when I pointed out that as a white woman, she's probably more a beneficiary of AA than most minorities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/28/books/review/28KOTZL.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

I hate the program myself. But, as I've said before, without it, many folks wouldn't be where they are today. When having a black name and PHD weighs just as much as having a white name and PHD, we can get rid of it.

[Karee 4,191]

When teachers are being paid less in minority schools, there's an issue. When the learning material is third rate and your books aren't even qualified to be called hand me downs, there's an issue.

I'm with you on that one. I think she is posting under a different name(We'll call her wind stripper). She got mad when I pointed out that as a white woman, she's probably more a beneficiary of AA than most minorities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/28/books/review/28KOTZL.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

I hate the program myself. But, as I've said before, without it, many folks wouldn't be where they are today. When having a black name and PHD weighs just as much as having a white name and PHD, we can get rid of it.

I look at the schools in India and other 3rd world countries that probably have 10% of the books and learning materials they have in the worst public schools in the U.S. Those folks know poverty on a level unheard of in the U.S., yet they seem to excel. Maybe it's their upbringing and family environment?

While AA may get a few people jobs here and there, I'd argue that it furthers racism. Again, can't have it both ways. How do you think the white guy is going to feel because he was passed over for a job in favor of a black guy because of AA? IMO, that doesn't promote racial harmony, it promotes racial divisiveness. Seems counter-productive when the goal is trying to achieve racial harmony. I'd argue it creates racism where it didn't exist before in the eyes of folks that were passed over for employment or promotions, simply because they're white. It fosters racial resentment.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

For some reason. Let me help you with the reasons.

Some, not all people, but SOME of the racist do not want to live next door to the GOOD black people who moved in next to them. So what do they do?

They sell their house as cheap as possible and leave. The for sale signs goes up as soon as a black person moves on the block.

The idea behind a lot of fancy neighborhoods is fancy with not having to look at poverty everyday.

You sell your house for dirt cheap then the people who would not make ideal neighbors move in and if the owner can't sell it they rent at really cheap prices.

My mom and I were the first in a neighborhood like this in Memphis. Nice, modest $200,000 approx house. The for sale signs went up within a week..

Now there are nothing but ghetto black, white and Mexican folks that stay out there.

There is your reason.

However, where i stay now, nobody put the for sale sign up. Maybe they couldn't afford it. But they looked as us crazy every freaking day. Now, 2 and half years later, the neighborhood isn't ruined, there are no drive by shootings and whatever else. Because people couldn't move!! But they got a chance to see us decent black folks were decent and beyond because I AM AWESOME and they are now okay instead of running and screaming there goes the neighborhood.

I'm sorry, I don't see it that way. There are a variety of reasons, not just one. When a black family moves into a neighborhood in suburbia where I am, the white folks don't move out. If a family can afford a $200K house, they are far from your stereotypical unemployed, drug dealing, crack whoring, single unwed mothers with 5 kids from 5 fathers type of family. Please note I said stereotypical and not what I actually think. They are decent people. I think we are talking about people on opposite sides of the spectrum. "Ghetto" people can't afford to buy houses.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I look at the schools in India and other 3rd world countries that probably have 10% of the books and learning materials they have in the worst public schools in the U.S. Those folks know poverty on a level unheard of in the U.S., yet they seem to excel. Maybe it's their upbringing and family environment?

While AA may get a few people jobs here and there, I'd argue that it furthers racism. Again, can't have it both ways. How do you think the white guy is going to feel because he was passed over for a job in favor of a black guy because of AA? IMO, that doesn't promote racial harmony, it promotes racial divisiveness. Seems counter-productive when the goal is trying to achieve racial harmony. I'd argue it creates racism where it didn't exist before in the eyes of folks that were passed over for employment or promotions, simply because they're white. It fosters racial resentment.

Understand. In India, they're not taught to hate themselves. I don't think any race is, except black people. And what's worse is now, we are hating each other AND ourselves. Like you said it's more complex than picking up a book. You're looking at 400 years plus discrimination and a mentality that's been seared into the world conscience.

The problem with the second sentence is racism has always been here. It's not like AA created that. What is the solution? Make it based on merit?

http://www.chicagobooth.edu/capideas/spring03/racialbias.html

The authors find that applicants with white-sounding names are 50 percent more likely to get called for an initial interview than applicants with African-American-sounding names. Applicants with white names need to send about 10 resumes to get one callback, whereas applicants with African-American names need to send about 15 resumes to achieve the same result.

In addition, race greatly affects how much applicants benefit from having more experience and credentials. White job applicants with higher-quality resumes received 30 percent more callbacks than whites with lower-quality resumes. Having a higher-quality resume has a much smaller impact on African-American applicants, who experienced only 9 percent more callbacks for the same improvement in their credentials. This disparity suggests that in the current state of the labor market, African-Americans may not have strong individual incentives to build better resumes.

"For us, the most surprising and disheartening result is seeing that applicants with African-American names were not rewarded for having better resumes," says Bertrand.

Until there is a solution for this, AA isn't going anywhere soon.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

I'm sorry, I don't see it that way. There are a variety of reasons, not just one. When a black family moves into a neighborhood in suburbia where I am, the white folks don't move out. If a family can afford a $200K house, they are far from your stereotypical unemployed, drug dealing, crack whoring, single unwed mothers with 5 kids from 5 fathers type of family. Please note I said stereotypical and not what I actually think. They are decent people. I think we are talking about people on opposite sides of the spectrum. "Ghetto" people can't afford to buy houses.

Dude, it happens.

[Karee 4,191]

Understand. In India, they're not taught to hate themselves. I don't think any race is, except black people. And what's worse is now, we are hating each other AND ourselves. Like you said it's more complex than picking up a book. You're looking at 400 years plus discrimination and a mentality that's been seared into the world conscience.

The problem with the second sentence is racism has always been here. It's not like AA created that. What is the solution? Make it based on merit?

http://www.chicagobooth.edu/capideas/spring03/racialbias.html

The authors find that applicants with white-sounding names are 50 percent more likely to get called for an initial interview than applicants with African-American-sounding names. Applicants with white names need to send about 10 resumes to get one callback, whereas applicants with African-American names need to send about 15 resumes to achieve the same result.

In addition, race greatly affects how much applicants benefit from having more experience and credentials. White job applicants with higher-quality resumes received 30 percent more callbacks than whites with lower-quality resumes. Having a higher-quality resume has a much smaller impact on African-American applicants, who experienced only 9 percent more callbacks for the same improvement in their credentials. This disparity suggests that in the current state of the labor market, African-Americans may not have strong individual incentives to build better resumes.

"For us, the most surprising and disheartening result is seeing that applicants with African-American names were not rewarded for having better resumes," says Bertrand.

Until there is a solution for this, AA isn't going anywhere soon.

So you think forcing companies to hire employees they don't want to hire is the answer? Even if the reason they don't want to hire them is because they have a black sounding name? That's fools gold in my opinion.

From what I've seen recently in my work environments, companies have gone out of their way to hire less qualified black candidates because they want to appear racially diverse to the outside world. Guess who has to pick up the slack when companies use those kind of hiring practices? The other employees, both black and white. What does that lead to? Resentment.

You keep pounding away at that black sounding name thing. I'm sure that problem exists, but I doubt it's a prevalent as you want it to be. By the way that study you linked to is 14 years old.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I wonder what percentage of the people in 1994 that were arrested were African American or Hispanic? I bet without even looking it was somewhere around 89%. I couldn't find the stats for 1994, but I did some looking around and found the stats for 2008 to 2012. Just browsing over those numbers I found that roughly 75-90% of the people that were arrested (depending on the crime committed) happened to be classified as African American or Hispanic. So it would make perfect sense that the number of African Americans and Hispanics that died while in custody would also be near 89%.

And that is the sad reality of it. It is going to take a lot to break this endless cycle, and some of it has to come from within. Welfare doesn't work in many cases, in fact, it has actually produced generations of Welfare recipients. This isn't the way out under the current scheme of things. The black community in question needs to wake up and do something about it. It's hard to help someone who won't or doesn't want to help themselves.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

I look at the schools in India and other 3rd world countries that probably have 10% of the books and learning materials they have in the worst public schools in the U.S. Those folks know poverty on a level unheard of in the U.S., yet they seem to excel. Maybe it's their upbringing and family environment?

While AA may get a few people jobs here and there, I'd argue that it furthers racism. Again, can't have it both ways. How do you think the white guy is going to feel because he was passed over for a job in favor of a black guy because of AA? IMO, that doesn't promote racial harmony, it promotes racial divisiveness. Seems counter-productive when the goal is trying to achieve racial harmony. I'd argue it creates racism where it didn't exist before in the eyes of folks that were passed over for employment or promotions, simply because they're white. It fosters racial resentment.

Indians are from India yes? So when their oppressors left, they still had India, yes? Okay thanks for clearing that up.

They didn't have to spit shine shoes and raise another woman's kids while neglecting their own to make it in a country that hated them that they could not call their own.

The Tigermom actually talked about this recently.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

So you think forcing companies to hire employees they don't want to hire is the answer? Even if the reason they don't want to hire them is because they have a black sounding name? That's fools gold in my opinion.

From what I've seen recently in my work environments, companies have gone out of their way to hire less qualified black candidates because they want to appear racially diverse to the outside world. Guess who has to pick up the slack when companies use those kind of hiring practices? The other employees, both black and white. What does that lead to? Resentment.

You keep pounding away at that black sounding name thing. I'm sure that problem exists, but I doubt it's a prevalent as you want it to be. By the way that study you linked to is 14 years old.

http://selfuni.wordpress.com/2013/12/29/unemployed-black-woman-pretends-to-be-white-job-offers-suddenly-skyrocket/

This was in December 2013, does that qualify?

Your problem is you think they're less qualified. In most cases, they're just as qualified as the white applicants.

[Karee 4,191]

And that is the sad reality of it. It is going to take a lot to break this endless cycle, and some of it has to come from within. Welfare doesn't work in many cases, in fact, it has actually produced generations of Welfare recipients. This isn't the way out under the current scheme of things. The black community in question needs to wake up and do something about it. It's hard to help someone who won't or doesn't want to help themselves.

And racism is used as a scapegoat by a lot of the black leaders for all their problems. The media feeds it as well. When people are constantly telling you that you're a victim, even when you're not, it probably starts to sink in over time.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Dude, it happens.

I'm sure it has, but it's far from the main or only reason. At what point do you feel a person is responsible for their own actions? When does a person learn right from wrong? Where does a person learn right from wrong? If I go rob a 7-11 and end up in jail, whose fault is it? All of our choices and actions have consequences, some good, some bad. Some people make nothing but bad choices, but I find it a tough swallow to blame it on everyone else.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

It is not abnormal for a police office to pull over a woman, with his gun halfway out of the holster? Let me guess? Black women have a history of shooting at the police, yes? Please explain to me the reason for hostility other than this non-sense answer you threw together right quick to pat yourself on the back for nothing.

Most times you are pulled over. Glad you aren't black. I'd hate for you to have an experience like mine's or other black people.

In this post you say, the officer had his gun halfway out. In your previous post you said he had his hand on it . Which was it .

FYI I have been stopped at night before and the cop approached the car very carefully with his hand on his gun . Pretty standard behavior, I would think