The Michael Brown Shooting Official Thread

[Janelle2002 3,865]

When I was a kid, Brockton, Milford, and other towns here in MA were largely Italian. Over the decades, more minorities moved in, especially Brockton. The crime rate went up. For a variety of reasons, there are cities and towns in every state where this has happened, and most frequently the poor black neighborhoods is where it has occurred. As this continues, the stereotyping continues to grow, IMO. But honestly, people are responsible for their own actions. Some of the habits and learned behavior are hard to break, but it does start at home. And from what you have posted here, your mother was a fine example of starting it at home. And you are living proof that it does work.

For some reason. Let me help you with the reasons.

Some, not all people, but SOME of the racist do not want to live next door to the GOOD black people who moved in next to them. So what do they do?

They sell their house as cheap as possible and leave. The for sale signs goes up as soon as a black person moves on the block.

The idea behind a lot of fancy neighborhoods is fancy with not having to look at poverty everyday.

You sell your house for dirt cheap then the people who would not make ideal neighbors move in and if the owner can't sell it they rent at really cheap prices.

My mom and I were the first in a neighborhood like this in Memphis. Nice, modest $200,000 approx house. The for sale signs went up within a week..

Now there are nothing but ghetto black, white and Mexican folks that stay out there.

There is your reason.

However, where i stay now, nobody put the for sale sign up. Maybe they couldn't afford it. But they looked as us crazy every freaking day. Now, 2 and half years later, the neighborhood isn't ruined, there are no drive by shootings and whatever else. Because people couldn't move!! But they got a chance to see us decent black folks were decent and beyond because I AM AWESOME and they are now okay instead of running and screaming there goes the neighborhood.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

As to the first question, the answer is absolutely yes. Black people are definitely more likely to experience poverty than whites. However, the cause of that poverty is up for debate. Black children are much more likely to live in one parent households than other races. Maybe give that problem the same attention that racism gets.

As for prison sentences, that depends on many factors. Do they have a prior criminal history? Could they afford a decent lawyer etc? This much I know, the justice system is tilted in the favor of people that have more money. That's just a fact. Black folks make less money than white folks. See first paragraph concerning that fact. Also one of the major factors in deciding whether you get probation or a prison sentence is if you have a job and are employable. No job, and no chances to get one, off to prison. I have first hand experience with this.

The income inequality needs to be addressed. That starts with education and parenting. Screaming racism everytime something happens to a black person is a good way to make sure it is never addressed.

All of these programs over the years, affirmative action, bussing, etc. have done zero to address the income inequality. In fact I think it has increased resentment between races. I think the percentage of black folks living below the poverty line is pretty much the same as it was 30 years ago.

Marvin he pretty much nailed it. There is my answer.

For some reason. Let me help you with the reasons.

Some, not all people, but SOME of the racist do not want to live next door to the GOOD black people who moved in next to them. So what do they do?

They sell their house as cheap as possible and leave. The for sale signs goes up as soon as a black person moves on the block.

The idea behind a lot of fancy neighborhoods is fancy with not having to look at poverty everyday.

You sell your house for dirt cheap then the people who would not make ideal neighbors move in and if the owner can't sell it they rent at really cheap prices.

My mom and I were the first in a neighborhood like this in Memphis. Nice, modest $200,000 approx house. The for sale signs went up within a week..

Now there are nothing but ghetto black, white and Mexican folks that stay out there.

There is your reason.

However, where i stay now, nobody put the for sale sign up. Maybe they couldn't afford it. But they looked as us crazy every freaking day. Now, 2 and half years later, the neighborhood isn't ruined, there are no drive by shootings and whatever else. Because people couldn't move!! But they got a chance to see us decent black folks were decent and beyond because I AM AWESOME and they are now okay instead of running and screaming there goes the neighborhood.

So now the neighborhood is ghetto. Well do you blame them for selling, knowing what was coming.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

As to the first question, the answer is absolutely yes. Black people are definitely more likely to experience poverty than whites. However, the cause of that poverty is up for debate. Black children are much more likely to live in one parent households than other races. Maybe give that problem the same attention that racism gets.

As for prison sentences, that depends on many factors. Do they have a prior criminal history? Could they afford a decent lawyer etc? This much I know, the justice system is tilted in the favor of people that have more money. That's just a fact. Black folks make less money than white folks. See first paragraph concerning that fact. Also one of the major factors in deciding whether you get probation or a prison sentence is if you have a job and are employable. No job, and no chances to get one, off to prison. I have first hand experience with this.

The income inequality needs to be addressed. That starts with education and parenting. Screaming racism everytime something happens to a black person is a good way to make sure it is never addressed.

All of these programs over the years, affirmative action, bussing, etc. have done zero to address the income inequality. In fact I think it has increased resentment between races. I think the percentage of black folks living below the poverty line is pretty much the same as it was 30 years ago.

I completely agree that its a complex issue. I just take issue with the idea that racism is in the past when there is ample evidence to the contrary.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

That is not abnormal. They are required to be prepared for the worst. He has no idea if you are as sweet as his grandmother or a meth-head who just hid a body somewhere. I think most times I was pulled over, the officer had his hand on his gun, thumb behind the snap.

It might also alarm you to know that their guns are locked and loaded, and that Glocks don't have a conventional safety. It's draw, point, pull...

It is not abnormal for a police office to pull over a woman, with his gun halfway out of the holster? Let me guess? Black women have a history of shooting at the police, yes? Please explain to me the reason for hostility other than this non-sense answer you threw together right quick to pat yourself on the back for nothing.

Most times you are pulled over. Glad you aren't black. I'd hate for you to have an experience like mine's or other black people.

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

I completely agree that its a complex issue. I just take issue with the idea that racism is in the past when there is ample evidence to the contrary.

Exactly zero people in this thread have made that claim. If I am wrong and anyone wants to say it is all gone please correct me.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

Marvin he pretty much nailed it. There is my answer.

So now the neighborhood is ghetto. Well do you blame them for selling, knowing what was coming.

They caused the downfall of the neighborhood. While some poor people are clean and neat there are some who are not. This is a known fact. Please stop acting like you have lost oxygen to your brain. What does a trailer park look like? I would imagine the version of the black ghetto, yes?

But then there are some nice looking trailer parks too, yes?

I know you like to pretend you can't help yourself, but I know better.

[Karee 4,190]

For some reason. Let me help you with the reasons.

Some, not all people, but SOME of the racist do not want to live next door to the GOOD black people who moved in next to them. So what do they do?

They sell their house as cheap as possible and leave. The for sale signs goes up as soon as a black person moves on the block.

The idea behind a lot of fancy neighborhoods is fancy with not having to look at poverty everyday.

You sell your house for dirt cheap then the people who would not make ideal neighbors move in and if the owner can't sell it they rent at really cheap prices.

My mom and I were the first in a neighborhood like this in Memphis. Nice, modest $200,000 approx house. The for sale signs went up within a week..

Now there are nothing but ghetto black, white and Mexican folks that stay out there.

There is your reason.

However, where i stay now, nobody put the for sale sign up. Maybe they couldn't afford it. But they looked as us crazy every freaking day. Now, 2 and half years later, the neighborhood isn't ruined, there are no drive by shootings and whatever else. Because people couldn't move!! But they got a chance to see us decent black folks were decent and beyond because I AM AWESOME and they are now okay instead of running and screaming there goes the neighborhood.

I went through this scenario growing up in Detroit. The black mayor was openly racist against white folks. The white folks started selling their houses when black families moved in on the block. Add forced busing to the mix and the floor on property values dropped out. In 1975 the Detroit school system instituted busing.

This is the house I lived in from 1973-1976:

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/17126-Sunderland-Rd-Detroit-MI-48219/88211937_zpid/

That house is worth about the same or less than what my parents paid for it in 1973. $37k

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Exactly zero people in this thread have made that claim. If I am wrong and anyone wants to say it is all gone please correct me.

The implication has been clear for some time from the many exchanges on the race issue from the same personalities across multiple threads.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

I went through this scenario growing up in Detroit. The black mayor was openly racist against white folks. The white folks started selling their houses when black families moved in on the block. Add forced busing to the mix and the floor on property values dropped out. In 1975 the Detroit school system instituted busing.

This is the house I lived in from 1973-1976:

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/17126-Sunderland-Rd-Detroit-MI-48219/88211937_zpid/

That house is worth about the same or less than what my parents paid for it in 1973. $37k

I just addressed this issue with Nature Boy. Please see above comment.

[Karee 4,190]

I completely agree that its a complex issue. I just take issue with the idea that racism is in the past when there is ample evidence to the contrary.

I didn't mean to imply that racism is a thing of the past. It's not. Not by a long shot. I guess my point is that people need to stop blaming things on racism when something bad happens to a black person. Bad things happen to people. The problem is this constant blaming of everything on racism. Eventually it just becomes noise and people ignore it because in many cases it turns out race had nothing to do with it. See the TM/GZ thing as clear evidence of that. They searched high and low to try and find someone that would testify that ol George was a "hang em high" racist. They couldn't find any evidence of it whatsoever. Even with the doctored 911 tapes they still couldn't prove any sort of racism. In fact, I think he had a black neighbor testify on his behalf that he was a stand up guy and WASNT racist at all.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

As to the first question, the answer is absolutely yes. Black people are definitely more likely to experience poverty than whites. However, the cause of that poverty is up for debate. Black children are much more likely to live in one parent households than other races. Maybe give that problem the same attention that racism gets.

As for prison sentences, that depends on many factors. Do they have a prior criminal history? Could they afford a decent lawyer etc? This much I know, the justice system is tilted in the favor of people that have more money. That's just a fact. Black folks make less money than white folks. See first paragraph concerning that fact. Also one of the major factors in deciding whether you get probation or a prison sentence is if you have a job and are employable. No job, and no chances to get one, off to prison. I have first hand experience with this.

The income inequality needs to be addressed. That starts with education and parenting. Screaming racism everytime something happens to a black person is a good way to make sure it is never addressed.

All of these programs over the years, affirmative action, bussing, etc. have done zero to address the income inequality. In fact I think it has increased resentment between races. I think the percentage of black folks living below the poverty line is pretty much the same as it was 30 years ago.

Actually, a study has been done that talk about white children in single parent homes that still do better than black children. When you factor in schools that have less money funneled into them, this also plays a role.

On this we agree, money will play a big role. Blacks and Hispanics are more likely to experience poverty so they will have less chance for leniency.

It's been proven time and time again, black people with the exact credentials as their white counterparts are overlooked. That needs to be addressed.

If AA hadn't been created, do you think black and hispanic people would have been able to make any ground?

Marvin he pretty much nailed it. There is my answer.

So now the neighborhood is ghetto. Well do you blame them for selling, knowing what was coming.

Some I agree with, some I don't.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

Are you calling me racist?

Uhhhhhh Can I plead the fifth?

I didn't mean to imply that racism is a thing of the past. It's not. Not by a long shot. I guess my point is that people need to stop blaming things on racism when something bad happens to a black person. Bad things happen to people. The problem is this constant blaming of everything on racism. Eventually it just becomes noise and people ignore it because in many cases it turns out race had nothing to do with it. See the TM/GZ thing as clear evidence of that. They searched high and low to try and find someone that would testify that ol George was a "hang em high" racist. They couldn't find any evidence of it whatsoever. Even with the doctored 911 tapes they still couldn't prove any sort of racism. In fact, I think he had a black neighbor testify on his behalf that he was a stand up guy and WASNT racist at all.

Mmmmmm hmmmmm.

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

The implication has been clear for some time from the many exchanges on the race issue from the same personalities across multiple threads.

No it hasn't... nothing remotely close.. Debating merits of a single case or the extant... That's about it.

Please if someone believes its gone or near gone speak up..

Edited August 18, 2014 by OnMyWayID

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I didn't mean to imply that racism is a thing of the past. It's not. Not by a long shot. I guess my point is that people need to stop blaming things on racism when something bad happens to a black person. Bad things happen to people. The problem is this constant blaming of everything on racism. Eventually it just becomes noise and people ignore it because in many cases it turns out race had nothing to do with it. See the TM/GZ thing as clear evidence of that. They searched high and low to try and find someone that would testify that ol George was a "hang em high" racist. They couldn't find any evidence of it whatsoever. Even with the doctored 911 tapes they still couldn't prove any sort of racism. In fact, I think he had a black neighbor testify on his behalf that he was a stand up guy and WASNT racist at all.

Again, I agree.

This comment from am article I found online is quite interesting:

We can't have an honest conversation about race without giving primacy of place to history and class as it affected attitudes toward race. Unless we talk about how the contemporary atmosphere of violence developed directly from the atmosphere of violence that blacks were continually subjected to by the agents of the state we can't comprehend it. Likewise we can't understand the resentment of having been left behind among poor blacks without comprehending how capitalism with its strong emphasis on acquisition of private property as the only avenue for the acquisition of social status divided middle class and poor blacks, middle class and poor whites and sowed jealousy and incomprehension all around in a strategy of divide and conquer by the elite, played out largely in the urban job market and the payment based education system that determines your position in it.

There is no reasonable solution to racism in our society without addressing class. Families pass their money from generation to generation and over time they develop privileged positions using inherited wealth. Education is purchased with money. Small businesses are started by the educated with money. Profitable small businesses expand. Second generation college students go on to garner PHDs. Wealthy families enter into politics. Etc. This trajectory is identical for all families in a capitalist society regardless of race. Most african-americans were not paid for their wages or allowed to even own property for centuries. This single fact explains most of the reason for their largely fixed position within the lower class.

But their was another disadvantage. Families in the slave system were broken up, not even allowed to exist and all individuals within the system were subjected to organized violence and torture. After the system was outlawed the violence and discrimination continued in jim crow laws and the lynchings used to enforce them.

Mass migration to northern cities to escape this terror resulted in mixed results. Unfortunately this huge body of untrained labor started pouring into Detroit, New York, Chicago after the Jews Italians and Irish, among others had come a few decades earlier in mass and so racism became an element of job competition in an economy that was contracting across the manufacturing sector for the rest of the 20th century.

Class conflict isn't just the poor vs the rich - its the poor vs the poorer, but socialism doesn't like to address that topic because its ugly on all sides. Anti-racism campaigns don't like to address it either. The miracle is that despite these enormous historical disadvantages many african american families once they gained access to even the minimum of education began to rise up against the odds. There were many sub-groups within the black population. Never mind the fact that the evolving ideology of the equal rights movement united all people's of african descent in a just cause, look closer and you see that in the north there were many families who were descended from free blacks who got access to education earlier and were not subject to the terror of jim crow and developed into a small middle class of professionals ie a different social class, than the blacks arriving from the south and later the carribbean.

The immigrant system in the US was always a class system that favored those who arrived earlier over those who arrived later. The black community was no exception and as the economy of northern cities contracted and flatlined during mid century there was black flight to the suburbs by the black middle class just as there was with whites. Though in the suburban environment class segregation and race segregation went hand in hand. The poor from all groups were left behind. Racism as it is currently understood came about in this environment That the suburbs were designed to seperate the middle class from the discomfort of living adjacent to the poor was never closely examined, though it shaped relations among different groups of american blacks as well as whites.

[Karee 4,190]

Actually, a study has been done that talk about white children in single parent homes that still do better than black children. When you factor in schools that have less money funneled into them, this also plays a role.

On this we agree, money will play a big role. Blacks and Hispanics are more likely to experience poverty so they will have less chance for leniency.

It's been proven time and time again, black people with the exact credentials as their white counterparts are overlooked. That needs to be addressed.

If AA hadn't been created, do you think black and hispanic people would have been able to make any ground?

Some I agree with, some I don't.

We talked about the school thing before. Look at Camden. NJ as an example. I think they spend the 3rd highest per student of any school district in the state, yet their scores are always at the bottom. Throwing money at problems isn't always the answer. In fact in some cases it makes it worse. See generational welfare as an example of that in all races.

Last time we got into a discussion about AA, that wench started throwing hand grenades and got it shut down. Let's see what happens this time since she split. And no, I'm not letting that go.

AA is a divisive program. It pits races against each other. People should not be given any kind of preference based on race. That is racist. Bottom line. Can't have it both ways.