The Michael Brown Shooting Official Thread

[decocker 7,198]

Ok , so white people are looting and burning. I heard that earlier. I think the theory was they were disguising themselves as black people

i don't know about that but there are white people protesting. and also the kkk are on their way..

eta: interesting...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/08/18/nearly-half-of-americans-say-race-is-getting-too-much-attention-in-the-ferguson-coverage/

Edited August 18, 2014 by val erie

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

Glad you asked.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Black-Teenager-Lawsuit-Barneys-Belt-NYPD-Purchase-Detain-Fake-Identification-228915061.html

A second black customer, Kayla Phillips, came forward Wednesday, telling the New York Daily News and the New York Post that she was harassed by police after buying a $2,500 Céline handbag from the upscale store.

Phillips, a 21-year-old nursing student from Brooklyn, told the newspapers that four officers approached her in a nearby subway stop minutes after the purchase and asked her why she used a temporary debit card to buy the bag. Phillips said she had just opened a new bank account when she bought the purse.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/macy-hit-class-action-shopping-black-suit-article-1.1515744

http://marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/29/viola-davis-shopping-while-black-happens-to-her-all-the-time/

That's the story of my life," Davis said at her film's premiere. "My gosh, I mean, that's been happening since the beginning of time. I'm going to go into the store and you're just gonna have to follow me and you're gonna waste about, I don't know, an hour or half-hour of your time following me because I'm not going to steal anything.”

Thanks. So three blacks are unfairly harrassed by cops in upscale locations, and it ticks you off. As it should. But come on man, that is so little on the radar of inequality that it's not even funny. The first one and the third one, I believe. But I'd be willing to bet you money the second one, the girl that was "harrassed by cops" (not detained, cuffed, nor arrested) was jumping on the bandwagon.

Interestingly enough, Rob Brown has reached a settlement in the suit, but no details are forthcoming that I can find: http://newsone.com/3039877/treme-star-rob-brown-settles-racial-profiling-suit-against-macys/ Seems to me like if he had made some leap of progress for the black community, he would be publicly singing about it. I know I would if I were in his shoes and won.

The kid that saved his money and took the belt back? Now that is tragic in my mind. Poor kid did the right thing, and it backfired on him, and he will never forget that as long as he lives. Here's hopnig he doesn't develop a chip on his shoulder about it, though I can see why he would.

Blacks and whites alike are beaten or treated inhumanely by cops on a way-too-regular basis nowadays. Some killed, as we both posted in another thread. THAT'S why this Michael Brown thing is such a huge deal. It could easily be not about race, but some won't let it be. It's about a kid killed by a cop. Was it justified? I don't know yet, it will take some time to decide. But I can say (going by my personal gut feeling) that shooting a person multiple times is going to be hard to prove as self defense or having been done in "fear for one's life" with the current release of details we have so far.

ETA: Almost forgot my one link about whites shoplifting: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2029808/Tesco-branded-shoplifter--happen-YOU.html

Also, I don't doubt you for a minute that blacks are more likely to be looked at suspiciously than whites in situations like those above. Sad, but true.

Edited August 18, 2014 by DavenRoxy

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

well you said white people never get ruffed up or shot by the police. I proved that wrong.

I doubt I can find you an example of a white person being falsely accused of shoplifting, not because it does not happen all the time, but because when it does it does not make national news

So prove me wrong with the shopping. Be the windshield.

If some white person was to get arrested after showing ID and paying for the item, you darn skippy you'd hear about it. Hell, I've been around white people who get mad when they have to wait at a restaurant, they ready to go to the press about it. Let some white person get hauled off to jail, after showing ID and paying for the item.

Huge difference between accusing of shoplifting and being arrested.

[decocker 7,198]

i think it's probably more comfortable to say this isn't about race because so many people want racism to be over. but that just isn't reality. i maintain that you can be against police brutality against all people regardless of color and also recognize that race negatively affects black people in a way that it obviously doesn't afftect white people in this country.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Thanks. So three blacks are unfairly harrassed by cops in upscale locations, and it ticks you off. As it should. But come on man, that is so little on the radar of inequality that it's not even funny. The first one and the third one, I believe. But I'd be willing to bet you money the second one, the girl that was "harrassed by cops" (not detained, cuffed, nor arrested) was jumping on the bandwagon.

Interestingly enough, Rob Brown has reached a settlement in the suit, but no details are forthcoming that I can find: http://newsone.com/3039877/treme-star-rob-brown-settles-racial-profiling-suit-against-macys/ Seems to me like if he had made some leap of progress for the black community, he would be publicly singing about it. I know I would if I were in his shoes and won.

The kid that saved his money and took the belt back? Now that is tragic in my mind. Poor kid did the right thing, and it backfired on him, and he will never forget that as long as he lives. Here's hopnig he doesn't develop a chip on his shoulder about it, though I can see why he would.

Blacks and whites alike are beaten or treated inhumanely by cops on a way-too-regular basis nowadays. Some killed, as we both posted in another thread. THAT'S why this Michael Brown thing is such a huge deal. It could easily be not about race, but some won't let it be. It's about a kid killed by a cop. Was it justified? I don't know yet, it will take some time to decide. But I can say (going by my personal gut feeling) that shooting a person multiple times is going to be hard to prove as self defense or having been done in "fear for one's life" with the current release of details we have so far.

The girl just probably wanted some attention. There was another dude who went through the same thing, he spent about 1k at Macy's and was detained.

Rob Brown got paid, but it doesn't change a thing. Al tried to get a list of rules that stores should abide by when black people shop, but I think that's stupid. We don't need separate rules, just treat everyone the same.

That kid is never going to forget that. Hopefully he moves past it.

This happens so much within the black community, when it happens to white people we literally don't believe it. I posted this before:

Police brutality occurs for a number of reasons: the most common is racial discrimination. 89% of the people who died in NYPD custody between the years 1990 and 1994 were African American or Hispanic (Elisha, Joshua & Zenobia, 2010). Some examples of this brutality are the cases involving Rodney King, Oscar Grant III, Patrick Hall and Abner Louima. 59% of all Americans in 1999 agreed that racial discrimination was a major problem. (The Struggle Against Racial Profiling, n.d.) A study was conducted that proved that “minority citizens are stopped by the police more than white citizens but minority driven vehicles are no more likely to have drug paraphernalia than whites’ vehicles” (Lundman, 2008, p.242). Racial discrimination is the main cause of police brutality.

http://gelvers.hubpages.com/hub/Racial-Discrimination-A-Cause-Of-Police-Brutality

Edit: Just read your link. Look at what she went through. And that was within the store. She was brought to the back with security. What do you think would have happened if she had to ride in a police car and was thrown in a jail cell with cuffs on? If they vetted this kid the same way, by checking everything within the store, the fallout would have been less.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Su and Marvin

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

Rob Brown got paid, but it doesn't change a thing. Al tried to get a list of rules that stores should abide by when black people shop, but I think that's stupid. We don't need separate rules, just treat everyone the same.

I posted this before:

Police brutality occurs for a number of reasons: the most common is racial discrimination. 89% of the people who died in NYPD custody between the years 1990 and 1994 were African American or Hispanic (Elisha, Joshua & Zenobia, 2010). Some examples of this brutality are the cases involving Rodney King, Oscar Grant III, Patrick Hall and Abner Louima. 59% of all Americans in 1999 agreed that racial discrimination was a major problem. (The Struggle Against Racial Profiling, n.d.) A study was conducted that proved that “minority citizens are stopped by the police more than white citizens but minority driven vehicles are no more likely to have drug paraphernalia than whites’ vehicles” (Lundman, 2008, p.242). Racial discrimination is the main cause of police brutality.

http://gelvers.hubpages.com/hub/Racial-Discrimination-A-Cause-Of-Police-Brutality

Did he? I can't find anything about it. Makes me wonder.

Yes, I have read that before. One thing that stat doesn't mention (gotta love stats, they can be used to paint multiple scenarios) is what percentage of those in police custody were white or black. I mean, if 85% were black and 15% white, the death numbers would make a lot more sense, wouldn't it? It would mean more (one way or another) if we knew what the breakdown of prisoners were what race.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Did he? I can't find anything about it. Makes me wonder.

Yes, I have read that before. One thing that stat doesn't mention (gotta love stats, they can be used to paint multiple scenarios) is what percentage of those in police custody were white or black. I mean, if 85% were black and 15% white, the death numbers would make a lot more sense, wouldn't it? It would mean more (one way or another) if we knew what the breakdown of prisoners were what race.

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20131209/retail_apparel/131209899/sharpton-says-retailers-to-list-shoppers-rights

(AP) -- The Rev. Al Sharpton said a coalition of major retailers has agreed to create a customer "bill of rights" that will be posted in stores to help prevent racial profiling.

Mr. Sharpton said civil rights leaders met Monday with representatives from retail chains including Barneys, Macy's, Saks Fifth Avenue, Bergdorf Goodman, Lord & Taylor and The Gap.

He said the bill of rights will be posted in stores and on retailers' websites this week.

The agreement prohibits profiling and unreasonable searches. It states that workers who violate their employers' prohibition on profiling will be disciplined and could be fired.

The two groups first met last month after several black shoppers alleged they were racially profiled at Macy's and Barneys New York. The stores deny they had policies that targeted black customers.

Yep, it happened.

I think they left off the white percentage because it was kind of obvious depending on where you live. White people are victims of police brutality, but it's more common within black communities. If Rodney King were white, I'd bet my retirement those cops wouldn't have been acquitted.

[Karee 4,190]

Police brutality occurs for a number of reasons: the most common is racial discrimination. 89% of the people who died in NYPD custody between the years 1990 and 1994 were African American or Hispanic (Elisha, Joshua & Zenobia, 2010). Some examples of this brutality are the cases involving Rodney King, Oscar Grant III, Patrick Hall and Abner Louima. 59% of all Americans in 1999 agreed that racial discrimination was a major problem. (The Struggle Against Racial Profiling, n.d.) A study was conducted that proved that “minority citizens are stopped by the police more than white citizens but minority driven vehicles are no more likely to have drug paraphernalia than whites’ vehicles” (Lundman, 2008, p.242). Racial discrimination is the main cause of police brutality.

I wonder what percentage of the people in 1994 that were arrested were African American or Hispanic? I bet without even looking it was somewhere around 89%. I couldn't find the stats for 1994, but I did some looking around and found the stats for 2008 to 2012. Just browsing over those numbers I found that roughly 75-90% of the people that were arrested (depending on the crime committed) happened to be classified as African American or Hispanic. So it would make perfect sense that the number of African Americans and Hispanics that died while in custody would also be near 89%.

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

Did he? I can't find anything about it. Makes me wonder.

Yes, I have read that before. One thing that stat doesn't mention (gotta love stats, they can be used to paint multiple scenarios) is what percentage of those in police custody were white or black. I mean, if 85% were black and 15% white, the death numbers would make a lot more sense, wouldn't it? It would mean more (one way or another) if we knew what the breakdown of prisoners were what race.

I wonder what percentage of the people in 1994 that were arrested were African American or Hispanic? I bet without even looking it was somewhere around 89%. I couldn't find the stats for 1994, but I did some looking around and found the stats for 2008 to 2012. Just browsing over those numbers I found that roughly 75-90% of the people that were arrested (depending on the crime committed) happened to be classified as African American or Hispanic. So it would make perfect sense that the number of African Americans and Hispanics that died while in custody would also be near 89%.

I reckon great minds think alike. Glad to know I am not the only one who recognizes this as a possibility.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

So prove me wrong with the shopping. Be the windshield.

If some white person was to get arrested after showing ID and paying for the item, you darn skippy you'd hear about it. Hell, I've been around white people who get mad when they have to wait at a restaurant, they ready to go to the press about it. Let some white person get hauled off to jail, after showing ID and paying for the item.

Huge difference between accusing of shoplifting and being arrested.

you said white people don't get shot by the police. i posted 3 links in short order, proving you wrong, including one homeless man shot in the back. oddly you had never heard of any of them. why do you think that is .

According to your logic, this video proves that white people are brutalized by black police officers

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article19346.htm

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20131209/retail_apparel/131209899/sharpton-says-retailers-to-list-shoppers-rights

(AP) -- The Rev. Al Sharpton said a coalition of major retailers has agreed to create a customer "bill of rights" that will be posted in stores to help prevent racial profiling.

Mr. Sharpton said civil rights leaders met Monday with representatives from retail chains including Barneys, Macy's, Saks Fifth Avenue, Bergdorf Goodman, Lord & Taylor and The Gap.

He said the bill of rights will be posted in stores and on retailers' websites this week.

The agreement prohibits profiling and unreasonable searches. It states that workers who violate their employers' prohibition on profiling will be disciplined and could be fired.

The two groups first met last month after several black shoppers alleged they were racially profiled at Macy's and Barneys New York. The stores deny they had policies that targeted black customers.

Yep, it happened.

I think they left off the white percentage because it was kind of obvious depending on where you live. White people are victims of police brutality, but it's more common within black communities. If Rodney King were white, I'd bet my retirement those cops wouldn't have been acquitted.

No what it will mean, is that when an employee suspects a black person of shoplifting they will just turn there head, to not risk the being fired and labeled a racist. That is the very reason TM did not enter the justice system for his burglary . The school system was under order to reduce it young black male involvement with the justice system. Probably would have saved his life.

Our Preznit brought up that old tired, "young black men are suspended and disciplined more often in school" hoarse ####### today. well they are 3% of the population, but commit over 40% of the violent crime in this country. Do you think maybe it's possible that they act out more in the class room also . Dear god the stupidity

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I wonder what percentage of the people in 1994 that were arrested were African American or Hispanic? I bet without even looking it was somewhere around 89%. I couldn't find the stats for 1994, but I did some looking around and found the stats for 2008 to 2012. Just browsing over those numbers I found that roughly 75-90% of the people that were arrested (depending on the crime committed) happened to be classified as African American or Hispanic. So it would make perfect sense that the number of African Americans and Hispanics that died while in custody would also be near 89%.

You are explaining direct portion to percentages. You are never gonna win the battle. It's the old, there are more whites on welfare than blacks. Yes by less than 1%, but whites are over 70% of the population and blacks are only about 13%. You are never going to get them to understand that.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What about probability then? For example, that you are more likely to experience poverty as a black person in the USA than a white person?

True? False? Indicative of a problem?

What about the probability of a black man receiving an equal prison sentence to a white man for the same crime?

Greater? Lesser? About the same?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

you said white people don't get shot by the police. i posted 3 links in short order, proving you wrong, including one homeless man shot in the back. oddly you had never heard of any of them. why do you think that is .

According to your logic, this video proves that white people are brutalized by black police officers

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article19346.htm

I said it's less than black people. If Rodney King was white and the police were black, do you honestly think they would have walked?

No what it will mean, is that when an employee suspects a black person of shoplifting they will just turn there head, to not risk the being fired and labeled a racist. That is the very reason TM did not enter the justice system for his burglary . The school system was under order to reduce it young black male involvement with the justice system. Probably would have saved his life.

Our Preznit brought up that old tired, "young black men are suspended and disciplined more often in school" hoarse ####### today. well they are 3% of the population, but commit over 40% of the violent crime in this country. Do you think maybe it's possible that they act out more in the class room also . Dear god the stupidity

TM was a minor. Please post a link backing up your claim. Don't know how that would have saved his life since GZ was determined to confront him.

You are explaining direct portion to percentages. You are never gonna win the battle. It's the old, there are more whites on welfare than blacks. Yes by less than 1%, but whites are over 70% of the population and blacks are only about 13%. You are never going to get them to understand that.

Do me a favor. Address Hail's post above this one. Then we can talk.

What about probability then? For example, that you are more likely to experience poverty as a black person in the USA than a white person?

True? False? Indicative of a problem?

What about the probability of a black man receiving an equal prison sentence to a white man for the same crime?

Greater? Lesser? About the same?

Let's see what is said about this.

[Karee 4,190]

What about probability then? For example, that you are more likely to experience poverty as a black person in the USA than a white person?

True? False? Indicative of a problem?

What about the probability of a black man receiving an equal prison sentence to a white man for the same crime?

Greater? Lesser? About the same?

As to the first question, the answer is absolutely yes. Black people are definitely more likely to experience poverty than whites. However, the cause of that poverty is up for debate. Black children are much more likely to live in one parent households than other races. Maybe give that problem the same attention that racism gets.

As for prison sentences, that depends on many factors. Do they have a prior criminal history? Could they afford a decent lawyer etc? This much I know, the justice system is tilted in the favor of people that have more money. That's just a fact. Black folks make less money than white folks. See first paragraph concerning that fact. Also one of the major factors in deciding whether you get probation or a prison sentence is if you have a job and are employable. No job, and no chances to get one, off to prison. I have first hand experience with this.

The income inequality needs to be addressed. That starts with education and parenting. Screaming racism everytime something happens to a black person is a good way to make sure it is never addressed.

All of these programs over the years, affirmative action, bussing, etc. have done zero to address the income inequality. In fact I think it has increased resentment between races. I think the percentage of black folks living below the poverty line is pretty much the same as it was 30 years ago.