Bringing Mom to the US after several B1/B2 visa denials

[LonelyMom 0]

Two inappropriate posts violating the Terms of Service have been removed and one post edited to remove inappropriate comments. Please keep a civil tone when responding to posters whether you agree with them or not or whether you appreciate their participation or not. Any further inappropriate or rude responses will also be removed or edited.

Moderator's hat off . . .

Happy Chic is correct , and yes, I am a US citizen.

You may wish to consider that a non-US citizen who has successfully gone through the process of requesting, obtaining and using a visitor's visa to the US is probably a much better informed source than a US citizen who has never used or had reason to use a visitor visa. Being a US citizen does not give you an automatic edge or insight into how the Consular and Immigration processes works. Most US citizens have absolutely no idea how they work. Having personal experience of your own or from a close family member going through the process, counts. Visa Journey is based upon personal experiential knowledge and that is what our members are offering to you. If you do not wish to accept the free, qualified advice, then you are certainly free to consult with a paid, qualified professional.

The reason the Consular officer asked about your status in the US was to help determine the risk factor involved in granting your mother a visitor visa. A US citizen is able to sponsor a parent to the US, so if the parent is visiting the US, a citizen can apply for a family sponsored visa and there is a chance that the 'visitor' will never actually leave the US, but will use a visitor's visa as a short-cut to by-pass the correct immigration process. This is frowned upon but since the visitor may have a legal right to immigrate, the Consular office may or may not grant a visitor visa, depending on other risk factors.

A green card holder can also sponsor a parent but it is unlikely a visitor will be able to stay in status for the long waiting time involved in waiting for a visa to become available. If the officer does not feel the applicant has sufficient ties to their own country, the innate attitude of Consular Officers and USCIS is to believe that this individual will be an immigration risk for overstaying their visa, and a denial is the most usual response.

That is why the Consular Officer asked about your status in the US. You are considered a motivating enticement for your mother to decide not to return to her home country and to remain in the US, either legally or illegally. Grandchildren are an even stronger 'enticement'. Without strong ties to their home country which counter-balance the enticement to remain in the US - which include economic, financial, property ownership, employment, investments, familial responsibilities, etc., it is unlikely that the applicant will be granted a visitor's visa. Is it fair? No, but the Consulate officers are not concerned about being fair to foreign citizens. They are concerned about protecting US citizens from risky foreign nationals and threats (real or perceived) to the US. The preponderance of the evidence falls upon the visitor to prove they are financially self-reliant, (will not end up costing US taxpayers money if they visit the US), will not violate US laws and outstay the time allowed their visa, and have greater incentive to return home after their visa than they have enticement to remain in the US.

Your mother's new responsibilities as an employer with employees may be considered sufficient incentive to ensure her return home after a visit - or it may not.

I do not disagree with the advise. I disagree with the sarcasm involved when replying to my post.

In my post, I did not just ask for any US citizen to respond to my post. I asked a US citizen with experience on both sides of the spectrum to respond since I'm on the US citizens side of the forum.

I do not agree with the deletion of my post when others can post what they want, and you're not deleting those. Please feel free to delete the whole post and my account as well.

Thank you!

[Ning 619]

Two inappropriate posts violating the Terms of Service have been removed and one post edited to remove inappropriate comments. Please keep a civil tone when responding to posters whether you agree with them or not or whether you appreciate their participation or not. Any further inappropriate or rude responses will also be removed or edited.

Moderator's hat off . . .

Happy Chic is correct , and yes, I am a US citizen.

You may wish to consider that a non-US citizen who has successfully gone through the process of requesting, obtaining and using a visitor's visa to the US is probably a much better informed source than a US citizen who has never used or had reason to use a visitor visa. Being a US citizen does not give you an automatic edge or insight into how the Consular and Immigration processes works. Most US citizens have absolutely no idea how they work. Having personal experience of your own or from a close family member going through the process, counts. Visa Journey is based upon personal experiential knowledge and that is what our members are offering to you. If you do not wish to accept the free, qualified advice, then you are certainly free to consult with a paid, qualified professional.

The reason the Consular officer asked about your status in the US was to help determine the risk factor involved in granting your mother a visitor visa. A US citizen is able to sponsor a parent to the US, so if the parent is visiting the US, a citizen can apply for a family sponsored visa and there is a chance that the 'visitor' will never actually leave the US, but will use a visitor's visa as a short-cut to by-pass the correct immigration process. This is frowned upon but since the visitor may have a legal right to immigrate, the Consular office may or may not grant a visitor visa, depending on other risk factors.

A green card holder can also sponsor a parent but it is unlikely a visitor will be able to stay in status for the long waiting time involved in waiting for a visa to become available. If the officer does not feel the applicant has sufficient ties to their own country, the innate attitude of Consular Officers and USCIS is to believe that this individual will be an immigration risk for overstaying their visa, and a denial is the most usual response.

That is why the Consular Officer asked about your status in the US. You are considered a motivating enticement for your mother to decide not to return to her home country and to remain in the US, either legally or illegally. Grandchildren are an even stronger 'enticement'. Without strong ties to their home country which counter-balance the enticement to remain in the US - which include economic, financial, property ownership, employment, investments, familial responsibilities, etc., it is unlikely that the applicant will be granted a visitor's visa. Is it fair? No, but the Consulate officers are not concerned about being fair to foreign citizens. They are concerned about protecting US citizens from risky foreign nationals and threats (real or perceived) to the US. The preponderance of the evidence falls upon the visitor to prove they are financially self-reliant, (will not end up costing US taxpayers money if they visit the US), will not violate US laws and outstay the time allowed their visa, and have greater incentive to return home after their visa than they have enticement to remain in the US.

Your mother's new responsibilities as an employer with employees may be considered sufficient incentive to ensure her return home after a visit - or it may not.

This is incredibly clear, correct advise from possibly the MOST respected member of VJ with amazing experience in every aspect of immigration. This member took the time to give this advise which should studied at length to gain the most insight possible.

I don't have the body of experience that Kathryn has but did attempt the B 2 type visa during which my husband was advised by officers at a U S embassy which revealed exactly what Is spelled out above during the eight times he was inside the US embassy. I then entered the USA on a K 3 which led to me becoming a US citizen. Kathryn was kind enough to advise us about some aspects that were very helpful.

I have been a member of V J long enough to have helped about 35 people with B 2 visas alone. I am at a loss about what you expect members to do for you without you rejecting the advise.

[LonelyMom 0]

It seems to me that regardless of the evidence she provides, it is not guaranteed that she will get the visa, it is still left upto the CO to decide her fate. I've been involved in the entire process for my mom's visa (except going to the embassy on her behalf) and this seems to be case in her situation. I don't have a success story on the B2 visa category, but I've had a F1 visa, Greencard and became a citizen this year.

1) I don't think the problem lies in the evidence she provides. I think her interviewing skills may not have been great to articulate her motives and intentions for coming to the U.S. From what she told me, the CO didn't even look at her evidences which were plenty (Bank statements, title deeds, business deals and statements of money from those who owe her, organizations that she belongs to, family e.t.c)

2) It feels like the only way for my mom to come to the U.S would be if I petition for her, is this thinking correct? This is why I needed U.S citizens to respond. What other ways can my mom visit the U.S without a petition? She does not want to come live here permanently at the moment due to her business/government contract, but she wants to visit, meet, and spend sometime with her grandchildren.

[JohnR! 5,495]

That you are a US citizen will not affect her request for a visa directly, however, it may be just what may tip the scale in her favor.

It is true the that the IO may suspect that she is trying to come to the US with the intention to stay, however, by the same token, if she wanted to come to the US and stay, you could have applied for her IR visa which is your right to do, as a US citizen.

It really will depend on how she fares at the interview and it won't hurt her to give it another go. These sort of interviews are all but predictable.

Good luck!!

Hi everyone,

I have a question hopefully someone with great insight can help me. My mom applied for the B1/B2 visa several times in the past and was denied. I was a greencard holder then but now I'm a US citizen. I know I can petition for her to come but that would take approximately 12-18 months.

I'm really in need of her to come for a short stay and assist me with the kids. I have no other family in the US and I'm a fulltime student. What should I do in order for her to come? Do you think me being a citizen increases her chances for the B1/B2 visa this time around? The embassy she has been going to is in Nairobi - Kenya and it hasn't been easy. She is very reluctant to go there again, but I really do need her.

Thanks for any insight!

[Ning 619]

It seems to me that regardless of the evidence she provides, it is not guaranteed that she will get the visa, it is still left upto the CO to decide her fate. I've been involved in the entire process for my mom's visa (except going to the embassy on her behalf) and this seems to be case in her situation. I don't have a success story on the B2 visa category, but I've had a F1 visa, Greencard and became a citizen this year.

1) I don't think the problem lies in the evidence she provides. I think her interviewing skills may not have been great to articulate her motives and intentions for coming to the U.S. From what she told me, the CO didn't even look at her evidences which were plenty (Bank statements, title deeds, business deals and statements of money from those who owe her, organizations that she belongs to, family e.t.c)

2) It feels like the only way for my mom to come to the U.S would be if I petition for her, is this thinking correct? This is why I needed U.S citizens to respond. What other ways can my mom visit the U.S without a petition? She does not want to come live here permanently at the moment due to her business/government contract, but she wants to visit, meet, and spend sometime with her grandchildren.

These cases are really decided before the person ever steps up to the window. It sounds like she carried the evidence with her so they had decided the case already based on what was submitted in the application therefore the evidence wasn't important. She tried the same methods twice with the same results each time.

I doubt its her interview skills simply because these officers are used to people that are nervous ect. In fact the officers are trained to be patient with people.

You keep asking U S citizens to respond and we are. The advise of those who may not be citizens could just a valuable but if you want to reject it its as always up to you.

If she is to succeed she must change the way she approaches the application. Her previous denials aren't supposed to affect other attempts but I think they do unless she changes the way she does the application.

[Ning 619]

Yes, you are correct that regardless of the evidence presented, there is no guarantee of a visa outcome. Having said that, COs don't reject visas on a fancy, there is always a reason for denial. You also bring up a good point that not only the quantity and quality of evidence matters, but how one presents oneself to the CO. Is your mom too worried or anxious during the interview? Does she look at the CO in the eye when she speaks? Despite being trained to deal with cultural differences, COs do expect visa applicants to be at least coherent and look them in the eye when talking to them. In American culture, it's very important to look in the eye of the person you're talking to or else the person can interpret you as lying, faking or having no interest. Maybe this is really the only thing your mom needs to address, be confident in her interview because the evidences you listed appear to be solid for a successful tourist visa. There is no harm in attempting to get a tourist visa again if she is unwilling to permanently move to the U.S.

If what you say is correct why didn't they even look at the evidence she had? The denials were based on the inability to convince the CO that she would return based on the info on the application.

There is little in the written evidence that would result in an approval if it is banking, money owed, organizations, business deals that are the strong points because they are all easily moved, changed or ignored. Remember the O P said they never even looked at it on the other TWO attempts.

This case will have to be centered on her ability to present her ownership of a business, The contracts in place along with supporting evidence that indicate the depth of those contracts and the timing of them. Whatever she has that would be very hard to just leave behind.

The most important aspect will be how she will actually present that evidence. It wont be at the window as was the case in the other two attempts. They allowed her to come to the window as a courtesy only.

[Ning 619]

Sometimes the CO doesn't ask to see documents and hence the applicants won't show what's not being asked of them. It is precisely because the CO didn't even bother to see material evidence that I'm wondering if the CO relied on her mother's facial and bodily expressions, possibly anxious and fearful emotions and incoherent answers to the questions asked. Otherwise business deals, title deeds etc. are strong evidence to home ties. How do you easily move or ignore these things and why would you? From personal experience I can tell you my mother also owns a business and brought similar evidence that the OP listed and had no trouble getting her tourist visa in the first attempt. My mother cannot just easily move or ignore her business and why would anybody do that when it's profitable?

I understand totally what you have said about presenting the evidence. I wasn't given the chance either but in many cases I helped with after I gained more experience I help the people develop methods to do so. In every case the tourist visa was granted with one exception.

I completely disagree that it is her body language ect. She never had a chance from the beginning because as in most of these cases the decision is made long before the person steps up to the window which is exactly why she was denied twice before. I am sure she applied the same way both times. The OP said she never had a chance to present anything.

Business deals may amount to many things. If they were that important why would she leave at all? Banks move money around the world every day. I do it myself. The OP said her mother belongs to organizations. Who knows what that means? Money that is owed to her? How much? Does anyone really believe that? Or care if its ever paid back? I have loaned money to people and never saw it again so don't know what the value of that would be when it comes to proving she must come back?

Should we assume your mother is from France? If so it a much different country compared to Kenya as far a the incidence of fraud. Of course your mother could have decided to stay then sold her business or have someone operate it for her. I have seen people right here on V J do just that. Someone I know from Thailand did exactly that. Her business made a very good profit as well.

I owed three businesses in Thailand. Still own the land free and clear there. Would have had to leave behind a 8 year old during my trip to the USA. I had considerable cash in a Thai bank. None of that mattered at all. I was denied just as the OPs mother was. My husband was allowed in the embassy where he was able to speak directly to several embassy officers. The only thing that changed was the level of understanding we gained and my husbands motivation to bring myself and my daughter to the USA to become citizens.

[LonelyMom 0]

Thank you for your insight Ning and Happy Chic. My apologies for any prior misunderstandings. Just wanted answers from people who really understand this issue. My intention was not to exclude non-citizens.

To address some of the issues you asked:

1) By saying organizations, I meant she is the treasurer of their women's group and handles all the money. She also belongs to several other women's organizations.

2) Her business was not registered when she went for the interview at one time. This is not uncommon in Kenya, and she was asked about registration. She registered before going again, they didn't ask about that when she went again. She's currently on a 3 year government contract, she employs people, and pays taxes.

3) In one of the interviews, I wanted her to visit prior to the birth of my child. She went there expressing that I was really in need of her help at that time. This might have worked against her, hence my comment about her interviewing skills. She also couldn't understand the CO and had to use a translator.

4) Since you talked about her application, and I'm the one who did it for her, how much detail is required in the DS-160? What's important to write in there that we might have missed?

5)Her interviews were back to back. That's because she wanted to be present during the birth of her newest grandchild. They were less than 6 months apart. Each time she went there she corrected what was asked before but then she would be asked something new. She told me the CO were angry with her for going there several times each time with a different reason when the main reason was to be present for the birth of her grandchild.

6) She owed an equivalent of tens of thousands of U.S dollars. More money owed than she has in the account. But, she hand writes all these. This evidence was never presented anyways.

7) Finally, before one of her interviews, I talked to the congress woman's office who emailed the embassy to try to help in her visa application. The embassy's reply to them was that they do not take 3rd parties into consideration. I don't know if this hurt her chances even more.

Edited August 17, 2014 by LonelyMom

[jan22 3,056]

You have received very good information and advice in this thread, but -- at the risk of being deemed rude -- you don't seem to want to accept the reality.

It is your mother who has to show her reasons for returning to Kenya to the satisfaction of the interviewing visa officer. Multiple applications in a short period of time, with different stated reasons for the trip, raise questions, as it makes the applicant seem desperate to get to the US, in the eyes of the visa officer. Others have already addressed the going to help care for the grandchildren, if that was one of the reasons she gave.

As others have already said, your standing as a US citizen does not give you or your mother any benefit when it comes to a non-immigrant (visitor) visa. One of the reasons for inquiring about your status was to see how you got to the US. You, too, entered on a non-immigrant visa (student), yet have stayed and become a US citizen. So, even though you entered legally and, I'm sure, followed all of the laws to adjust status and eventually apply for citizenship, it is an indication that at least one member of your mother's family did not abide by the non-immigrant intent of the visa they used to enter the US. Please -- I'm not saying you did not intend to return to Kenya at the time you got the student visa; rather, your plans changed. But, since the interviewer has to, by law, assume that your mother wants to go and stay in the US until she (your mother) can convince the officer otherwise, it adds to your mother's uphill battle to show her qualifications.

The Embassy's response to the congressional inquiry really applies to anyone other than the applicant -- there is no single person who can guarantee the actions of another, even those with the best of intentions. Every individual must qualify on their own and clearly demonstrate their intentions to the officer. The fact that you could petition for her now that you are a US citizen is not at all relevant to the visa officer -- there are just way too many cases where people choose to circumvent the time involved in the legal immigration process and short-circuit it by entering on a visitor visa and then applying to adjust status for it to make a difference.

Good luck to your mother should she choose to apply again.