Toddler causes security breach at White House, delays Obama address on Iraq

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

To be fair "accidental deaths" as it were, are a lot more acceptable than "on purpose deaths." Two different things really. One is a result of irresponsible gun ownership and the other is a result of radicalism.

And what difference does that make for the dead, precisely? Are the "accidentally killed" somehow less dead?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

To be fair "accidental deaths" as it were, are a lot more acceptable than "on purpose deaths." Two different things really. One is a result of irresponsible gun ownership and the other is a result of radicalism.

I wasn't talking about these kids. I should have been more clear in what I was saying.

My jab was at how our fear of death seems to be based on what we perceive to be dangerous.

[GandD 5,966]

And what difference does that make for the dead, precisely? Are the "accidentally killed" somehow less dead?

It def makes a difference. If you are driving down the road and your tire blows leading you head on into the other lane which causes the death of a driver in another car, its an accident. You don't get charged for murder. If you walk up to a guy on the street and shoot him in the head, its a little bit different situation now isn't it? Even though both situations involve one person killing another.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

It def makes a difference. If you are driving down the road and your tire blows leading you head on into the other lane which causes the death of a driver in another car, its an accident. You don't get charged for murder. If you walk up to a guy on the street and shoot him in the head, its a little bit different situation now isn't it? Even though both situations involve one person killing another.

And yet the dead are equally dead, aren't they? Besides, blowing a tire - a real, actual accident - and a gun going off because it was loaded and in hands that it should not have been in - not a real, actual accident but a case of at least gross negligence - are hardly comparable. So when a toddler gets their hands on a firearm and kills another person with said firearm, that to me is a criminal act by the owner of said firearm. That's not an accident.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Mr. Big Dog

[GandD 5,966]

And yet the dead are equally dead, aren't they? Besides, blowing a tire - a real, actual accident - and a gun going off because it was loaded and in hands that it should not have been in - not a real, actual accident but a case of at least gross negligence - are hardly comparable. So when a toddler gets their hands on a firearm and kills another person with said firearm, that to me is a criminal act by the owner of said firearm. That's not an accident.

Its certainly criminal negligence, But its not the same as someone taking a sniper rifle to a bell tower and randomly shooting people. Criminal law almost always weighs intent. Why wouldn't it?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Its certainly criminal negligence, But its not the same as someone taking a sniper rifle to a bell tower and randomly shooting people. Criminal law almost always weighs intent. Why wouldn't it?

There's a difference for the killer, for sure. But not for the killed. They're dead one way or he other. And they probably don't care whether they were the victim of criminal negligence or premeditated homicide. They're dead. And in many of the so called accidents, the perpetrators are not even brought up on charges. That would make it worse for the families of those killed by supposed accidents.

[GandD 5,966]

There's a difference for the killer, for sure. But not for the killed. They're dead one way or he other. And they probably don't care whether they were the victim of criminal negligence or premeditated homicide. They're dead. And in many of the so called accidents, the perpetrators are not even brought up on charges. That would make it worse for the families of those killed by supposed accidents.

I mean I guess, but who cares? In the aftermath of any death for any reason, we survivors look at the incident and consider what can be done to eliminate or lessen the chance of whatever particular form of death has just occurred. We consider the frequency of the particular type of death, what the effectiveness of any preventative measures would be and the impact on the lives of the remaining living. Sometimes the solution is that its something we have to deal with. Sometimes we put measures in place. And even sometimes we eliminate the cause.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I mean I guess, but who cares? In the aftermath of any death for any reason, we survivors look at the incident and consider what can be done to eliminate or lessen the chance of whatever particular form of death has just occurred. We consider the frequency of the particular type of death, what the effectiveness of any preventative measures would be and the impact on the lives of the remaining living. Sometimes the solution is that its something we have to deal with. Sometimes we put measures in place. And even sometimes we eliminate the cause.

Or, in the case of the accidental shooting deaths, we do nothing at all and just let them continue on as if they're nothing but unavoidable tragic accidents.

[GandD 5,966]

Or, in the case of the accidental shooting deaths, we do nothing at all and just let them continue on as if they're nothing but unavoidable tragic accidents.

It depends. If someone gets drunk and walks into a train, do we have to get rid of alcohol or put up protective barriers around train tracks?

Edited August 8, 2014 by GandD

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

It depends. If someone gets drunk and walks into a train, do we have to get rid of alcohol or put up protective barriers around train tracks?

That's a problem not even close to the same scale as what I've been discussing. But we have an issue with pedestrian and bicycle safety around this area that has claimed a number of lives lately and that is something that is now being addressed by various measures. As it well should be. But for all the lives claimed by shooting "accidents" we do ... nothing at all.

[GandD 5,966]

That's a problem not even close to the same scale as what I've been discussing. But we have an issue with pedestrian and bicycle safety around this area that has claimed a number of lives lately and that is something that is now being addressed by various measures. As it well should be. But for all the lives claimed by shooting "accidents" we do ... nothing at all.

Some people think we should do "nothing at all" that's true. Some folks like me believe in stern and consistent punishment for criminal acts of negligence such as these as well as a stronger push for smart guns as a replacement for all active production guns. If the guns were incapable of being fired by a toddler, this would all go away. Now I know that the gun crowd will not agree and that's ok. They're allowed to.