Calif. lawmaker seeks ban on spanking

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

If spanking puts fear into kids, and teaches them a lesson, why, then, parents who spank, have you had to do so to your children more than once?

So, why don't we go an abolish all the correctional facilities, then? Seeing that many repeat offenders are in there, seems to be that they are of no use then. :whacko:

So kids engaging in normal pushing-the-limits behavior is comparable to repeat criminals? Wow.

That answers your question then as to why one spanking might not do the job. Wasn't that hard to figure out, was it?

[Thingee 0]

I'm going to wade into this simply because I can't resist any longer.

When you have a child that is say, 12 months old that decides that it would be lots of fun to play an electrical outlet sitting them down and having a discussion about risk isn't going to work. Saying "no, that's not safe" isn't always going to work either. All kids are different and respond to different corrections. Some kids DO respond to a 'No'..some kids respond to a very sharply spoken "NO!", and some kids need a tap on the hand combined with that sharp "NO!".

That being said, I do firmly believe that once a child enters that pre-teenhood he!! spanking, however you want to define it, should be out of bounds. I actually haven't laid a finger on my 3 elder children(10,9,8) in years...I don't have to because A. Now they DO understand fully when I explain why they're being punished, and B. Me taking away priviledges, or making them do lines(Yes, I really do that...they hate it with a passion and it helps with their handwriting) hurts more than a pop on the butt.

Now if I've misunderstood completely and what is being debated is pants pulled down, over the knee spanking for older children, or children being hit with belts, switches, etc, then disregard my statements please.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

bolded part 1 - it's asinine to believe some 6 year old will be reasonable and not to do something without the threat of corporal punishment hanging over his/her head like the sword of damocles.

bolded part 2 - perhaps in your world. in mine, it's punishment for doing wrong.

Sadly, it's attitudes like this that make it so hard to teach children that violence is not the answer to every ill. Violence breeds violence.

Discipline is required. A six year old is certainly capable of understanding the punishment of having their toys removed or other non violent punishments and will respond accordingly.

Losing control and shouting/administering violent punishments quickly leads to disrespect if used often. The child sees that you have come to the end or your rope and will manipulate you accordingly.

However, feel free to bring up your children any way you choose.

My thoughts exactly. I am cringing reading these posts wondering how anyone can raise their hand to a child, especially their own. I don't understand why the thought of it alone doesn't break a parent's heart enough to prevent any kind of hitting. I can't imagine it.

I was at the dog park this weekend and a 7 year old boy was yanking on his dog's leash, kicking her in the butt, the dog was so scared of the kid, I ran up to stop him, his mother turned around and grabbed the leash and smacked the kid across the face. The kid is supposed to learn not to be violent with his dog by example of violence against him? Or did he learn to be violent toward the animal because of violence against him? It makes no sense to teach kids this way.

i don't agree with the woman smacking the kid on the face, but a swat on the butt would have been most appropriate. it's called getting some of his own medicine.

but i'm sure the dog concerned would agree with you that the kid shouldn't have been hit at all, and should have been allowed to carry on with the unwarranted physical abuse of the animal

Charles, IMO, spanking should NEVER be about retaliation nor should it be about authoritarian rule. You're trying to teach you kids that there are negative consequences for their negative actions. Your children shouldn't behave out of fear but because they have a sense of right and wrong, and they will learn right from wrong from how a parent role models that to them - not from spanking them.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Oh, hippies, right, another stock response from the knee jerk brigade. Well done.

I have made it perfectly clear that:

1) I don't think there is any need for any more parental regulation than already exists. That is not going to make the changes that are required. Living with mixed messages is what causes the confusion and therefore lack of respect of younger people toward adults.

2) I firmly believe in adults being authoritive figures. It is spanking and physical violence against children that I do not believe in, nor do I believe it serves any useful purpsose other than relieving the immediate frustration for the parent. (or of course can be a sign of something much worse in a minornity of cases)

You both need a spanking!

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

bolded part 1 - it's asinine to believe some 6 year old will be reasonable and not to do something without the threat of corporal punishment hanging over his/her head like the sword of damocles.

bolded part 2 - perhaps in your world. in mine, it's punishment for doing wrong.

Sadly, it's attitudes like this that make it so hard to teach children that violence is not the answer to every ill. Violence breeds violence.

Discipline is required. A six year old is certainly capable of understanding the punishment of having their toys removed or other non violent punishments and will respond accordingly.

Losing control and shouting/administering violent punishments quickly leads to disrespect if used often. The child sees that you have come to the end or your rope and will manipulate you accordingly.

However, feel free to bring up your children any way you choose.

My thoughts exactly. I am cringing reading these posts wondering how anyone can raise their hand to a child, especially their own. I don't understand why the thought of it alone doesn't break a parent's heart enough to prevent any kind of hitting. I can't imagine it.

I was at the dog park this weekend and a 7 year old boy was yanking on his dog's leash, kicking her in the butt, the dog was so scared of the kid, I ran up to stop him, his mother turned around and grabbed the leash and smacked the kid across the face. The kid is supposed to learn not to be violent with his dog by example of violence against him? Or did he learn to be violent toward the animal because of violence against him? It makes no sense to teach kids this way.

i don't agree with the woman smacking the kid on the face, but a swat on the butt would have been most appropriate. it's called getting some of his own medicine.

but i'm sure the dog concerned would agree with you that the kid shouldn't have been hit at all, and should have been allowed to carry on with the unwarranted physical abuse of the animal

Charles, IMO, spanking should NEVER be about retaliation nor should it be about authoritarian rule. You're trying to teach you kids that there are negative consequences for their negative actions. Your children shouldn't behave out of fear but because they have a sense of right and wrong, and they will learn right from wrong from how a parent role models that to them - not from spanking them.

according to you. a sense of right means no azz whipping behind the woodshed. it worked for your parents, didn't it?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'm going to wade into this simply because I can't resist any longer.

When you have a child that is say, 12 months old that decides that it would be lots of fun to play an electrical outlet sitting them down and having a discussion about risk isn't going to work. Saying "no, that's not safe" isn't always going to work either. All kids are different and respond to different corrections. Some kids DO respond to a 'No'..some kids respond to a very sharply spoken "NO!", and some kids need a tap on the hand combined with that sharp "NO!".

That being said, I do firmly believe that once a child enters that pre-teenhood he!! spanking, however you want to define it, should be out of bounds. I actually haven't laid a finger on my 3 elder children(10,9,8) in years...I don't have to because A. Now they DO understand fully when I explain why they're being punished, and B. Me taking away priviledges, or making them do lines(Yes, I really do that...they hate it with a passion and it helps with their handwriting) hurts more than a pop on the butt.

Now if I've misunderstood completely and what is being debated is pants pulled down, over the knee spanking for older children, or children being hit with belts, switches, etc, then disregard my statements please.

I totally disagree. Plug your electrical outlets but if you slap them on the hand, while you may be teaching them to stay away from outlets, you're also discouraging their curiosity as they are discovering the world around them. You have to be careful you're not sending mixed messages to your children. I'm not saying parenting is easy...in fact I think it's the most difficult job in the world and your kids bring out the best and worst in you. A toddler under the age of 2 really has no cognitive way of understanding right from wrong. It's no accident that children have no long term memory nor can they be potty trained before then. Their neurological system isn't fully developed yet.

[Peikko 1,575]

I still don't see how you justify spanking as a reasonable response/punishment when there are other, well established proceedures to use when disciplining small children.

If a child repeats the same error time and time again, he/she hasn't for some reason understood that behaviour is unacceptable. To spank child every time he/she makes the same error is not going to bring about some miraculous understanding of what they did wrong.

Of course, you who believe in the quick fix spank somehow think that not spanking a child equates to doing nothing, or doing something that is somehow less effective because it doesn't produce the same element of fear as the prospect of a butt bashing?

Edited January 22, 2007 by Purple_Hibiscus

[one...two...tree 2,762]

bolded part 1 - it's asinine to believe some 6 year old will be reasonable and not to do something without the threat of corporal punishment hanging over his/her head like the sword of damocles.

bolded part 2 - perhaps in your world. in mine, it's punishment for doing wrong.

Sadly, it's attitudes like this that make it so hard to teach children that violence is not the answer to every ill. Violence breeds violence.

Discipline is required. A six year old is certainly capable of understanding the punishment of having their toys removed or other non violent punishments and will respond accordingly.

Losing control and shouting/administering violent punishments quickly leads to disrespect if used often. The child sees that you have come to the end or your rope and will manipulate you accordingly.

However, feel free to bring up your children any way you choose.

My thoughts exactly. I am cringing reading these posts wondering how anyone can raise their hand to a child, especially their own. I don't understand why the thought of it alone doesn't break a parent's heart enough to prevent any kind of hitting. I can't imagine it.

I was at the dog park this weekend and a 7 year old boy was yanking on his dog's leash, kicking her in the butt, the dog was so scared of the kid, I ran up to stop him, his mother turned around and grabbed the leash and smacked the kid across the face. The kid is supposed to learn not to be violent with his dog by example of violence against him? Or did he learn to be violent toward the animal because of violence against him? It makes no sense to teach kids this way.

i don't agree with the woman smacking the kid on the face, but a swat on the butt would have been most appropriate. it's called getting some of his own medicine.

but i'm sure the dog concerned would agree with you that the kid shouldn't have been hit at all, and should have been allowed to carry on with the unwarranted physical abuse of the animal

Charles, IMO, spanking should NEVER be about retaliation nor should it be about authoritarian rule. You're trying to teach you kids that there are negative consequences for their negative actions. Your children shouldn't behave out of fear but because they have a sense of right and wrong, and they will learn right from wrong from how a parent role models that to them - not from spanking them.

according to you. a sense of right means no azz whipping behind the woodshed. it worked for your parents, didn't it?

Come on, Charles...you're a smart guy. You tell me just what it is that you're teaching them...revenge? retaliation? Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, eh? That to me is archaic....by about 2,000 years.

Edited January 22, 2007 by Steven_and_Jinky

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

Their neurological system isn't fully developed yet.

getting some 110-120v will sure make it develop

[Thingee 0]

I'm going to wade into this simply because I can't resist any longer.

When you have a child that is say, 12 months old that decides that it would be lots of fun to play an electrical outlet sitting them down and having a discussion about risk isn't going to work. Saying "no, that's not safe" isn't always going to work either. All kids are different and respond to different corrections. Some kids DO respond to a 'No'..some kids respond to a very sharply spoken "NO!", and some kids need a tap on the hand combined with that sharp "NO!".

That being said, I do firmly believe that once a child enters that pre-teenhood he!! spanking, however you want to define it, should be out of bounds. I actually haven't laid a finger on my 3 elder children(10,9,8) in years...I don't have to because A. Now they DO understand fully when I explain why they're being punished, and B. Me taking away priviledges, or making them do lines(Yes, I really do that...they hate it with a passion and it helps with their handwriting) hurts more than a pop on the butt.

Now if I've misunderstood completely and what is being debated is pants pulled down, over the knee spanking for older children, or children being hit with belts, switches, etc, then disregard my statements please.

I totally disagree. Plug your electrical outlets but if you slap them on the hand, while you may be teaching them to stay away from outlets, you're also discouraging their curiosity as they are discovering the world around them. You have to be careful you're not sending mixed messages to your children. I'm not saying parenting is easy...in fact I think it's the most difficult job in the world and your kids bring out the best and worst in you. A toddler under the age of 2 really has no cognitive way of understanding right from wrong. It's no accident that children have no long term memory nor can they be potty trained before then. Their neurological system isn't fully developed yet.

The outlet was an example of a dangerous behavior, nothing more...Childproofing doesn't always work, would be nice if it did, but it doesn't. I disagree that's it's discouragig exploration, it's letting them know this particular area is out of bounds.

I'd be interested as to where the potty training info came from. Two of mine were trained prior to their 2nd birthday...and no, I wasn't reading their body cues..they knew how to take down their pants etc.

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

Come on, Charles...you're a smart guy. You tell me just what it is that you're teaching them...revenge? retaliation? Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, eh? That to me is archaic....by about 2,000 years.

maybe that's why i respect the law and you don't. i learned early on there is a punishment for such and that's why you discount illegals being "lawbreakers" eh?

[Peikko 1,575]

according to you. a sense of right means no azz whipping behind the woodshed. it worked for your parents, didn't it?

This has to be the stupidest response in this thread. What exactly is the point here? That because this person doesn't agree with you they were't spanked enough as a child?

maybe that's why i respect the law and you don't. i learned early on there is a punishment for such and that's why you discount illegals being "lawbreakers" eh?

I guess I spoke to soon.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

...revenge? retaliation? Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, eh? That to me is archaic....by about 2,000 years.

I thought this described the modern day American justice system pretty well.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Their neurological system isn't fully developed yet.

getting some 110-120v will sure make it develop

You're right and sometimes a little finger burn from putting the hand over an open flame is the best way for them to learn because they see a direct connection. However, when a parent sees their toddler reaching for an open flame and forcefully holds their hand near the flame until it hurst - that's jacked up! The child may be learning that the flame hurts but also that mommy or daddy would forcefully cause them pain. That's when real psychosis begins and if you think that's liberal mumbo jumbo, just talk to an FBI Profiler. It ain't mumbo jumbo when we have psycho paths in this world. They aren't hatched that way. Parents can really f##k up their children with poisonous pedogogy. Every parent owes it to themselves and their children's future to learn all they can on parenting and not just rely on how our parent's raised us.

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

according to you. a sense of right means no azz whipping behind the woodshed. it worked for your parents, didn't it?

This has to be the stupidest response in this thread. What exactly is the point here? That because this person doesn't agree with you they were't spanked enough as a child?

maybe that's why i respect the law and you don't. i learned early on there is a punishment for such and that's why you discount illegals being "lawbreakers" eh?

I guess I spoke to soon.

apparently you're too f'ing stupid to get it.