to get or not to get U.S. passport?

[Mistere 13]

I concur. I just despise unappreciative churlish trolls. I could not help myself...

Mistere: don't play into her hands. That's what you're effectively doing with your response.

[JimmyHou 613]

I was going to respond to the comment you responded to last night, but couldn't be bothered. Now, I'm glad I did not: your response is far more elegant and comprehensive than the retort I was planning on!

I wish there were more members of your calibre in this community.

Mistere: don't play into her hands. That's what you're effectively doing with your response.

Thank you very much, that's very nice of you!

I didn't think that lukaskolb's comment was offensive or anything, I just disagreed with him/her and wanted to share my feelings. To be fair, there was nothing personal in his/her comment.

It's easy to get bogged down in the negative aspects of the economy, or immigration, of the political situation in our home countries... but I think the majority of people on here are positive and hopeful... I think you have to be to be an immigrant; we're a hopeful, risk-taking bunch. That's why I'm so surprised by people who freak out at the smallest little thing... this process is so simple compared to building a successful life for yourself!

I think someone (possibly you) recently posted that the overwhelming majority of applications are approved. So we'll all get there eventually and if one day we decide to go live somewhere else, no one is stopping us from doing so.

Edit: Well... now that I've thought about it, maybe that wasn't really honest... I guess I did find the post that I replied to somewhat offensive...still... freedom of speech and all that. :-)

Edited August 8, 2014 by JimmyHou

[Darth Vader Qu 4]

JimmyHou,

I agree you with you almost entirely! My thinking is more or less the same:

1) I thought the overall onservation in the comment that started this was not offensive at all: for many, the United States is NOT the land of dreams, and the pursuit for citizenship and residency for many foreigners like you and I is born of convenience and/or a desire to be reunited with family as you rightly said. Naturalisation applicants are not automatically third-world refugees fleeing persecution and poverty. That said, the comment lost credibility when it started to insinuate people on these forums would be so willing as to sacrifice their own children to gain immigration benefits in the United States, or that Africa (a hugely diverse continent of over 50 countries and 1billion people) was a massive hell-hole filled with poverty and strife. That's when she became offensive...then, and her politically-charged indirect criticism of Federal Reserve stimulus policy.

2) I, like you, have NO idea why people who have travelled from far and wide, emigrated to this country and then successfully endured the complexities of obtaining Legal Permanent Residence freak out over a simple 21-page form and one of the single simplest set of instructions the USCIS has established. I think some people just enjoy freaking out for no reason. As long as one is informed and logical, there is absolutely no reason to mire oneself in such praanoia over such a simple process.

3) It was I who commented on the fact that the overwhelming majority of applcants get approved. USCIS policy is that Legal Permanent Residents are citizens-in-waiting, and there is push both in Congress and within USCIS to ensure that Legal Permanent residents are accorded even more respect and protections than they currently enjoy. As one immigration officer put it to me, the applicant has to give us (the USCIS) an overwhelmingly good reason to ultimately find them ineligible to naturalise and that is harder than you think.

Good luck to you in your process, JimmyHou.

Thank you very much, that's very nice of you!

I didn't think that lukaskolb's comment was offensive or anything, I just disagreed with him/her and wanted to share my feelings. To be fair, there was nothing personal in his/her comment.

It's easy to get bogged down in the negative aspects of the economy, or immigration, of the political situation in our home countries... but I think the majority of people on here are positive and hopeful... I think you have to be to be an immigrant; we're a hopeful, risk-taking bunch. That's why I'm so surprised by people who freak out at the smallest little thing... this process is so simple compared to building a successful life for yourself!

I think someone (possibly you) recently posted that the overwhelming majority of applications are approved. So we'll all get there eventually and if one day we decide to go live somewhere else, no one is stopping us from doing so.

[kehills 217]

I am fairly certain this privilege is not exclusive to citizens of the United States, so should probably not be considered when making the serious choice of whether to decline an application for United States citizenship and/or a surrender of current status of Legal Permanent Residence.

None of the things you listed were exclusive to citizens of the US, in that they're offered by countries to their citizens, to varying degrees, around the world. (Except maybe the kids thing. No interest there, so never checked international laws,...)For some people, the ability to have the US gov't pull them out of a war zone, or evacuate them in times of medical emergencies (see: West Africa, sadly), is a consideration worth having, especially depending on the ability of their home country to do the same. :-)

Edited August 8, 2014 by kehills

[BigDaddy28 228]

I'm going to try to help the person interested in this topic with my opinion. If anyone sees anything that I said wrong please feel free to correct me as I am just a human who can make mistakes.

I am a green card holder and eligible for naturalization. One issue which is a huge deterrent is double taxation.

Coming from the E.U. and considering returning permanently or temporary at some point I do not want to deal with the IRS.

What if i want to go back and never come back? sending money to the IRS every year seems like paying mafia for 'protection'

Did anybody here some similar dilemma, and how do you feel about it.

If you are a permanent resident and you work for the government overseas you still have to pay taxes. Paying taxes on international income is not only obligatory on US citizens but LPRs as well. Now you have to make the decision to go for citizenship or not, as you can see in the news the congress is looking into making laws that will punish a US citizen if he/she wants to renounce US citizenship to avoid paying taxes. You have to remember though that there is a threshold that you have to surpass in order to pay taxes if you work overseas. I'm not sure if it's the same for every country but in Dubai it's $95,000. If you make under that you don't have to pay taxes if you are married and have kids of course threshold is higher. You can as said before check about taxation laws between US and your country and you might be forgiven from paying taxes in one of them.

think about it and see what suits you. You are not obligated to apply for citizenship but it will give you privilages: coming back whenever you want here without a visa or wait, services that are available only for Americans in case of need...

Good luck.

I can see how many of you guys, coming from Africa or other extremely undeveloped places see the USA as the promised land willing to sacrifice your first-born for it. However this is not the country it was 50 years ago and things do not look very good. Once the almighty U.S. dollar transforms into oven burning material, and you have military tanks driving on the streets, the bubble will burst for most.

I don't think that people can sacrifice their birth country even if they wanted to. I'm Tunisian and I will be always Tunisian for life. Do I love the US? Of course. This country gave me chances I know it would be hard but not impossible to achieve in my home country. I'm married, have kids, own cars, own house, have a descent job with a descent income and if I was in my home country I would be still looking for a job, don't own a house, maybe own a motorcycle and no wife and no kids because I still can't afford it lol. Now I tell you one thing the US won't be able to give me, the environment that I had in my home country. Meaning: relationship between friends, having a lot of family around me... I mean I have friends here don't get me wrong but I had friends in my home country who I grew up with. if you expect something to be the same after 50 years you are wrong. I know the economy is not as good but trust me it's not the worst in the world. And its not only people who are from Africa who want to come here, I got a lot of friends who live in Europe and they dream of coming to the US. No offense to the people from Europe (I want to visit a lot of countries there) But the US is one of the best countries in the world, you can't deny that. and yes the US will provide security, help in hard situations while you are overseas while no other country will do the same for you (maybe some will do it but not all).

[onye uwaoma 131]

When you move away from the US, you don't lose the rights of being a US citizen, you can still vote, you can go to a consulate and renew your passport, you can contact the nearest embassy if you get in trouble in a foreign country, your children may possibly automatically become US citizens, you will be free to visit without worrying about visas, and if you move back, you could be eligible for government benefits. In return, you pay taxes.

However, if you don't want any of those things, you can renounce your US citizenship if you are over 18. You need to go to a US consulate and fill out a form. They will get the required approvals, notify the State Department that you are no longer an American, and invalidate your passport (I believe they let you keep it, but they'll stamp it and punch holes in it). Once you are no longer a US citizen and you love abroad, you won't have to worry about US taxes (except for any already owed).

If you decide to move back to Europe and never return, that would be an option. However, if you decide to move back to the US you will need a visa (for example an H-1B) or will need a relative or employer to sponsor you for permanent residency.

So I'd say, if you're pretty sure you're moving back to Europe, save your time and money and don't apply for citizenship in the first place. But if it's a 50-50 chance that you'll be moving back ten or fifteen years from now, go ahead and apply; if you move away in the future and the tax burden proves to be onerous, you can renoune your citizenship.

Just note that I don't know if renouncing citizenship would have an adverse effect on your ability to get approval to enter the US in the future... I don't know why it would, but I can see an immigration agent at an airport or a consular official giving you a hard time for it.

I would think renouncing your citizenship to evade tax is good enough to technically ban you from ever coming back. just my opinion

[JimmyHou 613]

I would think renouncing your citizenship to evade tax is good enough to technically ban you from ever coming back. just my opinion

I don't think the tax issue would be a problem. When you renounce your citizenship you have to pay what some people call an "exit tax". This is just any tax you currently owe (or would have owed on next year's tax return) plus the tax you would owe if you sold stocks you purchased while living in the US. So effectively, you don't owe anything. After that point, you also don't get any benefits or government representation, so you have no obligation to pay taxes. So there's no evasion because you have no rights or responsibilities of being an American.

It's just like people who give up their green cards and are then free to apply again years later... in the interim they pay no taxes.

I think a bigger issue may be allegiance to the country... it seems that if you've renounced citizenship once, you'd renounce it again if any of the things you promised to do in your oath of citizenship was ever actually required of you.

But I can see how either one might cause an issue... That was just my opinion.

I wonder of there are many cases of people who renounced citizenship and tried to get it back.

[BalooSL 3]

BTw, once they clear your check for passport, how fast approximately you get passport? is there any idea from anyone?