to get or not to get U.S. passport?

[lukaskolb 0]

I am a green card holder and eligible for naturalization. One issue which is a huge deterrent is double taxation.

Coming from the E.U. and considering returning permanently or temporary at some point I do not want to deal with the IRS.

What if i want to go back and never come back? sending money to the IRS every year seems like paying mafia for 'protection'

Did anybody here some similar dilemma, and how do you feel about it.

[NikLR 13,232]

If there is a tax treaty with the US you wouldn't pay double taxes as long as you made under the threshold. If you plan on permanently moving you can also give up citizenship to avoid the tax issue. As I've read in magazines like Time, more and more Americans who live overseas, and make oodles of money, have done this to avoid the double taxation you mention.

[kzielu 1,154]

I am a green card holder and eligible for naturalization. One issue which is a huge deterrent is double taxation.

Coming from the E.U. and considering returning permanently or temporary at some point I do not want to deal with the IRS.

What if i want to go back and never come back? sending money to the IRS every year seems like paying mafia for 'protection'

Did anybody here some similar dilemma, and how do you feel about it.

How about exclusions and double tax treaty which without exists between US and PL (other countries as well) ?

[lukaskolb 0]

How about exclusions and double tax treaty which without exists between US and PL (other countries as well) ?

that is fine, unless you make more then around 100k USD

lets say you make 150k, and pay 25% polish tax, you need to pay 10% on 50k to IRS (vague estimate)

[JimmyHou 613]

I am a green card holder and eligible for naturalization. One issue which is a huge deterrent is double taxation.

Coming from the E.U. and considering returning permanently or temporary at some point I do not want to deal with the IRS.

What if i want to go back and never come back? sending money to the IRS every year seems like paying mafia for 'protection'

Did anybody here some similar dilemma, and how do you feel about it.

When you move away from the US, you don't lose the rights of being a US citizen, you can still vote, you can go to a consulate and renew your passport, you can contact the nearest embassy if you get in trouble in a foreign country, your children may possibly automatically become US citizens, you will be free to visit without worrying about visas, and if you move back, you could be eligible for government benefits. In return, you pay taxes.

However, if you don't want any of those things, you can renounce your US citizenship if you are over 18. You need to go to a US consulate and fill out a form. They will get the required approvals, notify the State Department that you are no longer an American, and invalidate your passport (I believe they let you keep it, but they'll stamp it and punch holes in it). Once you are no longer a US citizen and you love abroad, you won't have to worry about US taxes (except for any already owed).

If you decide to move back to Europe and never return, that would be an option. However, if you decide to move back to the US you will need a visa (for example an H-1B) or will need a relative or employer to sponsor you for permanent residency.

So I'd say, if you're pretty sure you're moving back to Europe, save your time and money and don't apply for citizenship in the first place. But if it's a 50-50 chance that you'll be moving back ten or fifteen years from now, go ahead and apply; if you move away in the future and the tax burden proves to be onerous, you can renoune your citizenship.

Just note that I don't know if renouncing citizenship would have an adverse effect on your ability to get approval to enter the US in the future... I don't know why it would, but I can see an immigration agent at an airport or a consular official giving you a hard time for it.

[kehills 217]

When you move away from the US, you don't lose the rights of being a US citizen, you can still vote, you can go to a consulate and renew your passport, you can contact the nearest embassy if you get in trouble in a foreign country, your children may possibly automatically become US citizens, you will be free to visit without worrying about visas, and if you move back, you could be eligible for government benefits. In return, you pay taxes.

...can be automatically evacuated in times of war, if you come down with an infectious disease or otherwise need medical treatment, etc,...

[Darth Vader Qu 4]

I am a green card holder and eligible for naturalization. One issue which is a huge deterrent is double taxation.

Coming from the E.U. and considering returning permanently or temporary at some point I do not want to deal with the IRS.

What if i want to go back and never come back? sending money to the IRS every year seems like paying mafia for 'protection'

Did anybody here some similar dilemma, and how do you feel about it.

The issue is less about whether or not to get a passport, but understanding whether you would like to surrender your current Legal Permanent Resident status. You have stated that you are currently a green cardholder; under the current IRS code, you are still obligated to remit taxes on all worldwide income despite the fact that you are not yet a United States citizen. Therefore, if you are truly set on permanently relocating abroad, and are truly set on avoiding any tax obligation to the United States, you should research methods to surrender your Legal Permanent Resident status.

[Darth Vader Qu 4]

...can be automatically evacuated in times of war, if you come down with an infectious disease or otherwise need medical treatment, etc,...

I am fairly certain this privilege is not exclusive to citizens of the United States, so should probably not be considered when making the serious choice of whether to decline an application for United States citizenship and/or a surrender of current status of Legal Permanent Residence.

[JimmyHou 613]

I am fairly certain this privilege is not exclusive to citizens of the United States, so should probably not be considered when making the serious choice of whether to decline an application for United States citizenship and/or a surrender of current status of Legal Permanent Residence.

True... but I'm pretty sure that while both governments may want to protect their citizens, the government of the US will probably prove to be considerably more effective than the government of Egypt if at some time in the future I find myself stuck in Switzerland during a hypothetical Lichtensteinian attack.

;-)

My apologies to all VJers from Switzerland and Lichtenstein!

Edited August 7, 2014 by JimmyHou

[Darth Vader Qu 4]

True... but I'm pretty sure that while both governments may want to protect their citizens, the government of the US will probably prove to be considerably more effective than the government of Egypt if at some time in the future I find myself stuck in Switzerland during a hypothetical Lichtensteinian attack.

;-)

My apologies to all VJers from Switzerland and Lichtenstein!

I believe the Original Poster is a Polish national.

[JimmyHou 613]

More seriously though, I remember an old Egyptian-American friend of mine telling me about being evacuated from Dahran during the First Iraq War. I think they were probably a little paranoid considering the situation, but her family was put on a military transport and flown to Italy.

I never thought to ask her if the Pentagon billed them for the flight. Darn!

[lukaskolb 0]

I can see how many of you guys, coming from Africa or other extremely undeveloped places see the USA as the promised land willing to sacrifice your first-born for it. However this is not the country it was 50 years ago and things do not look very good. Once the almighty U.S. dollar transforms into oven burning material, and you have military tanks driving on the streets, the bubble will burst for most.

[JimmyHou 613]

I can see how many of you guys, coming from Africa or other extremely undeveloped places see the USA as the promised land willing to sacrifice your first-born for it. However this is not the country it was 50 years ago and things do not look very good. Once the almighty U.S. dollar transforms into oven burning material, and you have military tanks driving on the streets, the bubble will burst for most.

Actually about half the people on here are immigrating so they can be with their loved ones; parents, children, or spouses. I think that's the exact opposite of sacrificing your first born for it.

The other half have found good jobs and are living a better life here than in their home countries. Could things be better economically? Yeah, but a lot of people are doing just fine. Just like other immigrants are going to Canada and Australia because there are opportunities there. It doesn't make those those countries heaven-on-earth, it just makes them the right place to be for certain people. I'm sorry that some people aren't doing as well as they used to be, but many of us are doing really well.

Citizens of Canada and the United Kingdom are among those banned from applying for the Diversity Lottery because those countries both already send too many immigrants to the US every year. These are hardly extremely underdeveloped places.

People immigrate for many reasons. I remember an American-born university professor I had in Cairo who was heartbroken when his contract wasn't renewed after 6 years. He had married an Egyptian and fell in love with the country, but they had to leave because he couldn't find another job. Egypt is certainly no land of economic opportunity, but it's where he wanted to be.

As for the US not being the country it used to be, I'm sure most of the African immigrants on here are very grateful for that. Going to an oath ceremony with segregated seating for "white" and "colored" applicants wouldn't have been very appealing.

And that's only if these African immigrants ever made it to an oath ceremony. Before Lyndon Johnson signed the 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act, most Africans and Asians who were not direct relatives of US citizens were banned from even applying. There was a country-by-country quota system which heavily favored Western Europeans.

So we'll see where things are 50 years from now, but today, let's just concentrate on reuniting our families and working hard at our jobs. I don't expect America to promise me anything other than an opportunity to try.

As with everyone on here, I wish you the best on your immigration journey.

Edited August 8, 2014 by JimmyHou

[Mistere 13]

Go back and never come back. Stay away for a long time and give up your LPR status. There are plenty of people that want to be here and dying to be here. I think it's very simple. Why stay here if you don't like or want to be here?

I am a green card holder and eligible for naturalization. One issue which is a huge deterrent is double taxation.

Coming from the E.U. and considering returning permanently or temporary at some point I do not want to deal with the IRS.

What if i want to go back and never come back? sending money to the IRS every year seems like paying mafia for 'protection'

Did anybody here some similar dilemma, and how do you feel about it.

[Darth Vader Qu 4]

I was going to respond to the comment you responded to last night, but couldn't be bothered. Now, I'm glad I did not: your response is far more elegant and comprehensive than the retort I was planning on!

I wish there were more members of your calibre in this community.

Mistere: don't play into her hands. That's what you're effectively doing with your response.

Actually about half the people on here are immigrating so they can be with their loved ones; parents, children, or spouses. I think that's the exact opposite of sacrificing your first born for it.

The other half have found good jobs and are living a better life here than in their home countries. Could things be better economically? Yeah, but a lot of people are doing just fine. Just like other immigrants are going to Canada and Australia because there are opportunities there. It doesn't make those those countries heaven-on-earth, it just makes them the right place to be for certain people. I'm sorry that some people aren't doing as well as they used to be, but many of us are doing really well.

Citizens of Canada and the United Kingdom are among those banned from applying for the Diversity Lottery because those countries both already send too many immigrants to the US every year. These are hardly extremely underdeveloped places.

People immigrate for many reasons. I remember an American-born university professor I had in Cairo who was heartbroken when his contract wasn't renewed after 6 years. He had married an Egyptian and fell in love with the country, but they had to leave because he couldn't find another job. Egypt is certainly no land of economic opportunity, but it's where he wanted to be.

As for the US not being the country it used to be, I'm sure most of the African immigrants on here are very grateful for that. Going to an oath ceremony with segregated seating for "white" and "colored" applicants wouldn't have been very appealing.

And that's only if these African immigrants ever made it to an oath ceremony. Before Lyndon Johnson signed the 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act, most Africans and Asians who were not direct relatives of US citizens were banned from even applying. There was a country-by-country quota system which heavily favored Western Europeans.

So we'll see where things are 50 years from now, but today, let's just concentrate on reuniting our families and working hard at our jobs. I don't expect America to promise me anything other than an opportunity to try.

As with everyone on here, I wish you the best on your immigration journey.