Israel-Gaza conflict: What has Israel achieved in 26 bloody days?

[Expat1 971]

As noted earlier, no combination of words, articles, facebook pages, posters, cartoons, editorials, or anything else changes that fact that this is just a gang of thieves oppressing their victims.

American values (at least in my America): If you get popped robbing someone it's tough schicht + you get prosecuted anyway. It's best to learn that principle long before you or anyone else from over there sells the "because of who we are one set of rules applies to us and another set applies to them" master race BS bill of goods that is being puked all over the internet.

My opinion? Cut Israel off economically just like Russia (and if you break it down it's by golly for the same reasons) until Israel learns to deal fairly with and compromise with the people around them. This lesson in what it takes to be independent is as good for Israel as a solid right hook is good for every small-time playground bully.

Summary: Long term lessons in playing well with others are well worth the investment in the time and energy delivering the occasional spanking it takes to get them.

Just one opinion. Unfortunately that opinion is rising fast and your views are becoming more and more unpopular (as your desperate post after post after post of meaningless nonsense reflects). You have a mind and hopefully it isn't damaged by inbreeding or misuse. Use it. Type your own views.

[OriZ 3,157]

By shooting again and refusing to extend the cease fire Hamas has proven yet again that it is not only homicidal but also suicidal. I guess Gaza didn't get damaged enough for them. Oh well.

[Hei Guizi 21]

Well they keep telling us that they love death more than their enemies love life.

Oh well. bah bye

[lostinblue 1,989]

[Jacque67 7,328]

I love dead fish.

[lostinblue 1,989]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGmB3rju05U

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Isn't most of Gaza a residential area?

Edited August 8, 2014 by Hail Ming!

[Boiler 45,740]

I would say mixed use.

[Hotter Otter 1,211]

I found the following story interesting, looks like a lot of those civilians claimed killed by Israel were maybe not civilians....

War zones are not easy places to collect statistics.

In the Gaza conflict, most news organisations have been quoting from the office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR), which leads a group of humanitarian organisations known as the Protection Cluster.

Its recent report said that as of 6 August, 1,843 Palestinians had been killed and 66 Israelis and one Thai national since Israel launched Operation Protective Edge on 8 July.

Of those Palestinians, the status of 279 could not be identified, at least 1,354 were civilians, including 415 children and 214 women, the UN body reported.

So there were 216 members of armed groups killed, and another 725 men who were civilians. Among civilians, more than three times as many men were killed as women, while three times as many civilian men were killed as fighters.

The UN report carries a caveat with its figures: "Data on fatalities and destruction of property is consolidated by the Protection and Shelter clusters based on preliminary information, and is subject to change based on further verifications."

There has been some research suggesting that men in general are more likely to die in conflict than women, although no typical ratio is given.

Nonetheless, if the Israeli attacks have been "indiscriminate", as the UN Human Rights Council says, it is hard to work out why they have killed so many more civilian men than women.

Matthias Behnk, from OHCHR, told BBC News that the organisation would not want to speculate about why there had been so many adult male casualties, adding that because they were having to deal with a lot of casualties in a short time, they had "focused primarily on recording the casualties".

"As such, we have not at this stage conducted a detailed analysis of trends of civilian casualties, for example in relation to the reasons why different groups are affected and the types of incidents, but hope to carry this out at some point in the coming future," he said.

"However, even in the compiling of these preliminary figures, we cross-verify between different sources, not only media and several different human rights organisations, but also use other sources, including, for example, names of alleged fighters released by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) and notices by armed groups in Gaza claiming someone as a member."

A number of other news organisations have been considering the civilian-to-fighter ratio.

An analysis by the New York Times looked at the names of 1,431 casualties and found that "the population most likely to be militants, men ages 20 to 29, is also the most overrepresented in the death toll. They are 9% of Gaza's 1.7 million residents, but 34% of those killed whose ages were provided."

"At the same time, women and children under 15, the least likely to be legitimate targets, were the most underrepresented, making up 71% of the population and 33% of the known-age casualties."

The list of names and ages of the dead published by al-Jazeera also found men aged between 20 and 29 to be significantly overrepresented.

The IDF say they have killed at least 253 Hamas operatives, 147 Islamic Jihad operatives, 65 "operatives of various organisations" and 603 "operatives whose affiliation is unknown", although they also stress that this is not a final number.

Spokesman Capt Eytan Buchman told BBC News that "the UN numbers being reported are, by and by large, based on the Gaza health ministry, a Hamas-run organisation".

He said that part of the reason for the discrepancy between the figures was "when militants are brought to hospitals, they are brought in civilian clothing, obscuring terrorist affiliations".

"Hamas also has given local residents directives to obscure militant identities," he said.

"It's important to bear in mind that in Operation Cast Lead [the last Israeli ground offensive in December 2008-January 2009], Hamas and Gaza-based organisations claimed that only 50 combatants were killed, admitting years later the number was between 600-700, a figure nearly identical to the figure claimed by the IDF."

In conclusion, we do not yet know for sure how many of the dead in Gaza are civilians and how many were fighters. This is in no sense the fault of the UN employees collecting the figures - their statistics are accompanied by caveats and described as preliminary and subject to to revision.

But it does mean that some of the conclusions being drawn from them may be premature.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The article I read suggested that Civilian casualties didn't necessarily dissuade the IDF attacking a target. Not saying that they have done this in all cases, but you're bombarding an area with artillery you can't be too surprised that there's collateral damage.

[Boiler 45,740]

The article I read suggested that Civilian casualties didn't necessarily dissuade the IDF attacking a target. Not saying that they have done this in all cases, but you're bombarding an area with artillery you can't be too surprised that there's collateral damage.

Of course not, hardly anything new.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Of course not, hardly anything new.

It's not. I just think it's questionable that the IDF washes its hands of civilians deaths when it uses tactics which guarantee them.

[Boiler 45,740]

What tactic would you recommend?

I assume we are discussing counter battery fire.

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

It's not. I just think it's questionable that the IDF washes its hands of civilians deaths when it uses tactics which guarantee them.

They don't choose where the missiles are stored, fired from, or the tunnels built.. Hamas is not 100% responsible but mid to high 90's at minimum.

You saw the video - They are being shot at by several windows at a hospital, they call the hospital director and ask if everyone is out.. they ask again... they then take out the building.

What exact IDF tactics are you talking about? I am starting to seriously think you are just trolling....

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

They don't choose where the missiles are stored, fired from, or the tunnels built.. Hamas is not 100% responsible but mid to high 90's at minimum.

You saw the video - They are being shot at by several windows at a hospital, they call the hospital director and ask if everyone is out.. they ask again... they then take out the building.

What exact IDF tactics are you talking about? I am starting to seriously think you are just trolling....

Using artillery against civilian centres, knowing that civilians are there?

The thing is everyone can find justifications for one side or the other. I'm only concerned about the civilian deaths and the fact that neither Israel or some posters here are prepared to admit and kind of responsibility. It's all the other sides fault.

Bs.