Israel-Gaza conflict: What has Israel achieved in 26 bloody days?

[LibCampFireClub 635]

Oh yeah you were the guy who was going to "expose my anti-Semitic rants". Where'd ya go hotshot?

We saw you hiding in the hospitals behind women and children while ranting about how your people are getting their a s s es kicked.

Ouch! Too bad, so sad. That's what happens when you take potshots with little rockets, dig tunnels, and threaten your neighbor. Now you whine about getting kicked in the nuts.

Edited August 17, 2014 by ExExpat

[OriZ 3,157]

This is REALLY REALLY worth the watch. When I see the soldier giggling and making fun of a wounded kid he shot on the street I think of Oriz and his drinking games.

http://thoughtcatalog.com/james-b-barnes/2014/08/random-video-shows-the-idf-shooting-some-people-possibly-kids-and-laughing-about-it/

Already debunked. You seriously need to try and keep up.

Oriz -

"My Grandmother was born in Haifa in 1923, and generations before her lived in the area so the land is as much hers as it is anyone else`s."

http://www.visajourn...-9#entry5857809

What was that you said earlier in the thread about a tent and Russia?

This is what people that have no good argument do. They nit-pick your words, and god forbid if you innocently worded something wrong. Generations before her - not her own family, but of Jews...the point of the matter was, they did not only arrive in the late 40's. I tell the same thing about them arriving from Russia, living in a tent, and having what little bit they had stolen from them by the Arabs time and time again - in those same pages back then - but I doubt you're not going to go search for that too, now, are you?

[Josh W 3]

You aren't capable of answering questions.

So talent and hard work leading to prosperity coupled with the open practice of both political and economic exclusionism does not really work out does it.

Warning: Graphic footage of cold-blooded murder of random people on the street

You support terrorists who target, kidnap, and torture children (Aussie documentary)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5AkFlAeCHE

You support terrorists who gun down unarmed teenagers walking in the street doing NOTHING (security camera video and here is the film - one camera on the teen and a CNN camera on the soldier)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaibEqx2m_k

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/cnn-camera-catches-israeli-soldier-who-fired-killed-palestinian-teen

Just walking in the street. Dead. Sport-shot. Soldier filmed doing it.

The terrorists you support not only sport-shoot their unarmed victims but they celebrate it, right on film. In my mind with your laughing and drinking games that's you.

Footage has emerged of Israeli soldiers apparently shooting a Palestinian teenager in the leg in the volatile West Bank city of Hebron before congratulating each other and mimicking the pained reaction of the victim.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/video-israeli-soldiers-celebrate-shooting-palestinian-teen-1460932

Now Im going to stop playing games with you. These things were not done in your homeland defending your home they are done in someone else's homeland on someone else's property across someone else's border. Open, celebrated murder. Don't waste your time coming in here crying "self-defense" anymore. I accused Israel of randomly shooting people in their own homes and you laughed about it and justified it. There it is. It's not funny and you're not funny either. No, you and people like you are not welcome as my neighbor. Sorry. Play that sht over in the US and you'll get kicked out of there too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax-Jk2iJL0k

I'm on their side and Israel needs to get out of their home.

More Palywood episodes for the masses.

[Josh W 3]

Nah it applies to soldiers who lay on rooftops taking out unarmed teenagers on CNN. Right.

I wish I could congratulate the soldier for shooting the "unarmed and peaceful" teenager

[OriZ 3,157]

[OriZ 3,157]

Years ago I watched a Travel Channel TV show called No Reservations, hosted by chef and charmer Anthony Bourdain.

Bourdain would travel the world, getting getting drunk, eating, and swearing. He was filming “Beruit,” Episode 14 of Season Two, when the Second Lebanon War (July 12 to August 14, 2006) began.

This war was entirely the responsibility of the terrorist organization Hezbollah, which wanted to kidnap Israeli soldiers. On July 12, 2006, Hezbollah fired rockets at several Israeli towns as a diversion. While the Israelis were thus distracted, Hezbollah ambushed two Humvees with an antitank missile. The Humvees were inside Israel, or course, so this was an unprovoked attack on a sovereign nation. Three Israeli soldiers were killed and two were kidnapped and taken to Lebanon.

The Israelis responded with a full-fledged invasion. They blew the hell out Lebanon’s infrastructure and killed over 500 Hezbollah fighters. In the process of fighting the war, the Israelis also killed 1191 Lebanese civilians.

Well, here’s what Hassan Nasrallah—the leader of Hezbollah—said after the war.

We did not think, even one percent, that the capture would lead to a war at this time and of this magnitude. You ask me, if I had known on July 11 that the operation would lead to such a war, would I do it? I say no, absolutely not.

There. Right from the horse’s mouth. Massive retaliation works. It’s the only thing terrorists respect. Hezbollah hasn’t done much at all to Israel since 2006.

Since then the Israelis have completely retrained their military, built new weapons and technologies, and created bomb shelters for their entire population. The Israeli Defense Forces of today have about ten times the capabilities that they had in 2006. By being so heavily armed, Israel saves lives. Hamas still pulls the tiger’s tail, but maybe after this war, the Palestinians will have had enough.

At the end of No Reservations Episode 14, Season Two, Anthony Bourdain blubbered out a truly offensive yet moronic statement. I can’t remember it precisely, so I have to paraphrase it.

This war has finally made me lose my faith in humanity.

Really? In the Second Lebanon War, the civilian death toll was 1191. Here are just SOME of the conflicts Anthony Bourdain has lived through, followed by the number of people killed.

Vietnam War (1.7 million)

Ethiopian civil wars (2 million)

Biafran war (1 million)

Bangladesh Liberation War (1.3 million)

Khmer Rouge subjugation of Cambodia (1.6 million)

Mozambique civil war (1 million)

Angolan civil war (500,000)

Soviet occupation of Afghanistan (1.8 million)

Iran-Iraq War (1 million)

Yugoslav Wars (140,000)

1994 Rwandan genocide (1 million)

Sudanese civil war (1.9 million)

Somali wars (500,000)

Congolese wars (3.8 million)

Somehow the deaths of all those millions didn’t shake Bourdain’s faith in humanity, but the Second Lebanon War made him lose it. What could be the reason?

It starts with a “J,” ends with an “S,” and has an “E” and a “W” in the middle. When “those people” are allowed to defend themselves, it makes a guy lose his faith in humanity, huh?

And for astronaut Alexander Gerst, here’s a much sadder photo than the one you tweeted.

That’s South Korea on the right. The black mass with one dot is North Korea. That dot is Pyongyang, where the dictator Kim Jong-Un lives in his palaces. He has at least thirty-three like this one.

There are actual, genuine, Nazi-style death camps in North Korea. When the citizens aren’t being starved by their piggish dictator—may he die soon of heart disease, cancer, and diabetes—they’re being murdered. A favorite method of “execution” is to fill the person’s mouth with rocks, tape it shut, and then beat the victim with a rifle butt, breaking teeth and bones until the condemned drowns in his or her own blood.

And yet you people care only about Israel. You need psychiatric help.

http://www.thomaswictor.com/propaganda-from-space/

and some more pallywood.

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/pa-left-intl-media-continue-to-cite-pallywood-video/2014/05/29/

Edited August 18, 2014 by OriZ

[OriZ 3,157]

The disparity of attention and casualties among global conflicts

LARGE demonstrations in support of Gaza are taking place across Europe. Unease about the situation in Ukraine consumes people's minds. Though it has long been known that there is little correlation between the attention paid to conflicts and their level of casualties, the disparity is depressing. Since the start of the year, an estimated 30,000 people have died in Syria, about 20 times the number in Ukraine—though the latter gets far more attention in terms of Google searches. Likewise, the war in Iraq resulted in thousands of deaths so far this year. Yet it was largely out of mind until June, when the Islamic State offensive intensified, and again last week, as America announced air strikes. Searches for Gaza and Israel have waned over the past fortnight, as searches for Iraq and Syria picked up. And some conflicts get almost no attention at all. At least 2,500 have died in the Central African Republic this year, but Google searches for the African country (not shown) have been basically non-existent.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2014/08/daily-chart-6

[Expat1 971]

god forbid if you innocently worded something wrong.

Where I'm from "innocently wording something wrong" like that is actually lying. If you think I'm out of words you're numb, just wanted you to know that from my perspective when I address you I am addressing you as someone I know will lie to make his points, just in case you make the mistake of thinking I would trust or believe anything you or the people who publish the propaganda and cartoons you puke on here would say.

So in one thread on here "my grandmother was born in Haifa so she's entitled to land" and in another thread on here "my grandmother was asked to leave Russia so she's entitled to land for that too" means that on one hand you also believe that the Palestinians who were ALSO born in Haifa are NOT entitled to land because they are non-Jews and on the other hand JUST because she was a Jew, not born there, she's entitled to land anyway.

That pretty much summarizes the Zionist movement.

Playing out on film, and pick it - BBC, CNN, AlJazeera - it's not looking so good. Supporting ISIS over it is pi$$ing countries off that were previously uninvolved and who cares how many Christians or non-Jews get killed as long as Hamas eventually gets taken out? It is unwise to trade ISIS for Hamas but thinking ahead isn't really one of the strong traits over there.

I gotta go to work. Afterwards, I'll come back and e-slap your lying little self around some more.

[OriZ 3,157]

Her FAMILY came from Russia. She was born IN Haifa in 1923. It's really not that difficult to understand.

Yet another ridiculous claim. Israel is supporting Isis. LOL.

And that is not why she would be entitled to the land. This is why - quick history lesson:

With the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE, the Second Jewish Commonwealth came to an end. From then until modern times, what had been Judah, and was renamed Palestina by the Romans, was only an appendage to one empire or another, never an independent country.

~~~~~~~~~~

San Remo

Jewish legal rights in the land in modern times began with the San Remo Conference and resultant San Remo resolution, which has been called the Jewish Magna Carta.

For centuries, Palestine had been part of the (Turkish, Muslim) Ottoman Empire. With the end of WWI, the land of that Empire was taken by the Allies. Great Britain, France, Italy and Japan, with the US as observer, met in San Remo, Italy, to decide how it would be divided: Palestine was put under British Mandatory rule.

Read: San Remo Conference (April 1920)

~~~~~~~~~~

Balfour Declaration

At San Remo it was decided to incorporate the Balfour Declaration into Britain's mandate. The Declaration, in the form of a letter, was an endorsement by the British government of the establishment of a Jewish home in Palestine. Written in 1917 by the British Foreign Secretary Lord Balfour, and sent to Lord Rothschild, it stated:

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, , and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object."

Full text of letter: The Balfour Declaration

~~~~~~~~~~

By "Right"

In June 1922, Winston Churchill, who was then British Secretary of State for the Colonies, wrote in a policy paper that:

"...in order that this community should have the best prospect of free development and provide a full opportunity for the Jewish people to display its capacities, it is essential that it should know that it is in Palestine as of right and not on sufferance."

Read: Correspondence related to The British White Paper of 1922 (June 1922)

~~~~~~~~~~

League of Nations Formalizes Mandate

In July 1922, the League of Nations, predecessor to the UN, formally adopted the British Mandate for Palestine -- a legally binding document that was approved by all 51 members of the League of Nations.

It agreed that:

"the Mandatory [britain] should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917 [balfour Declaration], by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people..."

And it gave recognition to:

"the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country."

The term "reconstituting" gave acknowledgement to the fact that there had been a Jewish nation in Palestine at an earlier time.

Full text of resolution: The Palestine Mandate of The Council of the League of Nations:

~~~~~~~~~~

"Mandate" Explained

The mandatory system of the League of Nations was based on the principle of Allied administration of Mandate territories until such time as they were able to stand alone. That is, it was understood at the beginning that the British would ultimately withdraw, leaving an established Jewish homeland.

Read: LEAGUE OF NATIONS Geneva, April 1945: THE MANDATES SYSTEM

~~~~~~~~~~

Area of Mandate Palestine

The original area of Palestine, for which the British Mandate was assigned, included Transjordan (what is today Jordan, on the eastern side of the Jordan River).

Credit: Hebroots

In September 1922, very soon after the League of Nations had adopted the Mandate resolution, Britain assigned TransJordan to Hashemite Arabs from Saudi Arabia. The Jewish part of the Mandate was thus reduced by over 70%.

Jews then had the right to settle anywhere in a 10,000 sq.mi. area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea.

Credit: Fanack

~~~~~~~~~~

Mandate Transfer to UN

With the formal demise of the League of Nations in 1946, the United Nations was established to succeed it. The UN assumed obligations of the League: Territories under Mandate were to have a "trusteeship system" applied -- this was a continuation of the Mandate system of the League.

Article 80 of the UN declared that "nothing in the [uN] Charter shall be construed...to alter in any manner the rights whatsoever of any states or peoples or the terms of existing international instruments." This preserved the Jewish right to settle in Palestine.

Read: UNITED NATIONS CHARTER (Chapters XI, XII and XIII): Chapter XI Declaration Regarding Non-Self Governing Territories

~~~~~~~~~~

Violence in Palestine

From the time of the establishment of the Mandate for Palestine, Arab challenges to it were considerable, and were often expressed violently. This was in spite of the fact at that the same that the Mandate for Palestine was established for the Jewish homeland, Mandates for Syria, Lebanon and Iraq were established, all for Arab populations. Arabs were, and still are, offended by the presence of a Jewish state.

Perhaps most grievous of all was the Hebron massacre of 1929: for three days Arabs went on a murderous rampage in the city, killing 67 Jews and destroying property. In the aftermath, the second holiest city of the Jews was left bereft of Jews for the first time in hundreds of years. (Ultimately the British prevented Jews from living in the city because they said they couldn't protect them.)

More: The Hebron Massacre of 1929 (August 23, 1929)

~~~~~~~~~~

Partition of Palestine

In 1947, the British, who no longer wished to contend with the situation, declared intention to pull out by mid-1948, and turned the Mandate back to the United Nations. A UN Commission considered the matter and recommended a partition of Palestine into one state for the Jews and one for the Arabs, with Jerusalem to be internationalized at first.

Credit: Wikipedia

This recommendation was placed before the General Assembly as Resolution 181, which was adopted on November 29, 1947 by a vote of 33 to 12, with 10 abstentions. The Arab nations voted as a bloc against.

It is imperative to note that General Assembly Resolutions carry no weight in international law. This resolution was only a recommendation -- it was not binding and it did not supersede the Mandate for Palestine in international law.

The text of the resolution: United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181 November 29, 1947

Legally, this plan would have had binding force only as an agreement between the two parties, i.e., the Jews of Palestine and the Arabs of Palestine.

However, while the Jewish population of Palestinian accepted the proposal, the Arab population did not: they rejected the entire resolution. Thus the partition plan was aborted.

See more here: UN Resolution 181 – The Partition Plan November 29, 1947

There is no way for Arabs today to re-instate this resolution or to claim that Jews have a right to only what was defined as a Jewish state by this aborted resolution.

~~~~~~~~~~

Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel

On May 14, 1948 (Hebrew date: 5th of Iyar 5708), the Jewish People's Council gathered at the Tel Aviv Museum, and approved a proclamation, declaring the establishment of the State of Israel.

It asserted the natural right of the Jewish people to be like all other peoples, exercising self-determination in its sovereign state and proclaimed the establishment of a Jewish state named "the State of Israel."

See text: The Declaration Of The Establishment Of The State Of Israel (May 14, 1948)

It is important to note that Israel's legal legitimacy did not derive from the aborted partition plan -- even though the state was founded on that portion of Palestine that Resolution 181 had allocated for a Jewish state.

It was established according to international norms: based on a declaration of independence by its people and on the establishment of an orderly government within territory under its stable control.

The portion of Palestine on which Israel was not established became unclaimed Mandate land. Nothing in international law had superseded the status of this land as Mandate land.

~~~~~~~~~~

War of Independence

Within a day of the establishment of the State of Israel, it was attacked by the states of the Arab League, with clear, openly stated, intention of destroying the new state.

When the war ended in 1949, Israel controlled more territory than it had when independence was declared. Egypt controlled Gaza, and Jordan controlled Judea and Samaria (the West Bank). Western Jerusalem was in Israel's hands, and eastern Jerusalem in Jordan's hands.

Credit: buildersofzion

Armistice agreements were signed between Israel and the Arab states with which it had been at war. Armistice lines -- temporary ceasefire lines -- were defined by these agreements. They are often referred to as the Green Line.

These armistice demarcation lines did not define a permanent border for Israel. The agreement between Israel and Jordan includes this phrase:

"The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined...in this Agreement are agreed upon by the Parties without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines..."

This is exceedingly important because the PLO/PA claims that this line is Israel's "real" border and the line to which it must withdraw. This is simply not the case.

~~~~~~~~~~

Six Day War

From June 5 to June 10, 1967, Israel fought a defensive war against Arab forces from Egypt, Syria and Jordan.

Details here: The Six-Day War (June 5 - 10, 1967)

When it was over, Israel had control of all of Jerusalem, which was united under Israeli sovereignty; the Golan Heights, to which Israeli civil law was applied; the Sinai, which was surrendered as part of the 1979 peace treaty with Egypt; Gaza, which was surrendered in the 2005 disengagement; and Judea and Samaria.

~~~~~~~~~~

242

In November 1967, the Security Council adopted Resolution 242, which addressed the situation.

This resolution did not require Israel to withdraw to the Green Line. Instead it acknowledged the right of every state in the area "to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force."

Implicit here was the understanding that the Green Line did not represent a secure boundary. Israel suffered from a lack of strategic depth within the Green Line -- at its narrowest only nine miles wide -- which invited attack and made defense in war time difficult. (This is why Israeli statesman Abba Eban referred to the Green Line as the "Auschwitz borders.")

Thus this resolution called for Israel to withdraw from "territories occupied in the recent conflict." "Territories," not "the territories" or "all territories," meaning, withdrawal from some but not all of the area of Judea and Samaria. There is a legal history of long debate over this wording, because of its significance. Not full withdrawal because that would not leave Israel with a secure boundary.

Once again, then, we see that the claim of the PLO/PA that Israel "must" withdraw to the Green Line is not supported by the facts.

Lastly, the resolution called for "a peaceful and accepted settlement in accordance with the provisions and principles in this resolution." That is, it called for negotiations to determine the final border of Israel.

There was no requirement that Israel withdraw prior to negotiations. And those negotiations have never been held. At the time of this resolution, it was assumed that negotiations would be with Jordan. Today the situation has changed.

For a more detailed explanation and text of the resolution: UN Security Council Resolution 242 Adopted: November 22, 1967

~~~~~~~~~~

"Occupation"

There is nothing in Resolution 242 that forbids construction of settlements in Judea and Samaria by Israel. As this issue is a critical one now, we need to look at this a bit closer:

Israel is not an "occupier" in Judea and Samaria.

The word "occupation" is bandied about regularly. The PA/PLO have adopted the idea of Israel as "occupier" as a mantra and much of the world has accepted it. But the facts tell us something else.

• Judea and Samaria were (and still are) unclaimed Mandate land, to which Israel has the strongest claim.
  
• Legally, occupation only occurs when one nation moves into the land of another. But there was no nation legally sovereign in Judea and Samaria before 1967 -- Jordan's presence there was not legal.
  
  See: Definition of Belligerent/Millitary Occupation
  
• There are strong legal precedents for the claim that a war fought defensively permits retention of the land secured in that war.
  
  Wrote Steven Schwiebel, former judge of the International Court of Justice:
  
  "...the Israeli conquest of Arab and Arab-held territory was defensiverather than aggressive conquest.
  
  "...it follows that modifications of the 1949 armistice lines.. are lawful...whether those modifications are, in Secretary Rogers's words, 'insubstantial alterations required for mutual security' or more substantial alterations - such as recognition of Israeli sovereignty over the whole of Jerusalem." (Emphasis added)
  
  Read: Selected Writings of Stephen M. Schwebel, Judge of International Court of Justice
  
• With all of the above, it should not be forgotten that areas over the Green Line, in eastern Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria, represent the very heart of Jewish heritage: From the Temple Mount; to Hevron and the Cave of Machpelah, where the matriarch and patriarchs are buried; to Shilo, where the Tabernacle was brought. How can Jews be "occupiers" in their own ancient land?

~~~~~~~~~~

International Law

People have the impression that "international law" is a firmly defined body of law. In point of fact, while some international law is established in formal documents, others aspects are very fluid. Just as is the case with "occupation," there is a tendency to politicize this term, so that Israel is forever accused of "violating international law." Be most cautious when hearing this.

There are, as well, instances in which "international law" is interpreted to mean one thing for Israel and another for other countries.

One fascinating example has to do with the Fourth Geneva Convention, Article 49(6), which says "the Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies." You may have heard accusations that Israel is in defiance of this Article because of the "settlers."

There are two obvious retorts to this: First, that Israel is not an occupier, and second, that Israel is not deporting or transferring parts of its own civilian population -- the people go of their own volition.

Eugene Kontorovich, however, is currently doing research for a paper and has discovered something else: There are many instances of movement of civilian population into occupied territory. However, while international lawyers claim that Israel must actively oppose civilian migration, refuse to provide services to settlers, etc., in these other instances the reaction is much more tempered. That is, the presumed requirements of "international law" are applied selectively to Israel.

Read: Other Countries’ Settlements

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

RELATED ISSUES Oslo Accords

The Oslo Accords, promoted originally by Shimon Peres, Yossi Beilin and others, was founded on the assumption, which proved to be seriously and dangerously erroneous, that peace might be achieved between Israel and the PLO, considered the official representative of the Palestinian Arab people. On September 13, 1993, the Declaration of Principles was signed between Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat, Chairman of the PLO.

The PLO never properly ratified these Accords, although there was pretense of having done so. Even more significantly, the PLO was committed to changing clauses in its Charter that call for Israel's destruction. Again, there was pretense -- a committee to effect the changes was formed -- but it never happened. The PLO Charter of 1968, which calls for Israel's destruction, is still in place.

It says that Palestine as defined by the Mandate is indivisible and that "armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine."

Read: The PLO Charter

~~~~~~~~~~

On May 4, 1994, the first agreement was signed, spelling out a limited pullback of Israeli forces in Gaza and Jericho, with the PLO moving into those areas. At this time the Palestinian Authority was founded as an interim administrative authority for a period of five years.

On September 28, 1995, the Interim Agreement (called Oslo II) was signed. This called for a more extensive pullback from major Arab population centers, with the PA assuming responsibility. Three areas were defined: (A) in which the PA has total control, (B) in which the PA has civil control and Israel retains responsibility for security, and ©, in which Israel has total control.

All Jewish settlements in Judea and Samaria are in Area ©. There is nothing in this Interim Agreement that prohibits or restricts the establishment or expansion of Jewish communities in that area.

According to Oslo agreements, so called "final status issues" must be resolved via negotiations: Borders of Israel, potential division of Jerusalem, the nature of the Palestinian Arab entity, etc.

Unilateral actions that achieve a change in the basic situation are said to be a violation of the Accords, which require negotiations.

PLEASE NOTE: The Oslo Accords do not specifically call for the formation of a full Palestinian State, although that is the working assumption today. The goal, as stated in the Declaration of Principles is "negotiations...leading to a permanent settlement based on Security Council resolutions 242..." (From 1967, discussed above.) These were supposed to be the negotiations that would finally determine Israel's border to the east. Until his death, PM Yitzhak Rabin spoke of an autonomy for the Palestinian Arabs that was short of full statehood. With these negotiations was to come peace.

Read: Declaration of Principles

Read: Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip (Oslo II) Washington, D.C. (September 28, 1995)

~~~~~~~~~~

Taqiyya

Put simply, this is a Muslim propensity for falsehoods or deception in certain circumstances. This behavior is not only approved but sometimes mandated by Sharia (Islamic) law if it benefits Islam or protects Muslims.

See: Understanding Taqiyya ― Islamic Principle of Lying for the Sake of Allah

The fact that Palestinian Arabs practice taqiyya -- which Islamic scholar Raymond Ibrihim says is mainstream in Islam, and...very prevalent in Islamic politics -- makes it more difficult for Israel to make its case.

Palestinian Arabs, for example, claim that they are the indigenous population in Palestine, descended from the Canaanites or other ancient peoples, while the Jews have no history in the land.

The reality is that those who today call themselves "Palestinians," until a few decades ago identified simply as part of the Arab nation. In fact, before the founding of the modern state of Israel, it was the Jews who were referred to as Palestinians, not the Arabs.

Similarly, Palestinian Arabs say that the Jews are on "their" land and must give it back.

The reality is that there has never been a Palestinian state, on this land or anywhere. There is no case to be made for calling it "their" land.

As well, the Palestinian Arabs say they want a "two-state solution" and will live in peace next to Israel, if Israel will only return to it's Green Line "borders."

The reality is that the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization) was founded in 1964, before Israel had secured Judea, Samaria and Gaza. What the PLO wanted to "liberate" was Israel inside the Green Line.

Nobody sane here is taking you seriously so I don't know why you're even bothering.

The San Remo Conference was an international meeting held following the conclusion of World War I that determined the precise boundaries for territories captured by the Allies.

The conference, attended by Great Britain, France, Italy, and Japan- with the United States as a neutral observer, was held in San Remo, Italy, in April 1920. The conference was a continuation of a previous meeting between these Allied powers that had been held in London in February 1920, where it was decided, among other things, to putPalestine under British Mandatory rule. At San Remo, the Allies confirmed the pledge contained in the Balfour Declaration concerning the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine.

The British delegation to San Remo was headed by Prime Minister David Lloyd George and Lord Curzon, who had replaced Lord Balfour as foreign minister in 1919. Balfour, however, was also present at the conference as a consultant for final settlement issues. At both meetings the French expressed many reservations about the inclusion of the Balfour Declaration in the peace treaty, and it was only after the exertion of British pressure that they were gradually persuaded to agree to it.

The Conference was also attended by Chaim Weizmann, Nahum Sokolow, and Herbert Samuel, who presented a memorandum to the British delegation on the final settlement in the Eastern Mediterranean region. The article concerning Palestine was debated on April 24 and the next day it was finally resolved to incorporate the Balfour Declaration in Britain's mandate in Palestine. Thus Britain was made responsible "for putting into effect the declaration made on the 8^th [sic.] November 1917 by the British Government and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people; it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

The resolution at San Remo was celebrated by mass rallies throughout the Jewish world.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/san_remo.html

[OriZ 3,157]

Some more quick history lesson:

Arab immigration to the region:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0ARecp7pvo#t=91

And here is some more ridiculous pallywood, using no other than the movie final destination for gruesome pictures of dead Palestinians...LOL

To be continued tomorrow...

Edited August 18, 2014 by OriZ

[Jacque67 7,328]

Everyone needs a jewish grandma in their life.

http://www.google.co.jp/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CBgQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Frawknrobyn.blogspot.com%2F2011%2F02%2Fcelebrating-jewish-grandma.html&ei=1MzxU8z1FNPo8AX6qICYCg&usg=AFQjCNFGasHesB1pCbAHpp0NwhjB5jej3w&sig2=qP_Y5k6wOf8GRyMmFbNr1w

Some more quick history lesson:

Arab immigration to the region:

And here is some more ridiculous pallywood, using no other than the movie final destination for gruesome pictures of dead Palestinians...LOL

To be continued tomorrow...

Can't wait!!

[OriZ 3,157]

Everyone needs a jewish grandma in their life.

http://www.google.co.jp/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CBgQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Frawknrobyn.blogspot.com%2F2011%2F02%2Fcelebrating-jewish-grandma.html&ei=1MzxU8z1FNPo8AX6qICYCg&usg=AFQjCNFGasHesB1pCbAHpp0NwhjB5jej3w&sig2=qP_Y5k6wOf8GRyMmFbNr1w

Can't wait!!

And chocolate! One needs chocolate bad!

[Expat1 971]

Some more quick history lesson:

Arab immigration to the region:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0ARecp7pvo#t=91

And here is some more ridiculous pallywood, using no other than the movie final destination for gruesome pictures of dead Palestinians...LOL

To be continued tomorrow...

You leave out the most important parts: But we know that you lie. Wait, you make tiny errors.

Here is what I say: Before a Jewish state was founded Israeli terrorists groups massacred over 2 dozen villages and drove hundreds of thousands of people out of their homes.

In an interview with Henry Siegman (executive director of the American Jewish Congress for 16 years, ordained orthodox rabbi, the head of the Synagogue Council of America, and a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations) a couple of weeks ago this is what he said:

Israel had, pre-state—in its pre-state stage, several terrorist groups that did exactly what Hamas does today. I don’t mean they sent rockets, but they killed innocent people. And they did that in an even more targeted way than these rockets do. Benny Morris published a book that is considered the Bible on that particular period … in the book Righteous Victims, in which he said—I recall, when I read it, I was shocked—in which he—particularly in his most recently updated book, which was based on some new information that the Israel’s Defense—the IDF finally had to open up and publish, that Israeli generals received direct instructions from Ben-Gurion during the War of Independence to kill civilians, or line them up against the wall and shoot them, in order to help to encourage the exodus, that in fact resulted, of 700,000 Palestinians, who were driven out of their—left their homes, and their towns and villages were destroyed. This was terror, even within not just the terrorist groups, the pre-state terrorists, but this is within the military, the Israeli military, that fought the War of Independence. And in this recent book, that has received so much public attention by …

Ari Shavit. He describes several such incidents, too. And incidentally, one of the people who—according to Benny Morris, one of the people who received these orders—and they were oral orders, but he, in his book, describes why he believes that these orders were given, were given to none other than Rabin, who was not a general then, but he—and that he executed these orders.

***

He executed civilians. And the rationale given for this when Shavit, some years ago, had an interview with Benny Morris and said to him, “My God, you are saying that there was deliberate ethnic cleansing here?” And Morris said, “Yes, there was.” And he says, “And you justify it?” And he said, “Yes, because otherwise there would not have been a state.” And Shavit did not follow up.

Once these terrorist groups forced the people out of their towns and homes the "Absentees' Property Laws" were passed that allowed the people who moved into those homes and onto that land to simply take it because the owners were "absent".

The Absentees’ Property Law, 5710- 1950

This law replaced the Emergency Regulations (Absentees’ Property) Law, 5709-1948. According to Jiryis (p. 84), the definition of "absentee" in the law was framed in such a way as to ensure that it applied to every Palestinian or resident in Palestine who had left his usual place of residence in Palestine for any place inside or outside the country after the adoption of the partition of Palestine resolution by the UN. Article 1(b) states that "absentee" means:

According to COHRE and BADIL (p. 41), the provisions in the law made sure that the term 'person' did not apply to Jews. The law also applied to Arabs who had become citizens of the State of Israel but were not in their usual place of residence as defined by the law. In this case, they were referred to as 'present absentees' and many lost their lands.

"absentee" means -

(1) a person who, at any time during the period between the 16th Kislev, 5708 (29th November, 1947) and the day on which a declaration is published, under section 9(d) of the Law and Administration Ordinance, 5708-1948(1), that the state of emergency declared by the Provisional Council of State on the 10th Iyar, 5708 (19th May, 1948)

(2) has ceased to exist, was a legal owner of any property situated in the area of Israel or enjoyed or held it, whether by himself or through another, and who, at any time during the said period -

(i) was a national or citizen of the Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, SaudiArabia, Trans-Jordan, Iraq or the Yemen, or (ii) was in one of these countries or in any part of Palestine outside the area of Israel, or (iii) was a Palestinian citizen and left his ordinary place of residence in Palestine (a) for a place outside Palestine before the 27th Av, 5708 (1st September, 1948); or (b) for a place in Palestine held at the time by forces which sought to prevent the establishment of the State of Israel or which fought against it after its establishment;

(2) a body of persons which, at any time during the period specified in paragraph (1), was a legal owner of any property situated in the area of Israel or enjoyed or held such property, whether by itself or through another, and all the members, partners, shareholders, directors or managers of which are absentees within the meaning of paragraph (1), or the management of the business of which is otherwise decisively controlled by such absentees, or all the capital of which is in the hands of such absentees;

The Law then appointed a Custodianship Council for Absentees' Property, whose president was to be known as the Custodian of Absentees' Property (Article 2). The law then made these properties the legal holdings of the Custodian. According to Art. 4.(a)(2):

every right an absentee had in any property shall pass automatically to the Custodian at the time of the vesting of the property; and the status of the Custodian shall be the same as was that of the owner of the property.

According to COHRE and BADIL (p. 41), those who were found to occupy property in violation of this law could be expelled, and those who built on such property could have their structures demolished. The law came to apply not only to Palestinians who fled but also to those who were away from their regular places of residence (as described in the previous paragraph).

According to the Israel Government Yearbook, 5719 (1958) (p. 235), the "village properties" of absentee Arabs "which was appropriated by the Custodian of Absentees' Property" included "[the land of] some 350 completely abandoned or semi-abandoned [Arab] villages, the aggregate area of which was about three-quarters of a million dunums .... Among the agricultural properties were 80,000 dunums of abandoned groves... [and] more than 200,000 dunums of plantations were taken over by the custodian. "It was estimated that "the urban properties ... include[d] 25,416 buildings in which there are 57,497 dwellings and 10,727 business and trade premises."

According to COHRE and BADIL (p. 41), "estimates of the total amount of ‘abandoned’ lands to which Israel laid claim vary between 4.2 and 5.8 million dunum (4 200-5 800 km²). Between 1948 and 1953 alone, 350 of the 370 new Jewish settlements were created on lands confiscated under the Absentees’ Property Law."

So based on your own Israeli historians and the text of the laws in front of us all it's pretty clear that they were driven out by terrorists and had their property simply taken from them. Of course this law ONLY applied to non-Jews.

Let's take a look at "Plan D", the Pre-1948 blueprint for the upcoming war (wait that was self-defense too)

Actions against enemy settlements located in our, or near our, defense systems [i.e., Jewish settlement and localities] with the aim of preventing their use as bases for active armed forces. These actions should be divided into the following types: The destruction of villages (by fire, blowing up and mining) - especially of those villages over which we cannot gain [permanent] control. Gaining of control will be accomplished in accordance with the following instructions: The encircling of the village and the search of it. In the event of resistance - the destruction of the resisting forces and the expulsion of the population beyond the boundaries of the State.

Lie about it all you want to. Everything I have said about Israel, Israel's actions, and the formation of Israel is true. These history books written by Jewish writers are not fabricated, the laws passed to confiscate property abandoned by massacre are not fabricated, and "Plan D" (there is more) is not fabricated either.

[Expat1 971]

More cool history:

After these massacres resulted in war in 1948-1949 the UN appointed a mediator named Folke Bernadotte.

Some background:

Folke Bernadotte, Count of Wisborg (Swedish: Greve af Wisborg; 2 January 1895 – 17 September 1948) was a Swedish diplomat and nobleman noted for his negotiation of the release of about 31,000 prisoners from German concentration camps during World War II, including 450 Danish Jews from Theresienstadt released on 14 April 1945. In 1945, he received a German surrender offer from Heinrich Himmler, though the offer was ultimately rejected.

After the war, Bernadotte was unanimously chosen to be the United Nations Security Council mediator in the Arab–Israeli conflict of 1947–1948. He was assassinated in Jerusalem in 1948 by the militant Zionist group Lehi while pursuing his official duties. The decision to assassinate him had been taken by Natan Yellin-Mor, Yisrael Eldad, and Yitzhak Shamir, who later became Prime Minister of Israel.

About Lehi:

Lehi (Hebrew pronunciation: [ˈleχi]; Hebrew: לח"י – לוחמי חרות ישראל‎ Lohamei Herut Israel – Lehi, "Fighters for the Freedom of Israel – Lehi"), commonly referred to in English as the Stern Gang, was a militant Zionist group founded by Avraham ("Yair") Stern in the British Mandate of Palestine. Its avowed aim was to evict the British authorities from Palestine by resort to force, allowing unrestricted immigration of Jews and the formation of a Jewish state, a 'new totalitarian Hebrew republic'. It was initially called the National Military Organization in Israel, upon being founded in August 1940, but was renamed Lehi one month later.

Lehi split from the Irgun militant group in 1940 in order to continue fighting the British during World War II. Lehi initially sought an alliance with Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, offering to fight alongside them against the British in return for the transfer of all Jews from Nazi-occupied Europe to Palestine.On the belief that Nazi Germany was a lesser enemy of the Jews than Britain, Lehi twice attempted to form an alliance with the Nazis.During World War II it declared that it would establish a Jewish state based upon "nationalist and totalitarian principles".

Irgan - wasn't that the same group who massacred that village?

Summary: The United States, the Brits, and the UN turned monsters loose on those people in Palestine. They terrorized those people, drove them out, then passed themselves laws that "entitled" themselves to their property and homes. They are still doing it. America should not continue to support it and not a single one of us has the right to judge when they fight back.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Expat1

[Expat1 971]

Bernadott isn't the last one to learn a lesson from helping Israel though

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28814555

A Dutchman honoured by Israel for hiding a Jewish child during World War Two has handed back his medal after six of his relatives were killed in an Israeli air strike on Gaza.

Henk Zanoli, 91, wrote to the Israeli embassy in The Hague to say he could no longer hold the honour.

He said an Israeli F-16 had destroyed his great-niece's home in Gaza, killing all inside, in the recent offensive.

The Israeli embassy has declined to comment on Mr Zanoli's action.

'An insult'

Mr Zanoli and his mother were awarded the "Righteous Among the Nations" honour by Israel in 2011 for helping to shelter a Jewish child from the Nazis in their family home from 1943-45.

The award is accorded to non-Jews who risked their lives to protect and save Jews during the Holocaust.

However, Mr Zanoli said in a letter published by Israel's Haaretz newspaper that "to hold on to the honour granted to me by the State of Israel under these circumstances, would be an insult... to those in my family, four generations on, who lost no less than six of their relatives in Gaza."

"The great-great grandchildren of my mother have lost their grandmother, three uncles, an aunt and a cousin at the hands of the Israeli military," he wrote, referring to an air strike by the Israeli military on 20 July.

His great-niece is a Dutch diplomat who is married to Palestinian economist Ismail Ziadah, who was born in a refugee camp in central Gaza.

Mr Ziadah's mother, three brothers, a sister-in-law and nine-year-old nephew were all killed after their family home was hit by Israeli aircraft.

I have no doubt that the pilot celebrated, giggled, and high-fived after killing another 9-yr-old. All in the spirit of "encouraging the exodus"!

Edited August 18, 2014 by Expat1