Israel-Gaza conflict: What has Israel achieved in 26 bloody days?

[Boiler 45,743]

Why the discrimination against women?

[OriZ 3,157]

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/s-e-cupp-uses-nazi-analogy-to-show-how-the-media-is-helping-hamas/

[OriZ 3,157]

The annihilation of the state of Israel has begun, said the official Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) envoy to Tehran, Salah al-Zawawi.

“The US and the western countries have created a fake regime in Palestine to get rid of it and have supplied it with the most advanced weapons and are seeking to create an Israel from the Nile to the Euphrates,” Zawawi, whose organization dominates the Palestinian Authority headed by President Mahmoud Abbas, was quoted as saying by the Iranian semi-official news agency Fars on Tuesday.

“Israel’s annihilation has begun and the new generation in Iran will certainly witness our victory over Israel,” he said during a gathering in Tehran in support of Gaza on Tuesday.

The Hamas representative in Iran, Khaled al-Kadoumi, said that the resistance must go on and that he hopes its weapons will become more advanced with the help of the Iranians.

“The only mechanism for liberating Palestine is resistance and we have no option other than supporting the resistance,” he said on Monday, according to Fars.

“We hope to be able to make our missiles more advanced with the help of the knowledgeable Iranians,” he went on at an event in support of Gaza.

Kadoumi said the reason Hamas accepted the 72-hour ceasefire with Israel this week was for humanitarian pruposes.

“One of the reasons for accepting the truce by Hamas was enabling us to reopen ways for transferring the injured Palestinians and achieving our other goals,” he said.

“The places that have been targeted by the Zionist regime were protected areas according to the international law that Israel should not have targeted them,” he went on.

Israel launched Operation Protective Edge on July 8 to stop Hamas’s and other group’s indiscriminate rocket fire on Israeli cities and destroy Hamas’s tunnels that infiltrate into Israeli territory.

Read more: Israel's annihilation has begun, says PLO envoy to Tehran | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/israels-annihilation-has-begun-says-official-plo-envoy-to-tehran/#ixzz3AKNpuFme

Follow us: @timesofisrael on Twitter | timesofisrael on Facebook

[OriZ 3,157]

[Expat1 971]

Well one point is clear. Israel's own actions portray them as "baby-killers", as did ours in Vietnam. TV does the job every time, no need for a group of kids at a college to point it out.

When you do it and get called on it then the label is what it is and when you staple pictures of dead kids to it the label sticks.

Don't lump yourselves in with us as if you are like us. If we killed every man, woman, and child affiliated with everyone who ever burned a flag or shouted 'death to America' the globe would be a wasteland. Scared of a few bottlerockets? Maybe you should take a rest from all of this and come back when you have 45,000 nuclear weapons aimed at you. (See 1985 nuclear arsenal counts).

Your lies have gotten tiresome. Truly. Storytime. This happened 5 weeks before the 1948 war and I must say, history repeats for those who do not learn from it.

Deir Yassin was a Palestinian Arab village of several hundred residents, all Muslim, living in 144 houses.The International Committee of the Red Cross reported that there were 400 residents; Yoav Gelber writes that there were 610, citing the British mandatory authority figures; and Menachem Begin's biographer, Eric Silver, 800 to 1,000. It was situated on a hill west of Jerusalem, 800 meters above sea level, overlooking the main highway entering Jerusalem. The village was relatively prosperous, thanks to the excavation of limestone from the village quarries, which allowed the residents to make a good living from stone-cutting. By most accounts, they lived in peace with their Jewish neighbors in nearby villages, particularly those in Givat Shaul, an Orthodox community just across the valley, some of whom reportedly tried to help the Deir Yassin villagers during the Irgun-Lehi invasion.

On January 20, 1948, the villagers met leaders of the Givat Shaul community to form a peace pact. The Deir Yassin villagers agreed to inform Givat Shaul should Palestinian militiamen appear in the village, by hanging out certain types of laundry during the day—two white pieces with a black piece in the middle—and at night signaling three dots with a flashlight and placing three lanterns in a certain place. In return, patrols from Givat Shaul guaranteed safe passage to Deir Yassin residents, in vehicles or on foot, passing through their neighborhood on the way to Jerusalem. Yoma Ben-Sasson, Haganah commander in Givat Shaul, said after the village had been captured that, "there was not even one incident between Deir Yassin and the Jews."

on April 9, 1948, around 120 fighters from the Irgun Zevai Leumi and Lohamei Herut Israel Zionist paramilitary groups attacked Deir Yassin. Around 107 villagers were killed during and after the battle for the village, including women and children—some were shot, while others died when hand grenades were thrown into their homes. Several villagers were taken prisoner and may have been killed after being paraded through the streets of West Jerusalem, though accounts vary.Four of the attackers died, with around 35 injured. The killings were condemned by the leadership of the Haganah—the Jewish community's main paramilitary force—and by the area's two chief rabbis. The Jewish Agency for Israel sent Jordan's King Abdullah a letter of apology, which he rebuffed.

There were (16) other massacres at 16 other locations and none of these locations were "owned" by Israel either.

5 weeks later, Arab armies attacked the "poor, victimized jews" in what is known as the 1948 Israeli-Arab war.

Bleh. Afterwards:

Future Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, head of one of the Jewish groups, described this as “splendid,” and stated: “As in Deir Yassin, so everywhere, we will attack and smite the enemy. God, God, Thou has chosen us for conquest.” Zionist forces committed 33 massacres altogether.

By the end of the war, Israel had conquered 78 percent of Palestine; three-quarters of a million Palestinians had been made refugees; over 500 towns and villages had been obliterated; and a new map was drawn up, in which every city, river and hillock received a new, Hebrew name, as all vestiges of the Palestinian culture were to be erased. For decades Israel denied the existence of this population, former Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir once saying: “There is no such thing as a Palestinian.”

Conclusion: Israel was founded on the roots of terrorism and if God chose Israel to conquer then Israel shouldn't need our military aid or our tax dollars to do it. Our tax dollars should not be spent supporting terrorism anywhere. Either way Israel is in no position to declare "terrorism" as justification for killing more women and children ESPECIALLY in their own homes.

Post some more. Wifey's out of the country and I got all weekend to play "storytime with dimwits".

[Expat1 971]

Israel: Founded on the roots of terrorism. Who are they now to suddenly declare themselves as victims and who are we to fund and support terrorism on either side anymore?

At the beginning of the Civil war, Jewish militias organized several bombing attacks against civilians and military Arab targets. On 12 December 1947, the Irgun placed a car bomb opposite the Damascus Gate, the main entrance to the Old City of Jerusalem, killing 20 people. On 4 January 1948, the Lehi detonated a lorry bomb against the headquarters of the paramilitary al-Najjada located in Jaffa's Town Hall, killing 15 Arabs and injuring 80. During the night between 5 and 6 January, in Jerusalem, the Haganah bombed the Semiramis Hotel that had been reported to hide Arab militiamen, killing 24 people. The next day, Irgun members in a stolen police van rolled a barrel bomb into a large group of civilians who were waiting for a bus by the Jaffa Gate, killing around 16. Another Irgun bomb went off in the Ramla market on 18 February, killing 7 residents and injuring 45. On 28 February, the Palmach organised a bombing attack against a garage in Haifa, killing 30 people.

[Expat1 971]

Being sick of the nonsense on this thread more really cool stuff about poor, victimized Israel and those eeeeeeevil terrorist ay-rabbs

Despite their rhetoric, Arab armies committed few atrocities and no large-scale massacre of prisoners took place when circumstances might have allowed them to happen, as when they took the Old City of Jerusalem or the villages of Atarot, Neve Yaakov, Nitzanim, Gezer and Mishmar Hayarden. On the contrary, on 28 May, when the inhabitants and fighters of the Old City surrendered, in fear for their lives, the Transjordanian Arab Legion protected them from the mob and even wounded or shot dead other Arabs. (my comment here - Israel sure as hell missed a chance to look better on paper if these people shot their bulldozer drivers before they run over unarmed American girls)

Interesting that massacres in villages were purportedly done in order to make people in OTHER villages flee. Sounds, well, like something good old fashioned terrorists would do. ISIS and Israel. Not a whit of difference.

With regard to massacres perpetrated by the IDF at the end of the war and particularly during Operation Hiram, where around 10 massacres occurred, Morris and Yoav Gelber consider that lack of discipline cannot explain the events. Gelber points out the "hard feelings [of the soldiers] towards the Palestinians" and the fact that the Palestinians had not fled like in former operations Benny Morris thinks that they were related to a "general vengefulness and a desire by local commanders to precipitate a civilian exodus".

Interesting that just like today, on this very board in fact, the explanation was and still is "well if they had the chance to do it they would have done it too"

To explain the difference in the number of killings and massacres, Morris speculates that "[t]his was probably due to the circumstance that the victorious Israelis captured some four hundred Arab villages and towns during April–November 1948, whereas the Palestinian Arabs and the Arab Liberation Army failed to take any settlements and the Arab armies that invaded in mid-May overran fewer than a dozen Jewish settlements".

Edited August 15, 2014 by Expat1

[Ryan H 3,818]

One post that was off topic and contributing nothing to the discussion removed.

[Expat1 971]

We'll do our best to keep it factual and stay between the lanes in here

[OriZ 3,157]

lol lets repeat things that were already discussed here in detail at the end of 2012...you are a waste of my time. I'm not going to waste my time on things I've already responded to in length before but if anyone wants to read it and actually see the context in which everything happened and not your one-sided twisted BS they can sure find it around Nov-Dec 2012 in many posts.

This is all I'll post for now about it:

The Deir Yassin massacre took place on April 9, 1948, when around 120 fighters from the Irgun Zevai Leumi and Lohamei Herut Israel Zionist paramilitary groups attacked Deir Yassin near Jerusalem, a Palestinian Arab village of roughly 600 people. The assault occurred as Jewish militia sought to relieve the blockade of Jerusalemby Palestinian forces during the civil war that preceded the end of British rule in Palestine.

The deaths became a pivotal event in the Arab–Israeli conflict for their demographic and military consequences. The narrative was embellished and used by various parties to attack each other—by the Palestinians against Israel; by the Haganah to play down their own role in the affair; and by the Israeli Left to accuse the Irgun and Lehi of violating the Jewish principle of purity of arms, thus blackening Israel's name around the world.^[5] News of the killings sparked terror within the Palestinian community, encouraging them to flee from their towns and villages in the face of Jewish troop advances, and it strengthened the resolve of Arab governments to intervene, which they did five weeks later.Around 107 villagers were killed during and after the battle for the village, including women and children—some were shot, while others died when hand grenades were thrown into their homes. Several villagers were taken prisoner and may have been killed after being paraded through the streets of West Jerusalem, though accounts vary. Four of the attackers died, with around 35 injured. The killings were condemned by the leadership of the Haganah—the Jewish community's main paramilitary force—and by the area's two chief rabbis. The Jewish Agency for Israel sent Jordan's King Abdullah a letter of apology, which he rebuffed.

The attack on Deir Yassin took place after the United Nations proposed on November 29, 1947 (UN Resolution 181) that Palestine be divided into an Arab state and a Jewish one. Jerusalem was to belong to neither state, but was to be administered separately; Deir Yassin lay within the boundaries of the proposed plan for Jerusalem. The Arabs rejected the proposal, and civil war broke out. British rule in Palestine ended on May 14, 1948; Israel declared its independence that day, and several Arab armies invaded at midnight on May 15, triggering the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.

In the months leading up to the end of British rule, in a phase of the civil war known as "The Battle of [the] Roads," the Arab League-sponsored Arab Liberation Army (ALA)—composed of Palestinians and other Arabs—attacked Jewish traffic on major roads in an effort to isolate the Jewish communities from each other. The ALA managed to seize several strategic vantage points along the highway between Jerusalem and Tel Aviv—Jerusalem's sole supply route and link to the western side of the city where 16 percent of all Jews in Palestine lived—and began firing on convoys traveling to the city. By March 1948, the road was cut off and Jerusalem was under siege. In response, the Haganah launched Operation Nachshon to break the siege. On April 6, in an effort to secure strategic positions, the Haganah and its strike force, the Palmach, attacked al-Qastal, a village two kilometers north of Deir Yassin overlooking the Jerusalem-Tel Aviv highway.

The view that the relationship between Deir Yassin and its neighbors was invariably peaceful is disputed by Yehuda Lapidot (underground name, "Nimrod"), the Irgun's second-in-command of the operation to take the village. He writes that there had been occasional skirmishes between Deir Yassin and Givat Shaul residents, and that on April 3, shots had been fired from Deir Yassin toward the Jewish villages of Bet Hakerem and Yefe Nof. He writes that the village was defended by 100 armed men, that ditches had been dug around it, that Iraqi and Palestinian guerrillas were stationed there, and that there was a guard force stationed by the village entrance. Benny Morris writes that it is possible some militiamen were stationed in the village, but the evidence is far from definitive, in his view. In Gelber's view, it is unlikely that the peace pact between Deir Yassin and Givat Shaul continued to hold in April, given the intensity of hostilities between the Arab and Jewish communities elsewhere. He writes that shots had been exchanged on April 2 between Deir Yassin and several Jewish communities. Over the next few days, the Jewish community at Motza and Jewish traffic on the road to Tel Aviv came under fire from the village. On April 8, Deir Yassin youth took part in the defence of the Arab village of al-Qastal, which the Jews had invaded days earlier: the names of several Deir Yassin residents appeared on a list of wounded compiled by the British Palestine police.

and I also have something else better than you. I have first hand stories from my own blood, my grandmother, who came with her family from Russia in the late 20's. In Russia they were wealthy, they had everything, but the Russians told them they needed to leave, without taking anything. So they went to Palestine, and lived in a tent, and what little bit they had, got stolen by the Arabs at times. Her mom died in her 40's when she wasn't even able to recognize her own daughter anymore due to the trauma she had suffered in life. During the civil war, the Arabs turned against the Jews, even the ones you thought were your friends, even the kids she used to play with as a kid, would now throw rocks at her every time she left the house.

And here's some more about Deir Yassin

The Jewish forces that entered Deir Yassin belonged in the main to two extremist, underground, paramilitary groups, the Irgun (Etzel) (National Military Organization) and the Lehi (Fighters for the Freedom of Israel), also known as the Stern Gang, both aligned with the right-wing revisionist Zionist movement. Formed in 1931, Irgun was a militant group that broke away from the mainstream Jewish militia, the Haganah. During the 1936–39 Arab revolt in Palestine, in which Palestinian Arabs rose up against the British mandate authorities in protest at mass Jewish immigration into the country, Irgun's tactics had included bus and marketplace bombings, condemned by both the British and the Jewish Agency. Lehi, an Irgun splinter group, was formed in 1940 following Irgun's decision to declare a truce with the British during World War II. Lehi subsequently carried out a series of assassinations designed to force the British out of Palestine. In April 1948, it was estimated that the Irgun had 300 fighters in Jerusalem, and Lehi around 100.

The Palmach, the strike force of the Haganah—whose leadership was aligned with the political Left (see Mapai)—also took part, though to a lesser extent. Morris writes that two Palmach squads evacuated the wounded, and helped invade and secure some of the villagers' houses. When the Irgun and Lehi fighters ran low on ammunition, they obtained thousands of rounds from the Haganah. Haganah squads also provided covering fire, and fired on villagers fleeing south towards Ayn Karim.

The attack on the village was important for two reasons, according to Yehuda Lapidot of the Irgun. In the view of Irgun and Lehi, it posed a threat to Jewish neighborhoods and the main road to the coastal plain, and it was the first time Jewish forces had gone on the offensive, as opposed to responding to attacks. An assault on the village would show the Arabs the Jews intended to fight for Jerusalem

Like I said the rest will have to be searched cause I have no time for BS.

[Josh W 3]

In 1948 nearly one million Jews lived in Arab lands. But In barely twenty years, they have become forgotten fugitives, expelled from their native lands, forgotten by history and where the victims themselves have hidden their fate under a cloak of silence. A people whom legend have always associated with "wandering" many of these Jews from Arab lands had lived there for thousands of years and accepted their fate, through good times and bad times. But 1948, the beginning of their exodus, also saw the birth of the State of Israel. And, while the Arab armies were preparing to invade the young refugee-country, the survivors of the Holocaust were piling up in rickety boats. Meanwhile a few hundred thousand Arabs from Palestine were getting ready to flee their homes, convinced that they would return as winners and conquerors. Soon - by a terrible twist of fate they, as well, began to fill up refugee camps in the neighboring arab counties and become stuck there for generations. The Jews, however, did not receive refugee status. They had just rediscovered the land of their birthright. And if they came from Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iraq or from Yemen, if they had lost everything, even their relatives and their cemeteries, they were ready to rebuild their lives in the West and for many - in Israel - and try to forget their past. Without ever asking for compensation or the right of return, or even wishing that their story be told.

[OriZ 3,157]

On November 29, 1947, a plan was established by the end of the partition of the British Mandate of Israel and the establishment of two independent states in the territory - a Jewish state and an Arab state. The Arabs rejected the offer, which led to unrest throughout the country and the outbreak of the War of Independence. Irregular Arab forces began attacking the Jewish settlement. They were joined by the Arab Liberation Army is composed of volunteers from Arab countries who came to fight alongside Palestine's Arabs.

Arab forces were stationed at strategic points along the road from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv and began shooting at convoys traveling to Jerusalem. The Road being a single artery of supplies to the city, Jerusalem came to be under siege. In response operation Nachshon by the Haganah began in order to open the road to Jerusalem and break the siege. To secure the hinge a decision was made to take over the nearby Arab villages on the Jerusalem-Tel Aviv road and expell the inhabitants. Deir Yassin was an Arab village about two miles from the Castel and one kilometer from the Givat Shaul neighborhood. The village stands at an altitude of 800 meters above sea level on a hill commanding the road from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv.

According to a study conducted at Bir Zeit University, Deir Yassin people participated in violent acts against Jewish targets and the battle for Kastel. At the entrances to the village trenches were excavated and more than 100 men were trained and equipped with rifles and machine guns.

Historian Yoav Gelber argues that there is need to doubt that the agreement between the residents of Deir Yassin and residents of Givat Shaul continued to be in force in April, in the light of changing circumstances in January, given the intensity of the hostility that had developed at that time between Arabs and Jews in other places. He said that on April 2 there was a prolonged shootout between the Jewish neighborhoods and people of the village, and during the days that followed, shots were fired at the direction of the neighborhoods and at the outlet village road from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv. at the same time the battle for Castel took place, and some residents of Deir Yassin took part and fought alongside Arab forces. However, Gelber refutes claims that foreign fighters were in the village.

Context is key. Between 1851 and 1948 almost 600 Jews in Palestine were killed and thousands injured in attacks by the Arabs.

Some believe that the first racially motivated murder of a Jew in Palestine was that of Avraham Shlomo Zalman in 1851. The first events of terrorism against Jews occurred in 1920 (6 murdered Jews in Jerusalem and the Galilee) and in 1921 (Jaffa riots), during which 43 Jews were murdered by Arabs in Jaffa area.

Isolated settlements were also attacked, requiring the British to cancel the Balfour Declaration and to stop Jewish immigration and settlement. Among the major terrorist acts were invasion of Jewish neighborhoods and settlements and murdering their inhabitants, ambushes and shooting on vehicles on the roads and burning plantations and fields of Jews.

Under the leadership of the Supreme Muslim Council head and the Mufti of Jerusalem Amin al-Husseini Arab organizations in Israel united, demanding independence (at the time sought to connect to Syria).

In 1929 renewed disturbances (riots) on a larger scale throughout the country, when 113 Jews were killed and 339 were injured, most of them in Hebron massacre when the Jewish community was destroyed.

Following the Fifth Aliyah, the Great Arab Revolt broke out in Israel. Events during this period were led by the Arab Higher Committee led by Amin al-Husseini and lasted from 1936 to 1939, during the years 1937-39 the uprising was equipped and funded by Nazi Germany.

First, the Arabs started a general strike and a series of violent attacks against the Jewish community and against British rule. This time the main demand was the removal of the British from the country. On April 15, 1936 the first day events, attacked Jews of Jaffa, nine of them were killed, 60 wounded, and the rest were forced to flee to Tel Aviv. over three years of revolt about 400 Jews were killed, thousands injured and thousands of Jewish refugees from across the country flocked to Tel Aviv. Attacked were private homes, schools, orphanages, Jews were shot while they worked, traveled, there were hundreds of attacks on trains and buses and 17,000 dunams of jewish crops were burned .

In the 40s Arab organizations collaborated with the Nazis against the British and against the Jewish community, in planning the extermination of the Jews of Israel once invaded by Nazi Germany, according to the plan was to arrive from Egypt (two hundred days of anxiety). Nazis in collaboration Amin al-Husseini failed an operation performed for dropping special forces who tried to poison the wells of the Jews of Tel Aviv. Mufti Amin al-Husseini who found refuge with Hitler, commanded the Muslim SS units in the Balkans. Arab leaders strongly opposed the partition plan proposed by the United Nations of Israel in 1947, and the same night it was approved in the General Assembly in the evening on November 29, the Arabs opened in guerrilla warfare and terrorist attacks against the Jewish community, which started the war of independence in fact.

The whole idea behind the Palestinian narrative is to vilify Israelis, Zionists and even Jews, hide and ignore anything the Arabs did to the Jews and highlight and twist anything the Jews did...but simple minds and simple people don't understand complex situations, to them it's all black and white, no shades of grey.

[OriZ 3,157]

It is also important to remember that while some of the attacks by Jews, which were normally a retaliation, were infact aimed at civilians, most of them were not. Moreover, in most of them(although not all of them) a warning was given, much in the same way that the IRA gave warnings a couple of decades ago, but were unfortunately ignored in most cases, such as the King David Hotel bombing. And like I said, the rest of the info can be found in older pages...but those points were important for me to make again, due to some really ignorant claims.

[Expat1 971]

Listen to you go on and on and on and on puking your defense of terrorists and terrorist acts. You're starting to sound shrill. What's up? More storytime.

The King David Hotel bombing was an attack carried out on Monday July 22, 1946 by the militant right-wing Zionist underground organization, the Irgun, on the British administrative headquarters for Palestine, which was housed in the southern wing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem.91 people of various nationalities were killed and 46 were injured.

Exact same group who attacked that unarmed village. Not only conducting terrorist acts on unarmed villages BUT also conducting terrorist acts on the British. Civilians. Not on a military base. Not a military target. A hotel.

Again: Israel the nation was built on terrorism. Supporting Israel is supporting terrorists.

Palestine was colonized THEN Israel "declared independence" and started expanding by violently driving the people around them out.

THAT is why their neighbors hated and attacked them. They started by shooting and bombing civilians and still do it today. Keep going. There are a couple dozen more massacres of civilians to talk about and like I said, I have all weekend.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Expat1

[Expat1 971]

Context is key. Between 1851 and 1948 almost 600 Jews in Palestine were killed and thousands injured in attacks by the Arabs.

The whole idea behind the Palestinian narrative is to vilify Israelis, Zionists and even Jews, hide and ignore anything the Arabs did to the Jews and highlight and twist anything the Jews did...but simple minds and simple people don't understand complex situations, to them it's all black and white, no shades of grey.

I wasn't actually using a "Palestinian narrative". No sir. Though I can understand and even empathize with the people in Gaza that doesn't mean I believe killing innocent people anywhere is right. You have a problem with the sources of those stories better take a trip home and straighten it out over there.

His words, not mine. Have a pleasant day.

Benny Morris (Hebrew: בני מוריס; born 8 December 1948) is an Israeli historian. He is a professor of Judaism in the Middle East Studies department of Ben-Gurion University of the Negev in the city of Beersheba, Israel. He is a key member of the group of Israeli historians known as the "New Historians," a term Morris coined to describe himself and historians Avi Shlaim and Ilan Pappé.

Morris's work on the Arab-Israeli conflict and especially the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has won praise and criticism from both sides of the political divide. He is accused by some academics in Israel of only using Israeli and never Arab sources, creating an "unbalanced picture". Regarding himself as a Zionist, he writes, "I embarked upon the research not out of ideological commitment or political interest. I simply wanted to know what happened."

Edited August 15, 2014 by Expat1