Things to remember to tell your SO when they arrive

[Bosco 1]

I don't agree. I don't think it is on 'just about every thread'. I think it's only on the threads that mean people decide to hijack for their own enjoyment. For the most part, everyone here gets along and has off VJ friendships via email, messenger and phone. Several of us have met in person.

Back to things to remember to tell you SO when they arrive.....

Jackie

Thank you for saying this. I think its so true and not apparent on the surface esp. to new members. Those that want to make it about a secret club are just making it about them and perpetuating the myth of MEAN MENA girls. It's not funny and it harms the members who are just looking for advice and a friendly conversation.

They perpetuate it because they have chosen not to have friendship for whatever reason (and that is fine) and they seem to feel some satisfaction in steering others the way they have gone. New members are an easy target because they are still sizing things up - and by the same few saying it is a clique, the popular girls, or whatever other labels have been thrown around, they not only exclude us from getting a chance to know some new women by drawing these lines, but do exactly what you say as well.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I've noticed that people who always talk about cliques and crowds and cabals are the ones who perceive themselves as not being a part of them. It reminds me of junior high. The people who complained about the cliques the most were the ones who had their own cliques that they formed for the purpose of complaining about the other cliques. To carry on the Mean Girls analogy...if you've seen it, surely you must have seen how mean Janice (the artist friend) was.

I hope people can start seeing past these juvenile labels and recognize that we really are friends here.

I notice that those who are part of the clique, crowd and cabal have a serious interest in denying that there is one. If you're not part of it, you cannot help but notice that there is something out of wack between the "popular girls" and those who are not chatting, IMing, phoning and meeting in person. The different realities are going to be denied by those who don't see beyond their friendships. They cannot be denied by those who can see beyond them.

I don't agree. I don't think it is on 'just about every thread'. I think it's only on the threads that mean people decide to hijack for their own enjoyment. For the most part, everyone here gets along and has off VJ friendships via email, messenger and phone. Several of us have met in person.

Back to things to remember to tell you SO when they arrive.....

Jackie

Thank you for saying this. I think its so true and not apparent on the surface esp. to new members. Those that want to make it about a secret club are just making it about them and perpetuating the myth of MEAN MENA girls. It's not funny and it harms the members who are just looking for advice and a friendly conversation.

They perpetuate it because they have chosen not to have friendship for whatever reason (and that is fine) and they seem to feel some satisfaction in steering others the way they have gone. New members are an easy target because they are still sizing things up - and by the same few saying it is a clique, the popular girls, or whatever other labels have been thrown around, they not only exclude us from getting a chance to know some new women by drawing these lines, but do exactly what you say as well.

I'm not a new member and I'm waaaaay past high school age, but I, among others, see this from the viewpoint as to how it affects us. When I was a newbie, I was warned about the groupthink and high school mentality. The sad thing is, they were right.There is a consequence on the boards of a few women claiming that they are friends and have all these avenues of maintaining their friendships, which is obvious to those who don't have those tightening bonds.

The fact is, when I brought up the PMs that were circulated telling people not to respond to certain people if they wanted to be friends, and Maggie came out publically to say she was tired of the manipulations, all of you clique people went into denial. But there are a lot of us who know what happens, and we're not newbies.

You used to want to be my friend, Rebecca. As far as I know, I did nothing to make you stop. At least you didn't take your own advice to talk to me privately about what it may have been that made you stop.

Anyway, when you began to talk about how you were chatting with others and I began to notice you mocking me along with people who have made it known that they don't like me, it was clear that they were who you wanted to be friends with, so your choice had been made about who you prefer as friends. Not a problem, but when you make proclamations about how friendship is a choice, I can't help but think, yes, you clearly made a choice. These friendships are used to separate the "ins" from the "outs". No intelligent observer can help but notice this here.

Sorry, but the truth hurts. Back to the inevitable denial.

Edited January 25, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Jenn! 918]

I've noticed that people who always talk about cliques and crowds and cabals are the ones who perceive themselves as not being a part of them. It reminds me of junior high. The people who complained about the cliques the most were the ones who had their own cliques that they formed for the purpose of complaining about the other cliques. To carry on the Mean Girls analogy...if you've seen it, surely you must have seen how mean Janice (the artist friend) was.

I hope people can start seeing past these juvenile labels and recognize that we really are friends here.

I notice that those who are part of the clique, crowd and cabal have a serious interest in denying that there is one. If you're not part of it, you cannot help but notice that there is something out of wack between the "popular girls" and those who are not chatting, IMing, phoning and meeting in person. The different realities are going to be denied by those who don't see beyond their friendships. They cannot be denied by those who can see beyond them.

Don't you think you're being just a *tad* ridiculous? "Popular girls"? Really? And as far as I've seen this absurdity is being brought into nearly every thread with some snide remark about how the "popular girls" are going to come in and ruin the thread. Seems like a strategy to discredit your "opponents" before they even have a chance to share their opinion.

The insinuations that "Susie only thinks that because Janey told her to" are becoming quite tiring. Especially since they're just not true.

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

Don't you think you're being just a *tad* ridiculous? "Popular girls"? Really? And as far as I've seen this absurdity is being brought into nearly every thread with some snide remark about how the "popular girls" are going to come in and ruin the thread. Seems like a strategy to discredit your "opponents" before they even have a chance to share their opinion.

if you really think that, then why did you fall for it?

Edited January 25, 2007 by charlesandnessa

[Together4ever 1]

It's a public forum. Many of us come here daily for whatever various reasons we may have. So what if there is a clique? So what if there's not? It's inevitable, as is being one of those who is not in the clique. Human nature. It's going to happen anywhere people gather regularly.

Now... if no one minds, I'd like to skate back to the original topic.

Another thing that might come in helpful is mentioning to your SO that when dealing with the various government agencies that you both will inevitably have to deal with, there is no bargaining. What they say goes.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Ridiculous? No. Like I said, back to denial. No one has to be dillusional to see how the bonding among a few affects the dynamic of the board.

And there were PMs telling people who not to respond to. Saying there weren't won't make that change. What's done is done. Maybe saying it out loud will make it stop.

The bottom line is, if everyone here was getting along, as Jackie claimed, and some of you have rushed to suppport her claim, there would be no "opponents" to the "popular" girls - if there were no "popular girls".

Edited January 25, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

Sorry, but the truth hurts. Back to the inevitable denial.

sis, some can't see the

because of the trees. so they'll just continue to cut down everything in their path while acting like an angel.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

It's a public forum. Many of us come here daily for whatever various reasons we may have. So what if there is a clique? So what if there's not? It's inevitable, as is being one of those who is not in the clique. Human nature. It's going to happen anywhere people gather regularly.

You know what else is human nature? Challenging that which hinders you. Some will try to divert the challenge. So here we are. Some challenging the barriers that create the dynamics that leave some out to be picked on, and those whom allow manipulations and piling on with their friends coming to their defense.

Sorry, it has been said out loud. People talk abot each other behind their backs and decide who is "worthy" of the clique and who is not. Nothing is being said here that has not been acknowledged already.

[doodlebug 3]

I've given up trying to figure out the dynamics of this portion of VJ. Not everyone has to like everyone.

[Together4ever 1]

So not much hope of maintaining the original subject matter...

It's a public forum. Many of us come here daily for whatever various reasons we may have. So what if there is a clique? So what if there's not? It's inevitable, as is being one of those who is not in the clique. Human nature. It's going to happen anywhere people gather regularly.

You know what else is human nature? Challenging that which hinders you. Some will try to divert the challenge. So here we are. Some challenging the barriers that create the dynamics that leave some out to be picked on, and those whom allow manipulations and piling on with their friends coming to their defense.

Sorry, it has been said out loud. People talk abot each other behind their backs and decide who is "worthy" of the clique and who is not. Nothing is being said here that has not been acknowledged already.

Again, another inevitability of social settings. Not always fun, but nothing will ever change it either. As for me, I am slapping myself for perpetuating this because I personally was enjoying the original subject matter and was finding it useful.

[doodlebug 3]

So not much hope of maintaining the original subject matter...

I'm not too sure that bribing the officials in Egypt does much good. We've been trying for days now and nada.

The thing is though, and this is just my opinion based on my life experiences thus far...which could change with the wind....., our system doesn't seem to need the bribes since it's not muddled with so much raunchy and rampid corruption, you know? For example, we had to bribe the ministry of marriage to get them to stay open until their stated hours in order to marry us. I can't imagine my town hall randomly saying their gonna close the doors an hour early 'cause they feel like it.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Again, another inevitability of social settings. Not always fun, but nothing will ever change it either. As for me, I am slapping myself for perpetuating this because I personally was enjoying the original subject matter and was finding it useful.

And you, Jean, have been a great beneficiary of the bonding. Easy for you to shrug it off.

[Together4ever 1]

Again, another inevitability of social settings. Not always fun, but nothing will ever change it either. As for me, I am slapping myself for perpetuating this because I personally was enjoying the original subject matter and was finding it useful.

And you, Jean, have been a great beneficiary of the bonding. Easy for you to shrug it off.

Perhaps, AS I HAVE LEARNED, taking things personally here just don't pay off. I'm not really sure what you mean, but if you feel the need to pursue this on a personal leve, please take it to pm. I'm not playing this game on this forum anymore.

[Bosco 1]

I've noticed that people who always talk about cliques and crowds and cabals are the ones who perceive themselves as not being a part of them. It reminds me of junior high. The people who complained about the cliques the most were the ones who had their own cliques that they formed for the purpose of complaining about the other cliques. To carry on the Mean Girls analogy...if you've seen it, surely you must have seen how mean Janice (the artist friend) was.

I hope people can start seeing past these juvenile labels and recognize that we really are friends here.

I notice that those who are part of the clique, crowd and cabal have a serious interest in denying that there is one. If you're not part of it, you cannot help but notice that there is something out of wack between the "popular girls" and those who are not chatting, IMing, phoning and meeting in person. The different realities are going to be denied by those who don't see beyond their friendships. They cannot be denied by those who can see beyond them.

I don't agree. I don't think it is on 'just about every thread'. I think it's only on the threads that mean people decide to hijack for their own enjoyment. For the most part, everyone here gets along and has off VJ friendships via email, messenger and phone. Several of us have met in person.

Back to things to remember to tell you SO when they arrive.....

Jackie

Thank you for saying this. I think its so true and not apparent on the surface esp. to new members. Those that want to make it about a secret club are just making it about them and perpetuating the myth of MEAN MENA girls. It's not funny and it harms the members who are just looking for advice and a friendly conversation.

They perpetuate it because they have chosen not to have friendship for whatever reason (and that is fine) and they seem to feel some satisfaction in steering others the way they have gone. New members are an easy target because they are still sizing things up - and by the same few saying it is a clique, the popular girls, or whatever other labels have been thrown around, they not only exclude us from getting a chance to know some new women by drawing these lines, but do exactly what you say as well.

I'm not a new member and I'm waaaaay past high school age, but I, among others, see this from the viewpoint as to how it affects us. When I was a newbie, I was warned about the groupthink and high school mentality. The sad thing is, they were right.There is a consequence on the boards of a few women claiming that they are friends and have all these avenues of maintaining their friendships, which is obvious to those who don't have those tightening bonds.

The fact is, when I brought up the PMs that were circulated telling people not to respond to certain people if they wanted to be friends, and Maggie came out publically to say she was tired of the manipulations, all of you clique people went into denial. But there are a lot of us who know what happens, and we're not newbies.

You used to want to be my friend, Rebecca. As far as I know, I did nothing to make you stop. At least you didn't take your own advice to talk to me privately about what it may have been that made you stop.

Anyway, when you began to talk about how you were chatting with others and I began to notice you mocking me along with people who have made it known that they don't like me, it was clear that they were who you wanted to be friends with, so your choice had been made about who you prefer as friends. Not a problem, but when you make proclamations about how friendship is a choice, I can't help but think, yes, you clearly made a choice. These friendships are used to separate the "ins" from the "outs". No intelligent observer can help but notice this here.

Sorry, but the truth hurts. Back to the inevitable denial.

I take each post and call it as I see it. I have disagreed and still disagree at times with all the women I call friends. The one friend who I knew years before this forum and I have disagreed more than once on this forum. I don't base my opinions based on friendships, and I hope people reading my posts see that. Just recently JP and I didn't see eye-to-eye on the honor killing thread yet we continue to speak regularly. I will acknowledge that there are people who defend based merely on their friendships regardless of whether or not they agree with the argument at hand, but I am not one of them.

I do respond to your cabal and other claims about MENA in turn. I don't like the labeling. I feel the ongoing discussion of the "mean" girls is what has really broken up this forum. Instead of everyone working through their clashes, it as if lines have been drawn because of these labels. You used to often post with your perspective on Islam or other issues and I thought you offered a meaningful, alternative perspective that I found refreshing (even if I didn't always 100% agree), and I would always respond in turn with my thoughts. More recently it has been swipes at the "cabal" and the state of the board and I have seen little else from you on this forum (admittedly I do not read every thread and avoid some altogether). I would like to see it get back to how it was before, but I think it has to stop with the labeling and people once again offering opinions in a respectful manner rather than the continued throwing out of labels everytime people don't see eye-to-eye. Since this message cannot convey tone, this is said with respect and not as an attack. I think many people other than just myself enjoyed when you contributed your experience and perspective to threads, including many who venture in from OT and other places.

About PM's telling anyone not to talk to someone if they want to be maintain a friendship -- I have not sent out any nor have I received any. I have never threatened to not be someone's friend based on who they talk to, nor has anyone ever done that to me. I have never been told not to talk to you, nor I have I ever told someone not to. I don't know who is circulating this, but somehow I suspect this has been blown out of proportion. Sure, sometimes when I am getting into it with someone good, one of my friends will say "stop, it is pointless", but it is not an order, a threat to cease the friendship, just a friend telling a friend I am wasting my time, and it has always pertained to a specific discussion and not some ongoing plot. I don't now how it can be denial when I don't see this happened, and when I have asked others, they say they have never sent/received such.

I acknowledge this goes both ways, but I think if the labeling would cease and discussion, even with disagreement, would resume, friendships if meant to be would develop and this everyone in this forum would benefit. Clearly what has been going on as of late benefits no one, most certainly the newest members who may have no other outreach than this forum.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

It is clearly a topic that is supposed to be "off limits" on the board. There are those in denial and those who believe it's "just the way things are". I'm one of those folks who doesn't ignore the elephant in the room.

It's not going away. Blame whom you want, some neblous "others" who are steering the newbies wrong, or whatever. The reality is it is obvious that the same set of folks start the arguments, the same set are the cheering section. It is so predictable that it can be mapped.

As has been said before, MENA is the one with the rep, it has been earned, and denial about why will not help it change for the better.

Edited January 25, 2007 by Green-eyed girl