Police Still Weighing Whether To Charge Man Who Allegedly Killed Burglar

[spookyturtle 9,466]

They could end up charging this 80 year old man with murder. Two people broke into his house, assaulted him and broke his collar bone. What was he supposed to do? Say please, help yourself to whatever you want?

LONG BEACH, Calif. (AP) — Prosecutors Friday were waiting for the results of a police investigation into the killing of a burglar by an 80-year-old California homeowner who says he shot the woman in the back as she fled his home and ran down an alley, the district attorney's office said.

Long Beach resident Tom Greer, 80, told KNBC-TV that the burglar had said she was pregnant and asked Greer not to fire, but he shot her twice in the back anyway.

An autopsy later found that Andrea Miller, 28, was not pregnant, said coroner's spokesman Ed Winter.

"Long Beach police are still investigating," said Sarah Ardalani, spokeswoman for the Los Angeles County district attorney's office. "It's ongoing, and so we're waiting at this point."

Prosecutors filed murder, burglary, robbery and weapons charges against Gus Adams, 26, a suspected accomplice of Miller. He was being held on bail of more than $1 million.

A court appearance initially set for Friday was rescheduled for next month.

The murder charge is possible because Adams is accused of participating in a felony that led to a death, said Long Beach Police Chief Jim McDonnell.

Police said Friday that Adams' mother, Ruby Adams, also was involved, and she was arrested Thursday night on suspicion of robbery. They gave no details on her alleged role or the evidence against her.

McDonnell said the homeowner came home around 9 p.m. Tuesday and surprised Adams and Miller, who were trying to break into a safe. They assaulted him, breaking his collarbone, before he was able to get a handgun, the chief said.

Police said he fired shots inside and outside his house.

Under California law, homeowners have a right to protect themselves with deadly force inside their homes and in the immediate vicinity — such as a patio — if they feel they are in imminent danger of great bodily injury or death, said Lawrence Rosenthal, a former federal prosecutor who teaches law at Chapman University.

But this case enters a gray area because Greer, by his own account, chased the burglars and fired at them outside his home as they were fleeing, Rosenthal said.

"The problem here is that all this happens very fast and his legal right to use force probably ended just a few seconds before he did use deadly force," Rosenthal said. "So the question is should you charge somebody on the basis of what really was a series of split-second decisions when he's just been robbed and physically assaulted?"

McDonnell declined to say how many shots were fired or to confirm that Miller was shot in the back.

No phone listing was available for Greer and he could not be reached for comment by The Associated Press.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/26/burglar-killed_n_5623099.html

[Dakine10 5,452]

Under California law, homeowners have a right to protect themselves with deadly force inside their homes and in the immediate vicinity — such as a patio — if they feel they are in imminent danger of great bodily injury or death, said Lawrence Rosenthal, a former federal prosecutor who teaches law at Chapman University.

But this case enters a gray area because Greer, by his own account, chased the burglars and fired at them outside his home as they were fleeing, Rosenthal said.

"The problem here is that all this happens very fast and his legal right to use force probably ended just a few seconds before he did use deadly force," Rosenthal said. "So the question is should you charge somebody on the basis of what really was a series of split-second decisions when he's just been robbed and physically assaulted?"

IDK. If he no longer had the legal right to use deadly force, then it's not really a grey area. IMO, they will definitely end up charging him.

I feel bad for the guy. I read somwhere that he has been targeted several times by burglars. And he was beat up too. Ultimately, he made a decision to go after them and there should be consequences for that.

[lostinblue 1,989]

Prosecutors filed murder, burglary, robbery and weapons charges against Gus Adams, 26, a suspected accomplice of Miller. He was being held on bail of more than $1 million.

Looks like her friend was charged with murder.... The man defending himself will also be charged .

Greer, by his own account, chased the burglars and fired at them outside his home as they were fleeing,....He also will be charged..... Anti-gun DA in California....... Yes he will be charged.

Judicious Use of Deadly Force by Massad Ayoob

A good video on this subject.

[Teddy B 17,252]

I am of the belief that once a person makes the decision to illegally enter another persons home, then whatever happens as a result of that is justified. I don't care if the burglar is armed, not armed or pregnant and running away. If you enter a persons home illegally, the end result is on the criminal not the home owner.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I am of the belief that once a person makes the decision to illegally enter another persons home, then whatever happens as a result of that is justified. I don't care if the burglar is armed, not armed or pregnant and running away. If you enter a persons home illegally, the end result is on the criminal not the home owner.

At one time here in MA, if someone broke into your home and your were there, you were supposed to try to escape, not defend yourself. Talk about fvcked up. I don't see how a person should not be able to defend their home against an intrruder.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

At one time here in MA, if someone broke into your home and your were there, you were supposed to try to escape, not defend yourself. Talk about fvcked up. I don't see how a person should not be able to defend their home against an intrruder.

In Sicily, if you caught a person breaking into your home, you're not allowed to engage them. The proper thing to do was turn on the lights, the burglar will put down your stuff and leave. If you shot them, you'd go to jail. Don't know if this has been changed since then (2002-2005) but that was the rule.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

In Sicily, if you caught a person breaking into your home, you're not allowed to engage them. The proper thing to do was turn on the lights, the burglar will put down your stuff and leave. If you shot them, you'd go to jail. Don't know if this has been changed since then (2002-2005) but that was the rule.

Sicily must have law abiding criminals. Unfortunately the ones in the US have no such etiquette.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

If you shoot a person that's running from you in the back, that's murder. Period.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

If you shoot a person that's running from you in the back, that's murder. Period.

What if said person had shot you and you were lying on the ground and got him? Just because someone assaulted you in your own home and ran away they get a free pass?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

What if said person had shot you and you were lying on the ground and got him? Just because someone assaulted you in your own home and ran away they get a free pass?

No, they don't get a free pass but shooting someone that runs from you in the back should never count as self-defense. Simply because it isn't.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

No, they don't get a free pass but shooting someone that runs from you in the back should never count as self-defense. Simply because it isn't.

How would you know if they were going to come back again or go get one of their pals to help them? Better to err on the side of caution.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

How would you know if they were going to come back again or go get one of their pals to help them? Better to err on the side of caution.

You shoot them when they come back. Then you're not shooting them in the back. And you're actually defending yourself from an imminent threat.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Sicily must have law abiding criminals. Unfortunately the ones in the US have no such etiquette.

Not violent. I've had my car broken into while I was there. So did everyone else on the island. The guy who did the Security briefing was late due to his car being broken into. It's more petty in nature. You have your Mafia, but that's more on the Sicilian side, not so much towards us.

[Darnell 8,478]

when I was in High School in Texas - me and some buddies got some special training from DA in the DA's office for a week. Some civics stuff requirement, as I remember.

In of of his lectures, he explained (back in the early '80s, mind you) that if you shoot and kill someone fleeing your house, you better drag them back inside the front door.

If the death occurred inside your house, the self-defense 'stuff' was easier.

So he said. and yes, Just saying...

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I expect everyone here to allow a home invader to do whatever they want and do nothing to defend themselves. The rights of the criminals always come before those of the victims.