Visa overstays get amnesty... They break the law, and then get to stay...

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

I don't know how people can truly believe that living life as an undocumented migrant in this country is in any way desirable. I would wager a guess that given the opportunity to come here in the way our spouses do, those poor schmucks that sneak across the southern border would take that over their path any day of the week and twice on Sundays. To pretend that they are somehow better off is just utterly ridiculous.

You mean to say that if I were to pay their way to come over legally they would prefer that? Well duh.

Or are you trying to say that they don't sneak over because it is the easiest and cheapest way to get here?

[Karee 4,190]

I tell you what... let's keep this simple and un-confusing for everyone. Without any snide, deprecating remarks that typically go along with your replies, can you answer either YES or NO to the following question for us:

Has the national debt increased more under Obama in 5 years than it did under Bush in 8 years?

Year by Year Breakout:

• FY 2009 - Although this was actually President Bush's last budget, it was being implemented during Obama's first year. Congress agreed to add the first year's worth of spending from the Economic Stimulus Act to this. That $253 billion accrues to Obama.
• FY 2010 - Obama's first budget created a $1.293 trillion deficit.
• FY 2012 - The deficit was the largest in history, at $1.327 trillion.
• FY 2011 - It contributed $1.299 trillion to the debt.
• FY 2013 - This was the first Obama budget where the deficit, $901 billion, was less than $1 trillion.

http://useconomy.about.com/od/usdebtanddeficit/p/National-Debt-Under-Obama.htm

Obama

253+

1293+

1327+

1299+

901+

5.072 Trillion in 5 years (This only counts up to FY2013)

President Bush added $3.294 trillion to the debt in eight years thanks to the Bush tax cuts and the War on Terror, both of which were responses to events that happened in his first year in office. Bush inherited the 2001 recession, which he combated by passing the EGTRRA. It attempted to stimulate the economy by lowering tax rates for most families, which resulted in tax rebate checks being mailed out through that summer. The recession officially ended in November, as economic growth started to improve.

Bush 3.294 Trillion in 8 years

5.072

3.294 -

1.778=

1.778 trillion more under 5 years of Obama vs.the 8 years Bush was in office.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

He don't, don't he?

He is going to get it automatically because we love goberment handouts.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Well if Obama has his way, they wont be undocumented. Kinda the point of this thread. Try to keep up.

It is painfully obvious that it you that needs to keep up with the current events. Nobody has ever suggested that folks should be able to cross the border and then just be afforded papers. The proposal was to afford those that have been here for years and have established their lives here should be able to work here and reside here and yes, eventually work their way towards US citizenship. That is a process way longer and way more complicated than that which anyone here goes through or has gone through. Which is the point I was making. Try to catch it next time.

I tell you what... let's keep this simple and un-confusing for everyone. Without any snide, deprecating remarks that typically go along with your replies, can you answer either YES or NO to the following question for us:

Has the national debt increased more under Obama in 5 years than it did under Bush in 8 years?

In plain dollars, yes. Relative to the national debt each faced coming into the office, no. That should be simple enough, yes?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Obama

253+

1293+

1327+

1299+

901+

5.072 Trillion in 5 years (This only counts up to FY2013)

Bush 3.294 Trillion in 8 years

5.072

3.294 -

1.778=

1.778 trillion more under 5 years of Obama vs.the 8 years Bush was in office.

Interesting math there. The national debt stood at $6 trillion dollars at the end of FY 2001. It stood at $12 trillion 8 years later. Now take out that $253 billion that is attributable to Obama in FY 2009 per your calculation. Leaves the debt standing at $11.75 trillion after 8 Bush budgets. How is 11.75 - 6 = 3.3. Last I checked, 11.75 - 6 = 5.75. And 5.75 would appear to be greater than 5.1. But that's just me. ODS math must work differently.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Mr. Big Dog

[Karee 4,190]

Interesting math there. The national debt stood at $6 trillion dollars at the end of FY 2001. It stood at $12 trillion 8 years later. Now take out that $253 billion that is attributable to Obama in FY 2009 per your calculation. Leaves the debt standing at $11.75 trillion after 8 Bush budgets. How is 11.75 - 6 = 3.3. Last I checked, 11.75 - 6 = 5.75. And 5.75 would appear to be greater than 5.1. But that's just me. ODS math must work differently.

Apparently you didn't click the link. It explains it all there. Numbers don't lie no matter how much you wish they did.

[Karee 4,190]

It is painfully obvious that it you that needs to keep up with the current events. Nobody has ever suggested that folks should be able to cross the border and then just be afforded papers. The proposal was to afford those that have been here for years and have established their lives here should be able to work here and reside here and yes, eventually work their way towards US citizenship. That is a process way longer and way more complicated than that which anyone here goes through or has gone through. Which is the point I was making. Try to catch it next time.

No they wont get papers immediately. That's not the point. They'll get to stay and down the road they'll get their papers. They wont deport anyone unless they've committed a crime in the U.S. other than entering without inspection. Even large numbers of those folks come back and commit even more crimes. Who knows what crimes they committed in their home countries. All they do is ask them a few questions and that's good enough. In the mean time that encourages even more to come illegally. Rinse, repeat etc.

Look what happened in 1980 with the Mariel boatlift. Castro emptied his prisons and mental institutions and put them on boats bound for Florida.

Who cares about the consequences, as long as the Democrat party can get more folks to vote for them. The ironic thing is that the people who are gonna get screwed the most by all this are low income folks and union workers. Think the minority unemployment rate is high now? Wait until they add millions more unskilled workers to the mix.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

All joking aside, it hurts to think that downward spiral is continuing, and illegal immigration is only part of it. Both parties have been on a mission that has been destroying this country for a couple of decades. How far have we fallen? Our time has peaked. The old gray mare ain't what she used to be.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

It is painfully obvious that it you that needs to keep up with the current events. Nobody has ever suggested that folks should be able to cross the border and then just be afforded papers. The proposal was to afford those that have been here for years and have established their lives here should be able to work here and reside here and yes, eventually work their way towards US citizenship. That is a process way longer and way more complicated than that which anyone here goes through or has gone through. Which is the point I was making. Try to catch it next time.

In plain dollars, yes. Relative to the national debt each faced coming into the office, no. That should be simple enough, yes?

So do we get to subtract Bush's first year also since it was Clinton's budget ?

[JohnR! 5,495]

Interesting math there. The national debt stood at $6 trillion dollars at the end of FY 2001. It stood at $12 trillion 8 years later. Now take out that $253 billion that is attributable to Obama in FY 2009 per your calculation. Leaves the debt standing at $11.75 trillion after 8 Bush budgets. How is 11.75 - 6 = 3.3. Last I checked, 11.75 - 6 = 5.75. And 5.75 would appear to be greater than 5.1. But that's just me. ODS math must work differently.

You are wasting your time. It is obvious the other poster is infatuated by his/her own notion.

[TBoneTX 45,309]

Folks, the personal bickering is detracting from an otherwise-good thread. Please avoid letting it detract from your further participation in the thread. Thanks.

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

It is painfully obvious that it you that needs to keep up with the current events. Nobody has ever suggested that folks should be able to cross the border and then just be afforded papers. The proposal was to afford those that have been here for years and have established their lives here should be able to work here and reside here and yes, eventually work their way towards US citizenship. That is a process way longer and way more complicated than that which anyone here goes through or has gone through. Which is the point I was making. Try to catch it next time.

In plain dollars, yes. Relative to the national debt each faced coming into the office, no. That should be simple enough, yes?

You proved my point most eloquently. Thank you for participating.

Hint: The answer was - YES

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

No they wont get papers immediately. That's not the point. They'll get to stay and down the road they'll get their papers. They wont deport anyone unless they've committed a crime in the U.S. other than entering without inspection. Even large numbers of those folks come back and commit even more crimes. Who knows what crimes they committed in their home countries. All they do is ask them a few questions and that's good enough. In the mean time that encourages even more to come illegally. Rinse, repeat etc.

Look what happened in 1980 with the Mariel boatlift. Castro emptied his prisons and mental institutions and put them on boats bound for Florida.

Who cares about the consequences, as long as the Democrat party can get more folks to vote for them. The ironic thing is that the people who are gonna get screwed the most by all this are low income folks and union workers. Think the minority unemployment rate is high now? Wait until they add millions more unskilled workers to the mix.

And you're still missing the point entirely. The simple point I was making is that migrating here illegally is neither easier nor provides a faster path to immigration benefits than lawfully migrating here as the fiance(e) or spouse of a US citizen. There are petitioners here in this discussion that have suggested otherwise. All I did was point out that such notion is utterly ridiculous. That's all. Clear now?

Edited August 2, 2014 by Mr. Big Dog

[Karee 4,190]

And you're still missing the point entirely. The simple point I was making is that migrating here illegally is neither easier nor provides a faster path to immigration benefits than lawfully migrating here as the fiance(e) or spouse of a US citizen. There are petitioners here in this discussion that have suggested otherwise. All I did was point out that such notion is utterly ridiculous. That's all. Clear now?

That was like 18 topic changes ago. Don't fret though. You're cheerleader will be along shortly to tell you what a great job you're doing.

[Avery Cates 1,141]

Let's bring some troop home, and their UAVs with them.

Securing the border with Hellfire missiles is probably the best idea ever.