If we did election over today, Romney would trounce Obama: Nationwide Poll

[unsmiley 111]

With this type of mindset I can see exactly why people would rather just sit back and suck off the gov't teet for life. Why bother trying to better yourself if you're going to viewed as a freeloader anyway? Might as well play the part their getting accused of playing, right?

Have you given any thought to what the financial burden of this country would be if these so called "freeloaders" you refer to simply stopped working and decided to collect benefits? Whether you want to think so or not, these people provide a great benefit to the economy, even if they do not end up paying taxes at the end of the year.

These people are doing just that right now. Contributing nothing in taxes and bleeding us other suckers that actually pay taxes. You still have not told us why these blue collar workers can't sacrifice like other people and pay at least something in taxes.

Even Joe Biden (!) says "we should all have some skin in the game." And how about that other liberal classic: "It is your patriotic duty to pay taxes." But I guess to people of your mindset these only apply to "non hard-working white collar" workers. What a joke.

[GandD 5,966]

What a joke is right.

[Teddy B 17,252]

These people are doing just that right now. Contributing nothing in taxes and bleeding us other suckers that actually pay taxes. You still have not told us why these blue collar workers can't sacrifice like other people and pay at least something in taxes.

Even Joe Biden (!) says "we should all have some skin in the game." And how about that other liberal classic: "It is your patriotic duty to pay taxes." But I guess to people of your mindset these only apply to "non hard-working white collar" workers. What a joke.

I would attempt to explain to you how having approx. 25% of the population employed and paying their bills but not paying taxes greatly benefits the country, but for some reason I think it would go way over your head.

I'm all for a flat tax. FYI genius, I am an upper middle class white collar worker. My annual household income is right around 200K.

[unsmiley 111]

I would attempt to explain to you how having approx. 25% of the population employed and paying their bills but not paying taxes greatly benefits the country, but for some reason I think it would go way over your head.

I'm all for a flat tax. FYI genius, I am an upper middle class white collar worker. My annual household income is right around 200K.

No need to get personal, Teddy B. I had no preconceived notions about you or your job. It is irrelevant to this discussion.

You still have not explained why they cannot pay taxes. They are paying their bills on the backs of others. Even if they benefit the country (a point upon which I did not take a position on here), they can certainly benefit society more by coughing up some tax money, and learning to share in the pain and sacrifice we (as taxpayers) go through every day.

[decocker 7,198]

wait, who doesn't pay taxes? just because a blue collar worker gets a signficant return at the end of the year doesn't mean they aren't paying in. so why so pissed at the little guy with mouths to feed and not a care in the world towards the businesses that jump through every possible hoop to pay as little as possible if anything at all?

[Umka36 781]

Everyone one pays tax in one form or another. When you buy something, it most likely will be taxed even with the "free money". I agree to a point about helping those in need, but it should only be temporary. I also realize that we typically only hear the bad folks who abuse the system, which rubs people the wrong way.

[UncleBeer 244]

There's an underlying principal here. I'm reminded of a quote from Abraham Lincoln:

That is the real issue. That is the issue that will continue in this country when these poor tongues of Judge Douglas and myself shall be silent. It is the eternal struggle between these two principles — right and wrong — throughout the world. They are the two principles that have stood face to face from the beginning of time, and will ever continue to struggle. The one is the common right of humanity and the other the divine right of kings. It is the same principle in whatever shape it develops itself. It is the same spirit that says, ‘You work and toil and earn bread, and I’ll eat it.’ No matter in what shape it comes, whether from the mouth of a king who seeks to bestride the people of his own nation and live by the fruit of their labor, or from one race of men as an apology for enslaving another race, it is the same tyrannical principle.

Of course he's also talking about economic enslavement as well: like "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs".

[Teddy B 17,252]

You still have not explained why they cannot pay taxes. They are paying their bills on the backs of others. Even if they benefit the country (a point upon which I did not take a position on here), they can certainly benefit society more by coughing up some tax money, and learning to share in the pain and sacrifice we (as taxpayers) go through every day.

If these working people who barely make enough to survive are forced to pay taxes and dig into the money they use to pay their bills, then where do they get the money to pay their bills? From welfare and other social programs, that's where. You're talking about a faction of the population that wants to work and make a living but barely make enough to get by. If you start taking some of their money away for taxes, they will then become dependent on gov't programs to survive, which is what I thought you wanted to prevent, no?

Even with a flat tax there will be a faction of the population who will be tax exempt. Wouldn't you rather have them working and providing for their families, rather than sitting back and sucking off the gov't teet? Not to mention that most of the jobs that these people hold are in the service industries, yanno the food and hotel workers who wait on the white collar workers every day and the construction workers who build our homes?

Edited July 29, 2014 by Teddy B

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Of course he doesn't care about campaigning for, or preaching to them. It would have been a complete waste of time. See below.

It was absolutely about campaigning for votes. And he was absolutely right. The tax freeloaders (the "47%") would never vote for him since they'd have to get off that gravy train. For hopefully the last time: he was writing off those that would NEVER support him, as ALL candidates do. No point in wasting time and limited money on trying to convince those that would not vote for him under any circumstances. Both sides do this, I would do this, & I'm sure you would do this. However it was inelegantly stated and taken out of context. Candidates on all sides only spend real time on those that are possible to reach. This quote was twisted by the media and you (and too many others) eagerly bought it.

He said that in the context of campaigning for votes, but you knew that already didn't you?

To both of you.

When you're on the trail, you reach out to everyone, last time I checked. Maybe if he did that, he would be President.

[Karee 4,190]

There's also a nice little nugget in the tax code called the Earned Income Tax Credit. That allows people that don't pay any federal income taxes, to get money back from the government simply by generating children.

To both of you.

When you're on the trail, you reach out to everyone, last time I checked. Maybe if he did that, he would be President.

So what your saying is that because he made one statement that was taken out of context that it should define his whole campaign? Kinda like "You didn't build that, the government did"

[decocker 7,198]

There's also a nice little nugget in the tax code called the Earned Income Tax Credit. That allows people that don't pay any federal income taxes, to get money back from the government simply by generating children.

I was eligible for EIC up until about five years ago. The cut off for me and my son to be eligible was like 40,000 a year I think?Anyway I wasn't eligible for a lack of working and paying taxes throughout the year. The percentage of people that do not work and qualify for EIC is an impoverished portion of the population. And honestly, the money they receive in EIC goes right back into the market. It's not like anyone is getting rich or living comfortably off of the EIC deduction.

[Karee 4,190]

I was eligible for EIC up until about five years ago. The cut off for me and my son to be eligible was like 40,000 a year I think?Anyway I wasn't eligible for a lack of working and paying taxes throughout the year. The percentage of people that do not work and qualify for EIC is an impoverished portion of the population. And honestly, the money they receive in EIC goes right back into the market. It's not like anyone is getting rich or living comfortably off of the EIC deduction.

I had a family member that was getting like $5k a year via the EITC a few years ago. Not too mention all the school loans and grants etc. that were never paid back and were guaranteed by the govt.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I would attempt to explain to you how having approx. 25% of the population employed and paying their bills but not paying taxes greatly benefits the country, but for some reason I think it would go way over your head.

I'm all for a flat tax. FYI genius, I am an upper middle class white collar worker. My annual household income is right around 200K.

Did not you just say yesterday, you don't understand how people could attack someone just for having a different view point. or words to that effect ?

[unsmiley 111]

wait, who doesn't pay taxes? just because a blue collar worker gets a signficant return at the end of the year doesn't mean they aren't paying in. so why so pissed at the little guy with mouths to feed and not a care in the world towards the businesses that jump through every possible hoop to pay as little as possible if anything at all?

"Paying" taxes by having them deducted from a paycheck and getting a refund for at least the same amount at the end of the year is not paying taxes at all.

Everyone one pays tax in one form or another. When you buy something, it most likely will be taxed even with the "free money". I agree to a point about helping those in need, but it should only be temporary. I also realize that we typically only hear the bad folks who abuse the system, which rubs people the wrong way.

Absolutely wrong thinking about taxes. And I am talking income taxes here, that's the biggie. Every time in a discussion like this someone brings up the fact that low earners people pay sales taxes, or some other miniscule tax. We all pay those taxes, including the rich. Sales taxes and income taxes are in no way equivalent in terms of dollars. And certainly high income citizens pay much more in sales taxes that low wage earners, anyway. This is a red herring designed to deflect the argument away from the fact that we have millions and millions paying no income taxes at all. (And that's the definition of "freeloader", Teddy.)

[unsmiley 111]

To both of you.

When you're on the trail, you reach out to everyone, last time I checked. Maybe if he did that, he would be President.

Sorry but you are talking about a perfect world, with unlimited funds and time with which to run a campaign. It is never done like that, unfortunately.