Canadians deliver water to protest Detroit shutoffs

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

www.guardian.co.uk

To be fair I remember when a lot of these services were badly run by the Government.

I do object in principal to both Government involvement, because they operate things so badly, and private companies running monopolies.

Tricky one.

I found it, it was in Harper's magazine and it is called

Broken Britain: Nothing is left of the family silver

Have to subscribe to get online access. Was so striking, though, I still remember it.

Some of things involve his father's death that he attributed to lack of heating that took the new gas company months to fix, for no reason.

And that all the footballs teams (or many? or some?) are owned by Saudis and UAE, etc.

I have read similar things since, but this one was powerful. It was full of examples, well thought out.

[Karee 4,190]

I have tried before to find an online version of the account I read, which was damning, shocking, personal, and well written, but it's not online. Which is too bad because it would be interesting discussion. I read it in print. I think it was in Harper's.

I'd like to read about it. It seems in most cases private businesses do a better job of running things than a govt. agency. Amtrak, USPS, etc. are a few examples here in the U.S. that should be privatized IMO. Just googling around it seems there's both good and bad cases of privatization. Seems it worked out well in Argentina and they were able to expand the public water supply to rural areas because of privitization, although the govt. later re-nationalized the water utility. In other cases the prices went up, although I suppose it's hard to say if they would have went up at the same or greater/lesser of a rate if they were still run by government.

It's an interesting subject really. On one hand you would think that it would be run better by private companies because they're generally better at running things than governments since most of the politics are out of it and there's semi free market competition involved They are freer to make decisions without govt. interference etc. On the other hand, the private companies may put profits above all else, to the extent that the water could be unsafe. Maybe some kind of mix between private ownership and government regulation would be good (which appears to be the case in the UK)

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Socialists are happy until they run out of other people's money.

― Margaret Thatcher

You can step up and spend some of your money.... But I doubt you ever will.... You liberals....It is spend others money. ... If every liberal skipped going out to dinner tonight this would be a non issue tomorrow ... If you sent that money to this organization. ....

What do you personally think should be done here? Do you think people should die if they can't afford the water bill?

What do you think will happen to an urban centre with no running water?

[Karee 4,190]

I found it, it was in Harper's magazine and it is called

Broken Britain: Nothing is left of the family silver

Have to subscribe to get online access. Was so striking, though, I still remember it.

Some of things involve his father's death that he attributed to lack of heating that took the new gas company months to fix, for no reason.

And that all the footballs teams (or many? or some?) are owned by Saudis and UAE, etc.

I have read similar things since, but this one was powerful. It was full of examples, well thought out.

Yeah one of those premier league teams (Manchester City) was owned by the corrupt former PM of Thailand who was and still is on the run from corruption charges in Thailand. I guess the saying as long is the money is green (Or blue and purple in the UKs case) they'll sell to anyone applies.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I love this statement being that I never said this. But, when people are losing their battle they tend to start making up s###. Being that I'm from Tennessee, I know all whites aren't privileged. Have you met anyone from the Appalachians before?

Of course not. You despise people who grow up less fortunate than you.

White privilege is a term batted around a lot on here. You have been gone and if you did not say it I apologize. As Karee said, I can't remember what I had for lunch half the time. I am glad you recognize privlage is not a soley white thing and not all whites are privileged. Yes i grew up in a rural area. I know about poverty

You did however say white people invented crack ,which is out there

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

I'd like to read about it. It seems in most cases private businesses do a better job of running things than a govt. agency. Amtrak, USPS, etc. are a few examples here in the U.S. that should be privatized IMO. Just googling around it seems there's both good and bad cases of privatization. Seems it worked out well in Argentina and they were able to expand the public water supply to rural areas because of privitization, although the govt. later re-nationalized the water utility. In other cases the prices went up, although I suppose it's hard to say if they would have went up at the same or greater/lesser of a rate if they were still run by government.

It's an interesting subject really. On one hand you would think that it would be run better by private companies because they're generally better at running things than governments since most of the politics are out of it and there's semi free market competition involved They are freer to make decisions without govt. interference etc. On the other hand, the private companies may put profits above all else, to the extent that the water could be unsafe. Maybe some kind of mix between private ownership and government regulation would be good (which appears to be the case in the UK)

It is an interesting subject. Generally I think that the gov run stuff is a better system for vital services. I think they should try to improve the service, but the alternative, putting profits above anything, is bad.

I think USPS works okay. It is far cheaper than the private-owned companies. I get that sometimes their service sucks, and I have complained about my local office's workers, but I think people should be able to send a letter for cents, not dollars. They are only losing money so bad, because of some weird rule that they have to be able to pay their retirement or something, for a crazy long time, like 100 years, and they hadn't done so now their accountants are borrowing on themselves. It;s some stupid law and some stupid accounting. Not because of their service, which is only sometimes stupid.

I also think people should use USPS as much as possible, because I think not having it would be dire.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Yeah one of those premier league teams (Manchester City) was owned by the corrupt former PM of Thailand who was and still is on the run from corruption charges in Thailand. I guess the saying as long is the money is green (Or blue and purple in the UKs case) they'll sell to anyone applies.

Right, and the thought is, should a country sell off one of their national prides just to let the foreign interest make a buck? Isn't that sort of nausea-inducing? It's like selling the Statue of Liberty to whoever and letting them make a profit off of it, because one year the US didn't make enough money on it, and saw a short-term solution.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It is if you want others to pay the bill every month. You do believe in personal responsibility, don't you?

It's amazing your country has lasted 200 years with that attitude. Personal responsibility is all well and good but no man is an island. What about civic responsibility, collective responsibility? Hell, why do you even bother to have elections. Perhaps you'd all be better off if the USA emulated Somalia.

[JohnR! 5,495]

I love this statement being that I never said this. But, when people are losing their battle they tend to start making up s###. Being that I'm from Tennessee, I know all whites aren't privileged. Have you met anyone from the Appalachians before?

Of course not. You despise people who grow up less fortunate than you.

Alas, it is not about what you said. It is about making stuff up. You nailed it!

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

It is an interesting subject. Generally I think that the gov run stuff is a better system for vital services. I think they should try to improve the service, but the alternative, putting profits above anything, is bad.

I think USPS works okay. It is far cheaper than the private-owned companies. I get that sometimes their service sucks, and I have complained about my local office's workers, but I think people should be able to send a letter for cents, not dollars. They are only losing money so bad, because of some weird rule that they have to be able to pay their retirement or something, for a crazy long time, like 100 years, and they hadn't done so now their accountants are borrowing on themselves. It;s some stupid law and some stupid accounting. Not because of their service, which is only sometimes stupid.

I also think people should use USPS as much as possible, because I think not having it would be dire.

Betcha anything that Fedex and UPS could offer much cheaper services if they received huge govt subsidies and did not pay taxes.

The battle the post offcie faces is it has deliver a letter to BFE Alaska F=Florida for the same price it does LA.

[Karee 4,190]

It is an interesting subject. Generally I think that the gov run stuff is a better system for vital services. I think they should try to improve the service, but the alternative, putting profits above anything, is bad.

I think USPS works okay. It is far cheaper than the private-owned companies. I get that sometimes their service sucks, and I have complained about my local office's workers, but I think people should be able to send a letter for cents, not dollars. They are only losing money so bad, because of some weird rule that they have to be able to pay their retirement or something, for a crazy long time, like 100 years, and they hadn't done so now their accountants are borrowing on themselves. It;s some stupid law and some stupid accounting. Not because of their service, which is only sometimes stupid.

I also think people should use USPS as much as possible, because I think not having it would be dire.

Yeah I agree with all of that. I think in the USPS case it's more of a congressional problem (shocker!) They're trying to close down all these post offices that aren't needed and try to consolidate them which makes sense. Why should a town with 500 people have it's own post office? I think they've also tried to partner up with some private entities like Mailboxes etc. The problem is that they can't sneeze without congressional approval, and we all know what a waste of air congress is. No congressman/women wants any govt. entity shut down in their district. Hey! Maybe they should privatize congress!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Canadians deliver water to protest Detroit shutoffs

Matt Helms, Detroit Free Press7:09 p.m. EDT July 24, 2014

(Photo: Eric Seals, Detroit Free Press)

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5]DETROIT Protesters fighting water shutoffs in Detroit greeted a convoy of Canadians who traveled to the city with hundreds of gallons of water to help those who have been cut off because of unpaid bills.

5]Maude Barlow, a leading water rights advocate in Canada, and other activists brought 750 gallons of water in a seven-vehicle convoy that traveled through the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel to deliver the water and the message that the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department's policy of shutting off service to delinquent customers violates the United Nations' 2010 declaration that water is a human right.

5]"What that means is that every country in the world is responsible for looking after their most vulnerable people," said Barlow, national chairwoman of the Council of Canadians, a social advocacy group. "It means that every country in the world is not allowed to turn the tap off of water that is already being delivered, and it means that nobody has the right to say no to water for people who cannot afford it."

USATODAY

Detroit faces heat over water shutoffs

5]It was the latest protest since the city declared a 15-day pause in shutoffs of residential customers as Detroit drew international attention for cutting water service in an effort to collect millions of dollars in unpaid bills.

5]Detroit says it has 90,000 delinquent accounts totaling more than $90 million. The city has been stepping up collections efforts since last fall, and in April and May alone cut off service to more than 7,500 customers moves that have prompted outrage among groups that advocate for poor people in a city with deep unemployment and the scars of decades of neglect.

USATODAY

Detroit suspends water shutoffs for 15 days

5]The shutoffs drew criticism from U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Steven Rhodes, who said the policy was giving the city a negative image even as it fights for its financial future in its historic Chapter 9 bankruptcy case.

5]City officials told him they're working to expand education efforts and to pull together more financial assistance for customers without the means to pay.

5]Paul Moist, national president of the Canadian Union of Public Employees, also was in the convoy and said that, while the water the Canadians delivered was small, it was meant to be a symbolic criticism of corporate, right-wing policies that pit poor people against others.

5]"America is better than this," he said. "If the richest country in the world can bail out banks and bail out Wall Street with public money, then public money from the state level and the national level can be used to help the people of Detroit who are in harm's way health-wise without water."

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Obviously the government should step in and provide relief. What is the government for if not serving the interests of all of its citizens.

[Karee 4,190]

Right, and the thought is, should a country sell off one of their national prides just to let the foreign interest make a buck? Isn't that sort of nausea-inducing? It's like selling the Statue of Liberty to whoever and letting them make a profit off of it, because one year the US didn't make enough money on it, and saw a short-term solution.

I'm actually for selling off national parks, museums etc. to private interests. It does seem wrong to sell them to some conglomerate in Dubai though. When we had that alleged "government shutdown" last October nothing really changed that I could see. Although I think only 10% or so of the govt. was actually shut down.

When we have a national debt that is more than 100% of national GDP, everything should be on the table (except social security) when it comes to reducing expenditures.

[Boiler 45,535]

I found it, it was in Harper's magazine and it is called

Broken Britain: Nothing is left of the family silver

Have to subscribe to get online access. Was so striking, though, I still remember it.

Some of things involve his father's death that he attributed to lack of heating that took the new gas company months to fix, for no reason.

And that all the footballs teams (or many? or some?) are owned by Saudis and UAE, etc.

I have read similar things since, but this one was powerful. It was full of examples, well thought out.

No different to the US or any Country that has had a negative balance of payments for years.

Ruskies and Yanks are involved as well in footie.

Absolute horror story about the water system of the local town.

I do remember a long time ago in the UK when it was run by the Gov that it took a normal 6 months to get a telephone line.

[Boiler 45,535]

Yeah I agree with all of that. I think in the USPS case it's more of a congressional problem (shocker!) They're trying to close down all these post offices that aren't needed and try to consolidate them which makes sense. Why should a town with 500 people have it's own post office? I think they've also tried to partner up with some private entities like Mailboxes etc. The problem is that they can't sneeze without congressional approval, and we all know what a waste of air congress is. No congressman/women wants any govt. entity shut down in their district. Hey! Maybe they should privatize congress!

We have a Post Office, 17 year round residents.

Common issue a service that has been unable to change to match its customers, think Blockbusters.