Facts All US Citizens Need to Know About Israel and Palestine

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

For fairness the casualties from both sides (you guys are way too fast):

[decocker 7,198]

Me too. But I'll take the do nothing Christians of the South or the suicide bombing Muslims of the East any day. One's really annoying and frustrating. The other one kills people.

i'm just saying, just because they seem merely annoying and frustrating, doesn't mean that some chain of events in the future won't poke the hornets nest.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Me too. But I'll take the do nothing Christians of the South "Americas dogmatic religions"or the suicide bombing Muslims of the East any day. One's really annoying and frustrating. The other one kills people.

I fixed it for you.

[rlogan 2,036]

but of course, as an atheist, my opinion on religion is biased. as is my opinion of israel/palestineans. i'll cop to that cause if anything it's biased by what i was taught as a child in church, support for israel is imperative to the survival of christianity in america and ultimately victory upon jesus' return.

I watch 700 club for entertainment occasionally and listen to them preaching about this, but ordinary Christians won't be honest about it.

Since the position is so irrational, they instead argue dishonestly about their motivations.

[decocker 7,198]

I watch 700 club for entertainment occasionally and listen to them preaching about this, but ordinary Christians won't be honest about it.

Since the position is so irrational, they instead argue dishonestly about their motivations.

i do too, i also listen to christian radio exclusively. i like to know what they're up to.

[rlogan 2,036]

It's one of the important things to understand about any political argument: how deceptive people are about their true intentions.

Yet, what they really reveal is how little faith they actually have. The televangelists aren't shy about preaching to the choir how Israel means the return of Jesus. But when interacting with the enemy - infidels like us - this has to be concealed.

That's how you really win with the infidels - get them arguing about chicken vs. egg, who fired the first shot in today's skirmish. Because you'll lose so decisively in a contest over the rationality of the modern day Crusade.

[OriZ 3,157]

This was funny:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-HbHd-XPyM

[Póg mo 1,749]

Eight hundred dead Palestinians. But Israel has impunity

There’s something very odd about our reactions to these two outrageous death tolls

Impunity is the word that comes to mind. Eight hundred dead Palestinians. Eight hundred. That’s infinitely more than twice the total dead of flight MH17 over Ukraine. And if you refer only to the “innocent” dead – ie no Hamas fighters, young sympathisers or corrupt Hamas officials, with whom the Israelis will, in due course, have to talk – then the women and children and elderly who have been slaughtered in Gaza are still well over the total number of MH17 victims.

And there’s something very odd, isn’t there, about our reactions to these two outrageous death tolls. In Gaza, we plead for a ceasefire but let them bury their dead in the sweltering slums of Gaza and cannot even open a humanitarian route for the wounded. For the passengers on MH17, we demand – immediately – proper burial and care for the relatives of the dead. We curse those who left bodies lying in the fields of eastern Ukraine – as many bodies have been lying, for a shorter time, perhaps, but under an equally oven-like sky, in Gaza.

Because – and this has been creeping up on me for years – we don’t care so much about the Palestinians, do we? We care neither about Israeli culpability, which is far greater because of the larger number of civilians the Israeli army have killed. Nor, for that matter, Hamas’s capability. Of course, God forbid that the figures should have been the other way round. If 800 Israelis had died and only 35 Palestinians, I think I know our reaction.

We would call it – rightly – a slaughter, an atrocity, a crime for which the killers must be made accountable. Yes, Hamas should be made accountable, too. But why is it that the only criminals we are searching for today are the men who fired one – perhaps two – missiles at an airliner over Ukraine? If Israel’s dead equalled those of the Palestinians – and let me repeat, thank heavens this is not the case – I suspect that the Americans would be offering all military support to an Israel endangered by “Iranian-backed terrorists”. We would be demanding that Hamas hand over the monsters who fired rockets at Israel and who are, by the way, trying to hit aircraft at Tel Aviv’s Ben Gurion airport. But we are not doing this. Because those who have died are mostly Palestinians.

More questions. What’s the limit for Palestinian deaths before we have a ceasefire? Eight hundred? Or 8,000? Could we have a scorecard? The exchange rate for dead? Or would we just wait until our gorge rises at the blood and say enough – even for Israel’s war, enough is enough. It’s not as if we have not been through all this before.

From the massacre of Arab villagers by Israel’s new army in 1948, as it is set down by Israeli historians, to the Sabra and Shatila massacre, when Lebanese Christian allies of Israel murdered up to 1,700 people in 1982 while Israeli troops watched; from the Qana massacre of Lebanese Arabs at the UN base – yes, the UN again – in 1996, to another, smaller terrible killing at Qana (again) 10 years later. And so to the mass killing of civilians in the 2008-9 Gaza war. And after Sabra and Shatila, there were inquiries, and after Qana there was an inquiry and after Gaza in 2008-9, there was an inquiry and don’t we remember the weight of it, somewhat lightened of course when Judge Goldstone did his best to disown it, when – according to my Israeli friends – he came under intense personal pressure.

In other words, we have been here before. The claim that only “terrorists” are to blame for those whom Hamas kills and only “terrorists” are to blame for those whom Israel kills (Hamas “terrorists”, of course). And the constant claim, repeated over and over and over, that Israel has the highest standards of any army in the world and would never hurt civilians. I recall here the 17,500 dead of Israel’s 1982 invasion of Lebanon, most of whom were civilians. Have we forgotten all this?

And apart from impunity, the word stupidity comes to mind. I will forget here the corrupt Arabs and the killers of Isis and the wholesale mass murders of Iraq and Syria. Perhaps their indifference to “Palestine” is to be expected. They do not claim to represent our values. But what do we make of John Kerry, Obama’s Secretary of State, who told us last week that the “underlying issues” of the Israeli-Palestinian war need to be addressed? What on earth was he doing all last year when he claimed he was going to produce a Middle East peace in 12 months? Doesn’t he realise why the Palestinians are in Gaza?

The truth is that many hundreds of thousands of people around the world – I wish I could say millions – want an end to this impunity, an end to phrases such as “disproportionate casualties”. Disproportionate to what? Brave Israelis also feel this way. They write about it. Long live the Israeli newspaper, Haaretz. Meanwhile, the Arab, Muslim world becomes wilder with anger. And we will pay the price.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/eight-hundred-dead-palestinians-but-israel-has-impunity-9629726.html

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

You pro Palestine ppl. Lets pretend that nasty neighbor of yours threw a couple M-80s over your fence every night where your kids were playin. Ya better watch out what what you wish for. Keep talkin smack next thing ya know you'll have some livin next to ya. Ya better become a muslim or we'll behead yo a$$.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Pinocchio Liberal

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Eight hundred dead Palestinians. But Israel has impunity

Theres something very odd about our reactions to these two outrageous death tolls

375]

Impunity is the word that comes to mind. Eight hundred dead Palestinians. Eight hundred. Thats infinitely more than twice the total dead of flight MH17 over Ukraine. And if you refer only to the innocent dead ie no Hamas fighters, young sympathisers or corrupt Hamas officials, with whom the Israelis will, in due course, have to talk then the women and children and elderly who have been slaughtered in Gaza are still well over the total number of MH17 victims.

375]

And theres something very odd, isnt there, about our reactions to these two outrageous death tolls. In Gaza, we plead for a ceasefire but let them bury their dead in the sweltering slums of Gaza and cannot even open a humanitarian route for the wounded. For the passengers on MH17, we demand immediately proper burial and care for the relatives of the dead. We curse those who left bodies lying in the fields of eastern Ukraine as many bodies have been lying, for a shorter time, perhaps, but under an equally oven-like sky, in Gaza.

Because and this has been creeping up on me for years we dont care so much about the Palestinians, do we? We care neither about Israeli culpability, which is far greater because of the larger number of civilians the Israeli army have killed. Nor, for that matter, Hamass capability. Of course, God forbid that the figures should have been the other way round. If 800 Israelis had died and only 35 Palestinians, I think I know our reaction.

We would call it rightly a slaughter, an atrocity, a crime for which the killers must be made accountable. Yes, Hamas should be made accountable, too. But why is it that the only criminals we are searching for today are the men who fired one perhaps two missiles at an airliner over Ukraine? If Israels dead equalled those of the Palestinians and let me repeat, thank heavens this is not the case I suspect that the Americans would be offering all military support to an Israel endangered by Iranian-backed terrorists. We would be demanding that Hamas hand over the monsters who fired rockets at Israel and who are, by the way, trying to hit aircraft at Tel Avivs Ben Gurion airport. But we are not doing this. Because those who have died are mostly Palestinians.

More questions. Whats the limit for Palestinian deaths before we have a ceasefire? Eight hundred? Or 8,000? Could we have a scorecard? The exchange rate for dead? Or would we just wait until our gorge rises at the blood and say enough even for Israels war, enough is enough. Its not as if we have not been through all this before.

From the massacre of Arab villagers by Israels new army in 1948, as it is set down by Israeli historians, to the Sabra and Shatila massacre, when Lebanese Christian allies of Israel murdered up to 1,700 people in 1982 while Israeli troops watched; from the Qana massacre of Lebanese Arabs at the UN base yes, the UN again in 1996, to another, smaller terrible killing at Qana (again) 10 years later. And so to the mass killing of civilians in the 2008-9 Gaza war. And after Sabra and Shatila, there were inquiries, and after Qana there was an inquiry and after Gaza in 2008-9, there was an inquiry and dont we remember the weight of it, somewhat lightened of course when Judge Goldstone did his best to disown it, when according to my Israeli friends he came under intense personal pressure.

In other words, we have been here before. The claim that only terrorists are to blame for those whom Hamas kills and only terrorists are to blame for those whom Israel kills (Hamas terrorists, of course). And the constant claim, repeated over and over and over, that Israel has the highest standards of any army in the world and would never hurt civilians. I recall here the 17,500 dead of Israels 1982 invasion of Lebanon, most of whom were civilians. Have we forgotten all this?

And apart from impunity, the word stupidity comes to mind. I will forget here the corrupt Arabs and the killers of Isis and the wholesale mass murders of Iraq and Syria. Perhaps their indifference to Palestine is to be expected. They do not claim to represent our values. But what do we make of John Kerry, Obamas Secretary of State, who told us last week that the underlying issues of the Israeli-Palestinian war need to be addressed? What on earth was he doing all last year when he claimed he was going to produce a Middle East peace in 12 months? Doesnt he realise why the Palestinians are in Gaza?

The truth is that many hundreds of thousands of people around the world I wish I could say millions want an end to this impunity, an end to phrases such as disproportionate casualties. Disproportionate to what? Brave Israelis also feel this way. They write about it. Long live the Israeli newspaper, Haaretz. Meanwhile, the Arab, Muslim world becomes wilder with anger. And we will pay the price.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/eight-hundred-dead-palestinians-but-israel-has-impunity-9629726.html

Totally agree.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Eight hundred dead Palestinians. But Israel has impunity

There’s something very odd about our reactions to these two outrageous death tolls

Impunity is the word that comes to mind. Eight hundred dead Palestinians. Eight hundred. That’s infinitely more than twice the total dead of flight MH17 over Ukraine. And if you refer only to the “innocent” dead – ie no Hamas fighters, young sympathisers or corrupt Hamas officials, with whom the Israelis will, in due course, have to talk – then the women and children and elderly who have been slaughtered in Gaza are still well over the total number of MH17 victims.

And there’s something very odd, isn’t there, about our reactions to these two outrageous death tolls. In Gaza, we plead for a ceasefire but let them bury their dead in the sweltering slums of Gaza and cannot even open a humanitarian route for the wounded. For the passengers on MH17, we demand – immediately – proper burial and care for the relatives of the dead. We curse those who left bodies lying in the fields of eastern Ukraine – as many bodies have been lying, for a shorter time, perhaps, but under an equally oven-like sky, in Gaza.

Because – and this has been creeping up on me for years – we don’t care so much about the Palestinians, do we? We care neither about Israeli culpability, which is far greater because of the larger number of civilians the Israeli army have killed. Nor, for that matter, Hamas’s capability. Of course, God forbid that the figures should have been the other way round. If 800 Israelis had died and only 35 Palestinians, I think I know our reaction.

We would call it – rightly – a slaughter, an atrocity, a crime for which the killers must be made accountable. Yes, Hamas should be made accountable, too. But why is it that the only criminals we are searching for today are the men who fired one – perhaps two – missiles at an airliner over Ukraine? If Israel’s dead equalled those of the Palestinians – and let me repeat, thank heavens this is not the case – I suspect that the Americans would be offering all military support to an Israel endangered by “Iranian-backed terrorists”. We would be demanding that Hamas hand over the monsters who fired rockets at Israel and who are, by the way, trying to hit aircraft at Tel Aviv’s Ben Gurion airport. But we are not doing this. Because those who have died are mostly Palestinians.

More questions. What’s the limit for Palestinian deaths before we have a ceasefire? Eight hundred? Or 8,000? Could we have a scorecard? The exchange rate for dead? Or would we just wait until our gorge rises at the blood and say enough – even for Israel’s war, enough is enough. It’s not as if we have not been through all this before.

From the massacre of Arab villagers by Israel’s new army in 1948, as it is set down by Israeli historians, to the Sabra and Shatila massacre, when Lebanese Christian allies of Israel murdered up to 1,700 people in 1982 while Israeli troops watched; from the Qana massacre of Lebanese Arabs at the UN base – yes, the UN again – in 1996, to another, smaller terrible killing at Qana (again) 10 years later. And so to the mass killing of civilians in the 2008-9 Gaza war. And after Sabra and Shatila, there were inquiries, and after Qana there was an inquiry and after Gaza in 2008-9, there was an inquiry and don’t we remember the weight of it, somewhat lightened of course when Judge Goldstone did his best to disown it, when – according to my Israeli friends – he came under intense personal pressure.

In other words, we have been here before. The claim that only “terrorists” are to blame for those whom Hamas kills and only “terrorists” are to blame for those whom Israel kills (Hamas “terrorists”, of course). And the constant claim, repeated over and over and over, that Israel has the highest standards of any army in the world and would never hurt civilians. I recall here the 17,500 dead of Israel’s 1982 invasion of Lebanon, most of whom were civilians. Have we forgotten all this?

And apart from impunity, the word stupidity comes to mind. I will forget here the corrupt Arabs and the killers of Isis and the wholesale mass murders of Iraq and Syria. Perhaps their indifference to “Palestine” is to be expected. They do not claim to represent our values. But what do we make of John Kerry, Obama’s Secretary of State, who told us last week that the “underlying issues” of the Israeli-Palestinian war need to be addressed? What on earth was he doing all last year when he claimed he was going to produce a Middle East peace in 12 months? Doesn’t he realise why the Palestinians are in Gaza?

The truth is that many hundreds of thousands of people around the world – I wish I could say millions – want an end to this impunity, an end to phrases such as “disproportionate casualties”. Disproportionate to what? Brave Israelis also feel this way. They write about it. Long live the Israeli newspaper, Haaretz. Meanwhile, the Arab, Muslim world becomes wilder with anger. And we will pay the price.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/eight-hundred-dead-palestinians-but-israel-has-impunity-9629726.html

1. Hamas was offered Peace and rejected it

2. When you lob hundreds of rockets a day at your much stronger neighbor, from the shelter of schools, hospitals and residential neighborhoods, you know the return battery fire is going to kill civilians. These deaths are squarely on the hands of Hamas.

3. Hamas played a PR game with the lives of it's children's and this time the world saw thru it

[OriZ 3,157]

As the death toll of Operation Protective Edge rises, the deaths of children are firmly in the spotlight—and rightly so. It pains all reasonable people to hear of children dying as the consequence of war. Hamas and its supporters display gruesome pictures of dead and wounded children in order to gain sympathy for their portrait of Israel as the villain intent on killing Palestinians. In response, Israel cites the need to stop Hamas from firing thousands of rockets at its own children, who are being forced to live in bomb shelters, as well as the need to eliminate the tunnels that Hamas dug into Israel in order to carry out terror attacks against Israelis. One tunnel opening was found underneath an Israeli kindergarten.

But who built those tunnels? The answer is Hamas, of course—using some of the same children who are now trapped under fire in Gaza.

The Institute for Palestine Studies published a detailed report on Gaza’s Tunnel Phenomenon in the summer of 2012. It reported that tunnel construction in Gaza has resulted in a large number of child deaths.

“At least 160 children have been killed in the tunnels, according to Hamas officials”

The author, Nicolas Pelham, explains that Hamas uses child laborers to build their terror tunnels because, “much as in Victorian coal mines, they are prized for their nimble bodies”.

Human rights groups operating in Gaza raised concerns about child labor in the tunnels as far back as 2008. Hamas responded by saying it was “considering curbs.” Following Operation Cast Lead in 2009 Hamas softened its position and the Interior Ministry established the Tunnel Affairs Commission (TAC) which, “In response to public concern at a rising toll of tunnel casualties, particularly of child workers…issued guidelines intended to ensure safe working conditions.” No mention is made in the report of the conditions that would result for both Palestinian and Israeli children from building tunnels that would be used to launch terror attacks.

Nor does it seem that Hamas paid much subsequent attention to ensuring the safety of the child workers that it used to build the tunnels that would wind up endangering the lives of many in Gaza. On a tour of the tunnels in 2011, Pelham noted that, “nothing was done to impede the use of children in the tunnels.”

Not only are Hamas misappropriating much of the humanitarian aid supplied to Gaza—800,000 tons of cement were used to construct the terror tunnels into Israel—they are also directly exploiting and endangering Gaza’s youth in their construction and operation.

http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/180400/hamas-killed-160-palestinian-children-to-build-terror-tunnels?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Post&utm_content=Hamas+killed+160+Palestinian+children+to+build+Gaza+terror+tunnels&utm_campaign=July2014#undefined

Edited July 26, 2014 by OriZ

[Karee 4,190]

You pro Palestine ppl. Lets pretend that nasty neighbor of yours threw a couple M-80s over your fence every night where your kids were playin. Ya better watch out what what you wish for. Keep talkin smack next thing ya know you'll have some livin next to ya. Ya better become a muslim or we'll behead yo a$$.

Well maybe if you didn't build up walls around your neighbor's house that turned their property in to a prison, and prevented them from running their own affairs, they wouldn't throw M-80s into your yard.

Also, maybe taking more and more of their yard so you could move in more family members might cause some of those M-80s to be lobbed your way as well.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Karee

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Well maybe if you didn't build up walls around your neighbor's house that turned their property in to a prison, and prevented them from running their own affairs, they wouldn't throw M-80s into your yard.

Also, maybe taking more and more of their yard so you could move in more family members might cause some of those M-80s to be lobbed your way as well.

One question that has not come up, that I think is, are their women hot ?

[JIJourney 96]

Facts? LOL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzCAqXrBGtU

lol thats not a fact. it is not April. It is July lol