Being "conditional resident" not permanent?

[leopheard 2]

Hi all,

I have an I-551 showing I am a conditional permanent resident in the USA. Not received the card as yet, but still have the temporary LPR printout in my UK passport. Conditional is that we arrived just before our 2 year marriage anniversary so must get that removed before my 2 year anniversary arriving in the US.

I live in NC and have applied for a non-resident (of Commonwealth of Virginia) concealed handgun permit with Virginia. They have denied it based on the following Code of Virginia:

18.3-308.09 (10) Aliens other than an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the US are not eligible for a permit

I called them and they said their checks via USCIS systems state I am simply a "conditional resident". Looking at the USCIS website - there is no such thing! You're either an non-resident alien, or a resident alien. I think they didn't know what to do so just made it up in order to deny it.

Conditional or not, I still have lawful permanent residence in the US. I have a meeting with Infopass USCIS in a few hours to get them to clarify exactly what they have as my status. I suspect it will say CLPR but that the issue is with Virginia state police being economical with phrasing.

Any advice?

It is frustrating being denied when I know I'm right and can evidence it!

Edited July 22, 2014 by leopheard

[JohnR! 5,495]

If you've not been married to a USC for two years, your residence is conditional to you remaining married and applying for Removal of Conditions around your two-year anniversary.

In that sense your residence in the US is conditional and you;re not a permanent resident. Once you complete your two years and ROC you'll be considered a permanent resident.

It may have been a mistake in the manner the law is interpreted, because despite what is on your I-551, 'conditional' and 'permanent' should be mutually exclusive.

Your Infopass should help clarify what your situation is before the law and I'd definitely look into it.

I hope this helps. Good luck!

Edited July 22, 2014 by JohnR!

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

You are a permanent resident. There is no thing as a conditional resident. No advice for you, but you are right that there is no such thing.

Your card will say PERMANENT RESIDENT on it, will that help?

[leopheard 2]

I would disagree. My passport says 'Upon endorsement serves as temporary I-551 evidencing permanent residence for 1 year'.

I have permanent residence. It can't be changed at will. I'm either have LPR or not. In the same vein, all LPRs are conditional - the green card only lasts 10 years til it's renewed.

(Temporary is it is the paper version and still waiting the proper card in the post).

[JohnR! 5,495]

I agree with both. IMHO it all hinges on the definition of 'permanent'. I believe 'permanent' should not go with 'conditional'.

ETA: the origin of the 2-year conditional status is something that was added to the process some 20-odd years ago as a means to curb marriage fraud, so it may be that for certain purposes an alien is not considered permanent until ROC is completed. IDK...

You are a permanent resident. There is no thing as a conditional resident. No advice for you, but you are right that there is no such thing.

Your card will say PERMANENT RESIDENT on it, will that help?

I would disagree. My passport says 'Upon endorsement serves as temporary I-551 evidencing permanent residence for 1 year'.

I have permanent residence. It can't be changed at will. I'm either have LPR or not. In the same vein, all LPRs are conditional - the green card only lasts 10 years til it's renewed.

(Temporary is it is the paper version and still waiting the proper card in the post).

Edited July 22, 2014 by JohnR!

[2ndMessiah 184]

If you've not been married to a USC for two years, your residence is conditional to you remaining married and applying for Removal of Conditions around your two-year anniversary.

In that sense your residence in the US is conditional and you;re not a permanent resident. Once you complete your two years and ROC you'll be considered a permanent resident.

It may have been a mistake in the manner the law is interpreted, because despite what is on your I-551, 'conditional' and 'permanent' should be mutually exclusive.

Your Infopass should help clarify what your situation is before the law and I'd definitely look into it.

I hope this helps. Good luck!

I would disagree. Once you are issued with a Green card you are a legal permanent resident.With all the rights and responsibilities that come with it. If you received your green card through marriage of less than two years, there are conditions attached. Those conditions are that in two years you have to file ROC. A control in place to allow USCIS to re-verify that the marriage is real and not just entered into for immigration benefits.

As to gun permits etc, it comes down to individual state law. Might be worth investigating further as to why the denial.

This is probably not the best website but my understanding of what is says is correct.

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/immigration-rights-of-lawful-permanent-residents.html

Edited July 22, 2014 by 2ndMessiah

[JohnR! 5,495]

I would disagree. Once you are issued with a Green card you are a legal permanent resident.With all the rights and responsibilities that come with it. If you received your green card through marriage of less than two years, there are conditions attached. Those conditions are that in two years you have to file ROC. A control in place to allow USCIS to re-verify that the marriage is real and not just entered into for immigration benefits.

As to gun permits etc, it comes down to individual state law. Might be worth investigating further as to why the denial.

If that is the case I don't think it is correct either.

[Dave&Roza 748]

I would disagree. My passport says 'Upon endorsement serves as temporary I-551 evidencing permanent residence for 1 year'.

I have permanent residence. It can't be changed at will. I'm either have LPR or not. In the same vein, all LPRs are conditional - the green card only lasts 10 years til it's renewed.

(Temporary is it is the paper version and still waiting the proper card in the post).

The difference between the conditional LPR and the permanent resident is that your LPR STATUS expires when the conditional GC expires. That is why you must file 90 BEFORE it expires. A 10 year GC expires, but your STATUS as a LPR does not. You can file for a new GC after it expires or in the window before, but you are still a LPR. Also, the renewable method is different. For the conditional GC you complete the I-751 form, but for a 10 year GC you complete the I-90 form.

Other than that a LPR is a LPR is a LPR and one must do all those things every LPR does where holding a 2 year GC or a 10 year GC. FOr those that are observant the code on a 2 year GC is CR6 and for a 10 year GC it is IR6 (visa category of K-1) other than that the cards are identical.

OP: They may want your actually GC and not the stamp in your passport for the CCP to be issued or they may not know what they are talking about. Poor training for government employees is rampant--why do we as tax payers put up with it?

Good luck,

Dave

[leopheard 2]

You are a permanent resident. There is no thing as a conditional resident. No advice for you, but you are right that there is no such thing.

Your card will say PERMANENT RESIDENT on it, will that help?

It appears the card will not help in this instance, as they still check the USCIS system and have clung onto the word 'conditional'.

I wouldn't even say they are following the letter of the law rather than the spirit for it.

I should point out that the denial letter quotes the VA code saying I am essentially a non-resident alien. I called them and the lady changed their story sticking to the 'conditional' part. When someone changes their mind why they've said something rather than sticking to their guns - you know they're unsure of themselves.

It's frustrating that someone in their dept has denied it without actually knowing what they are talking about. I will have to appeal it through their channels and see what happens.

[Ian H. 207]

They are clearly stupid and don't know the law, this kind of stuff happens all the time especially when trying to get a social security card for a K1 spouse. You are a permanent resident, plain and simple. Your conditional status simply means that you have to remove the conditions on your green card after 2 years. You have every single right, privilege, and responsibility that any other permanent resident has, including the ability to apply for citizenship. Yes, there are cases in which the naturalization eligibility period arrives before you get your 10 year card. So they simply aren't aware that a conditional permanent resident has as much right as a non conditional permanent resident. Also, the stamp on your passport is the legal equivalent of a green card for all intents and purposes. You did the right thing by getting an info pass, maybe they can give you a letter or something. If that doesn't work, speak to the attorney general's office, the governors's office, your senator, and representative, in any order you want. If none is willing to help, feel free to take them to court as you have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms as a permanent resident regardless of your conditional status.

Edited July 22, 2014 by ianhalliwell186

[Darnell 8,478]

Hi all,

I have an I-551 showing I am a conditional permanent resident in the USA. Not received the card as yet, but still have the temporary LPR printout in my UK passport. Conditional is that we arrived just before our 2 year marriage anniversary so must get that removed before my 2 year anniversary arriving in the US.

I live in NC and have applied for a non-resident (of Commonwealth of Virginia) concealed handgun permit with Virginia. They have denied it based on the following Code of Virginia:

18.3-308.09 (10) Aliens other than an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the US are not eligible for a permit

I called them and they said their checks via USCIS systems state I am simply a "conditional resident". Looking at the USCIS website - there is no such thing! You're either an non-resident alien, or a resident alien. I think they didn't know what to do so just made it up in order to deny it.

Conditional or not, I still have lawful permanent residence in the US. I have a meeting with Infopass USCIS in a few hours to get them to clarify exactly what they have as my status. I suspect it will say CLPR but that the issue is with Virginia state police being economical with phrasing.

Any advice?

It is frustrating being denied when I know I'm right and can evidence it!

is possible the human that did the lookup on you not understand what he/she sees in the DHS SAVE database.

Hopefully the IO at the InfoPass meeting will shed some light for you.

[2ndMessiah 184]

It appears the card will not help in this instance, as they still check the USCIS system and have clung onto the word 'conditional'.

I wouldn't even say they are following the letter of the law rather than the spirit for it.

I should point out that the denial letter quotes the VA code saying I am essentially a non-resident alien. I called them and the lady changed their story sticking to the 'conditional' part. When someone changes their mind why they've said something rather than sticking to their guns - you know they're unsure of themselves.

It's frustrating that someone in their dept has denied it without actually knowing what they are talking about. I will have to appeal it through their channels and see what happens.

If you are in NC, maybe the non-resident bit is that you are a non-resident in Virginia and does not apply to your alien status.

[leopheard 2]

Points go to ianhalliwell, Dave&Roza, 2ndmessiah et al.

Federal definition of conditional resident: http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-11261/0-0-0-35941/0-0-0-35954.html#0-0-0-21551

As you guys above said, all the rights of a LPR.

As for Virginia, I am eligible for a non-resident concealed permit in the exact same way any American is in any of the 49 other states. It was a case of VSP not knowing the meaning of conditional (or not wanting to?). They could still deny the permit though for no good reason if they wanted to be difficult. I should also point out that their definition of being admitted for lawful permanent residence is word-for-word the same as the definition of an LPR admission on the USCIS website.

As for the woman at the Infopass desk. She was equally clueless. She said I didn't have permanent residence as it was only conditional. The training given to these supposed immigration advisors (she wasn't an officer I don't think) must be woeful.

Some people would pay an immigration lawwer hundreds of $$$ for this. It's all out there, just a pain to find.

[Ian H. 207]

Trust me, I hate dealing with clueless people. Everyone I know takes what someone at any government office says literally. Me, I take everything with a grain of salt. Not only that, but I argue especially when I know I'm right. Everything from the DMV, to SSA, to USCIS, etc you always get someone that doesn't know what they're talking about. If you were anyone else you would have taken their word for it and called it a day, luckily you didn't. Good luck to you, I'm also trying to get a gun permit, but I live in NY, a state with one of the toughest gun laws in the country.

Points go to ianhalliwell, Dave&Roza, 2ndmessiah et al.

Federal definition of conditional resident: http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-11261/0-0-0-35941/0-0-0-35954.html#0-0-0-21551

As you guys above said, all the rights of a LPR.

As for Virginia, I am eligible for a non-resident concealed permit in the exact same way any American is in any of the 49 other states. It was a case of VSP not knowing the meaning of conditional (or not wanting to?). They could still deny the permit though for no good reason if they wanted to be difficult. I should also point out that their definition of being admitted for lawful permanent residence is word-for-word the same as the definition of an LPR admission on the USCIS website.

As for the woman at the Infopass desk. She was equally clueless. She said I didn't have permanent residence as it was only conditional. The training given to these supposed immigration advisors (she wasn't an officer I don't think) must be woeful.

Some people would pay an immigration lawwer hundreds of $$$ for this. It's all out there, just a pain to find.

[leopheard 2]

Good luck to you, I'm also trying to get a gun permit, but I live in NY, a state with one of the toughest gun laws in the country.

Cheers bud. I know they're gradually clamping down all the time e.g. ever being on anti-depressants has now caused permits to be revoked I believe?

That's part of the reason I have applied for a purchase permit and concealment so soon - it is getting harder and harder to enjoy 2nd amendment freedoms and if you don't use a right, you wonder if they will try to further restrict/kerb it. And if they do, maybe we will get grandfather rights.

The other reason is that I will most likely be working various shifts around various parts of the city. I hope to never need to use it, but having a permit just incase isn't a bad idea.

Keep at it anyway, or perhaps see if NY recognise any out-of-state permits?