The moan and groan thread

[JODO 2]

In summery:

My mom Used my bank account while I was in Jordan to pay for car payments.

My daughter was suppose to pay my bills for me but didnt so I am behind three months.

I gave my daughter all my extra money to pay her bills.

I dont have a job yet so no money comming in but child support.

My daughter moved in with me 18, her husband and baby too. All in a three bedroom small house.

I was pregnant that is why I came back to the USA from Jordan.

I lost the baby.

My mom tried to take me to court to get custody of my children as she didnt want me to take them to Jordan.

Since she lost that, she got intouch with my bipolar ex husband and tried to get him to take me to court (he who has supervised visitations and he hasnt seen the girls in a year or so)

I have interviewd and tested for ONE job four times and have to go in tomorrow and monday for final tests and interview.

I dont have a car but I did buy my daughter a car before I left, but someone smashed out her window and she doesnt have insurance on it...

I have a 13 yr old with a attitude from hades. She is a red head so should I say more?

I have a 11 yr old who cried because she had to take pubic busses to school and she was terrified to go alone.

I have shut off notices from Electric and Gas and the phone charge to start phone service is 300.00. but you have to have a phone to get a job right?

I had the flu, then pneumonia.

I am now on antidepressants but I cant sleep from them

My best friend brought me groceries and gave me 100.00

My husbands bil died and he has to take care of his sister and her three kids on top of another divorced sister and a sister who has cerebral palsy. He is working so much

DH had a heart attack due to stress and highblood pressure.

My house needs a good cleaning and with three girls living here well four with me, it should be spotless. I cant do it all!

I have a yeast infection...sigh!

I miss my husband

But hang in there!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus Christ.. I normally don't really comment here and I certainly don't get all "churchy",but I am going to pray for you right now!

[peezey 0]

I give lots of ####### about God.

####### being the operative word.

As far as the strangeness of this goes, I have two women who publically defend and support bumpin uglies outside of marriage arguing with me about the permissibility of mentioning a sex toy on the Internet.

Talk about hypocrisy!

You can keep trying to say the question is about talking about a sex toy on the "internet" but I have never asked that question. I have asked about married women talking about sex toys with a married man who is not their husband.

I say what I mean and what I believe, a line you often use. You pronounce and announce what you think is right and wrong all over this board. There is no hypocrisy in asking how it is you rectify what you've previously said with what you've done today.

[peezey 0]

Well, at least get this straight. I told you I don't know much about translations because I and the folks I deal with read the Quran in Arabic. I gave you a couple of suggestions based on what I have been told by others, and I felt bad that I couldn't do more. So, don't try to give others the impression that I gave you a "big list". I did not. That would be a big lie.

Hilarious. Let's say you gave me zero suggestions because you didn't know of any because you had to ask around because you read the Quran in Arabic. Your answer still wasn't "You don't give a ####### about God!"

But keep trying with deflecting from the points being made.

[Bosco 1]

I give lots of ####### about God.

####### being the operative word.

As far as the strangeness of this goes, I have two women who publically defend and support bumpin uglies outside of marriage arguing with me about the permissibility of mentioning a sex toy on the Internet.

Talk about hypocrisy!

me: szsz, can you give a good recommendation on qu'ran translations?

szsz: sure....here's a big list of them

Well, at least get this straight. I told you I don't know much about translations because I and the folks I deal with read the Quran in Arabic. I gave you a couple of suggestions based on what I have been told by others, and I felt bad that I couldn't do more. So, don't try to give others the impression that I gave you a "big list". I did not. That would be a big lie.

I have publically defended and supported "bumpin uglies" outside of marriage?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I give lots of ####### about God.

####### being the operative word.

As far as the strangeness of this goes, I have two women who publically defend and support bumpin uglies outside of marriage arguing with me about the permissibility of mentioning a sex toy on the Internet.

Talk about hypocrisy!

You can keep trying to say the question is about talking about a sex toy on the "internet" but I have never asked that question. I have asked about married women talking about sex toys with a married man who is not their husband.

I say what I mean and what I believe, a line you often use. You pronounce and announce what you think is right and wrong all over this board. There is no hypocrisy in asking how it is you rectify what you've previously said with what you've done today.

You and I both pronounce what we think is right and wrong all over this board, peezey. What have I previously said that would not allow me to mention a sex toy n public? I'm not advocating fornication nor am I engaging in it. I'm not a sexual segregationist. I said God talks about sex in public, so what's wrong with it?

So far, I see nothing wrong that I've said that requires further explanation nor justification. You want me to believe you're suddenly a prude and seeking to uphold the law of God on this board. You make me laugh!

Well, at least get this straight. I told you I don't know much about translations because I and the folks I deal with read the Quran in Arabic. I gave you a couple of suggestions based on what I have been told by others, and I felt bad that I couldn't do more. So, don't try to give others the impression that I gave you a "big list". I did not. That would be a big lie.

Hilarious. Let's say you gave me zero suggestions because you didn't know of any because you had to ask around because you read the Quran in Arabic. Your answer still wasn't "You don't give a ####### about God!"

But keep trying with deflecting from the points being made.

You are an atheist. Atheists by definition don't believe in God, nor do they care what He thinks. You defined yourself, not I.

What does my answer to you about translations of the Quran have to do with this?

[peezey 0]

You and I both pronounce what we think is right and wrong all over this board, peezey. What have I previously said that would not allow me to mention a sex toy n public? I'm not advocating fornication nor am I engaging in it. I'm not a sexual segregationist. I said God talks about sex in public, so what's wrong with it?

So far, I see nothing wrong that I've said that requires further explanation nor justification. You want me to believe you're suddenly a prude and seeking to uphold the law of God on this board. You make me laugh!

Deflection again. I'm doing no such thing. I'm asking how it is the women on this board espouse one thing and do another.

You are an atheist. Atheists by definition don't believe in God, nor do they care what He thinks. You defined yourself, not I.

What does my answer to you about translations of the Quran have to do with this?

I labeled myself, I never defined myself to you.

Your answer about my questions today are relevant based on your answer in the past. I know you are purposefully being obtuse but it's not working.

[Bosco 1]

I have stated my position. I see no problem with saying one has a sex toy on the net. Your indignation is not a problem because this is a moan and groan thread, and you apparently have found something to moan and groan about.

What is the difference between masturbation hedonism and an engaged couple having sex outside of marriage hedonism? Aren't both for pleasure?

Apples and oranges. If you believe that fornication is ok, then you will see no difference.

You wrote before

Still, it is an accepted fact that hedonism is a biological imperative. Gary correctly stated, it is the same thing as human biology. Hedonism is the opposite of philosophy and the cultural developmental mode. I am arguing for the advancement of philosophy and cultural development over the base instincts that define human biology aka hedonism. It is biology that supports the consumerist, secular, hedonist imperative behind the need for instant gratification and impulsiveness that you advocate.

This is your own definition of hedonism. How does masturbation not fall into a biological imperative and instant gratification category? Apples and oranges, really?

[jordanianprincess 0]

[Sofiyya 1,687]

You and I both pronounce what we think is right and wrong all over this board, peezey. What have I previously said that would not allow me to mention a sex toy n public? I'm not advocating fornication nor am I engaging in it. I'm not a sexual segregationist. I said God talks about sex in public, so what's wrong with it?

So far, I see nothing wrong that I've said that requires further explanation nor justification. You want me to believe you're suddenly a prude and seeking to uphold the law of God on this board. You make me laugh!

Deflection again. I'm doing no such thing. I'm asking how it is the women on this board espouse one thing and do another.

The problem you have is that I haven't espoused one thing and done another.

You are an atheist. Atheists by definition don't believe in God, nor do they care what He thinks. You defined yourself, not I.

What does my answer to you about translations of the Quran have to do with this?

I labeled myself, I never defined myself to you.

Your answer about my questions today are relevant based on your answer in the past. I know you are purposefully being obtuse but it's not working.

You keep saying "obtuse" because you just don't like my answers. When you asked me for recommendations regarding translations, yu made no mention of wanting to defend Gods law and show up hypocrisies, so you got the answer you deserved.

Now, you are also getting the answer you deserved, factoring in your claim that God thinks a certain way about an act, that I am in violation of God's thought, and so you are calling me on it.

Sorry, your atheism gives you no credibility in this arena. Your disbelief defines you are nonchalant about God's law, and your lack of interest in Islam doesn't give you the wear with all to make pronouncements as to what Is or isn't Islamic.

You mention MENA, but MENA customs and Islam are not synonymous. God talks about sex in public; he directed His Prophet to lead the men and the women away from shyness on the subject. Islam is not shy about sex, although many Arabs are. I take His lead, not theirs.

Edited January 20, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[jordanianprincess 0]

Regardless of what Islam says about sex or masturbating and dildos, don't you think its disrespectful to discuss such personal things with people you don't know? Don't you think your husband or the husband of those who shared this info would be bothered by this? I don't think you need to be an Arab or Muslim to think this discussion in inappropriate.

The other thing is some of the women (not all) who have posted in this thread about their sex toys have often made comments about how modest they are and then turn around and describe their sex toys on a public forum.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I have stated my position. I see no problem with saying one has a sex toy on the net. Your indignation is not a problem because this is a moan and groan thread, and you apparently have found something to moan and groan about.

What is the difference between masturbation hedonism and an engaged couple having sex outside of marriage hedonism? Aren't both for pleasure?

Apples and oranges. If you believe that fornication is ok, then you will see no difference.

You wrote before

Still, it is an accepted fact that hedonism is a biological imperative. Gary correctly stated, it is the same thing as human biology. Hedonism is the opposite of philosophy and the cultural developmental mode. I am arguing for the advancement of philosophy and cultural development over the base instincts that define human biology aka hedonism. It is biology that supports the consumerist, secular, hedonist imperative behind the need for instant gratification and impulsiveness that you advocate.

This is your own definition of hedonism. How does masturbation not fall into a biological imperative and instant gratification category? Apples and oranges, really?

It is not my personal definition of hedonism. It is a sociological definition of hedonism.

That statement was made in the context of a discussion about pre-marital sex. The Quran forbids pre-marital sex. It doesn't say "well, it's ok if you're engaged. It does not forbid mastarbation, especially for women, for they spill no seed when doing so, and that is the debatable point for scholars about it.

Islam promotes pleasure within marriage. Some of us are married women whose partners are far away for long periods of time. If dildos prevent zina, and do not case us to seek out the pleasure of others, there is nothing impermissible about it. Seeking the pleasure of fornication is not the same. Yes. apples and oranges, really. If that law is offensive to some, take it up with God, not with me.

[peezey 0]

You mention MENA, but MENA customs and Islam are not synonymous. God talks about sex in public; he directed His Prophet to lead the men and the women away from shyness on the subject. Islam is not shy about sex, although many Arabs are. I take His lead, not theirs.

I never said they are synonymous, and in fact have suggested a number of times to move off the God topic since it only serves to give you a pulpit to insult my knowledge and deflect once again the hypocrisy of those in this thread and what's been said in the past.

So, do you want to move on to MENA now or would you still like to go round and round on the God issue?

Because I still find it hypocritical that someone would comment that honor killings and disowning is a common idea in MENA, and it was said many husbands here have at the very least agreed that it happens and have little to say about it, and so when women display behavior that would most certainly fall into the category of unacceptable in MENA terms, I am curious how this is rationalized.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Regardless of what Islam says about sex or masturbating and dildos, don't you think its disrespectful to discuss such personal things with people you don't know? Don't you think your husband or the husband of those who shared this info would be bothered by this? I don't think you need to be an Arab or Muslim to think this discussion in inappropriate.

The other thing is some of the women (not all) who have posted in this thread about their sex toys have often made comments about how modest they are and then turn around and describe their sex toys on a public forum.

I said I have a #######. MY #######, not my husband's #######. I'm a sexual being. I'm not embarrassed by that. I said nothing about my husband, as have others revealed things about their husbands that perhaps they should not have. I'm also not among those who claim to be overly modest. If others can come here and admit openly to pre-marital sex and people get mad if someone tells them that that is wrong, they have no basis upon which to complain about dildos being mentioned.

[peezey 0]

I have stated my position. I see no problem with saying one has a sex toy on the net. Your indignation is not a problem because this is a moan and groan thread, and you apparently have found something to moan and groan about.

What is the difference between masturbation hedonism and an engaged couple having sex outside of marriage hedonism? Aren't both for pleasure?

Apples and oranges. If you believe that fornication is ok, then you will see no difference.

You wrote before

Still, it is an accepted fact that hedonism is a biological imperative. Gary correctly stated, it is the same thing as human biology. Hedonism is the opposite of philosophy and the cultural developmental mode. I am arguing for the advancement of philosophy and cultural development over the base instincts that define human biology aka hedonism. It is biology that supports the consumerist, secular, hedonist imperative behind the need for instant gratification and impulsiveness that you advocate.

This is your own definition of hedonism. How does masturbation not fall into a biological imperative and instant gratification category? Apples and oranges, really?

It is not my personal definition of hedonism. It is a sociological definition of hedonism.

That statement was made in the context of a discussion about pre-marital sex. The Quran forbids pre-marital sex. It doesn't say "well, it's ok if you're engaged. It does not forbid mastarbation, especially for women, for they spill no seed when doing so, and that is the debatable point for scholars about it.

Islam promotes pleasure within marriage. Some of us are married women whose partners are far away for long periods of time. If dildos prevent zina, and do not case us to seek out the pleasure of others, there is nothing impermissible about it. Seeking the pleasure of fornication is not the same. Yes. apples and oranges, really. If that law is offensive to some, take it up with God, not with me.

So scholars' word about zina is appropriate but not the other about masturbation?

apples and oranges, or hypocrisy and hypocrisy.

And if women are waiting for their husbands and are worried about sinning by seeking the pleasure in others, well, that's another topic entirely, but certainly a very revealing statement on the importance of phsyical pleasure above waiting for one's husband.

[jordanianprincess 0]

Regardless of what Islam says about sex or masturbating and dildos, don't you think its disrespectful to discuss such personal things with people you don't know? Don't you think your husband or the husband of those who shared this info would be bothered by this? I don't think you need to be an Arab or Muslim to think this discussion in inappropriate.

The other thing is some of the women (not all) who have posted in this thread about their sex toys have often made comments about how modest they are and then turn around and describe their sex toys on a public forum.

I said I have a #######. MY #######, not my husband's #######. I'm a sexual being. I'm not embarrassed by that. I said nothing about my husband, as have others revealed things about their husbands that perhaps they should not have. I'm also not among those who claim to be overly modest. If others can come here and admit openly to pre-marital sex and people get mad if someone tells them that that is wrong, they have no basis upon which to complain about dildos being mentioned.

You don't think it would bother your husband that you are telling people about your #######? Saying you have had pre-marital sex is not nearly as personal as telling people you masturbate and what you use to do it. There is quite a differnce. If someone were to start telling sex stories of how and when it would be just as personal. But to know that someone is using the drill master 5000 every night before bed is just TMI!