Proof of Relationship for I-751

[Ryjacork 0]

Hello, my name is Paul. I'm sorry if this is in the wrong place, this is my first time posting here.

My wife and I are preparing to file our I-751 form in the next few weeks. Her resident ID expires in November, so we're going to be filing in August. Our situation has been a little strange, and I'm somewhat concerned about proving our relationship is legit. Because of some personal reasons, we only told certain close friends and family that we are married, and others just believe we are engaged. My father's side of the family in particular, we have told we are engaged and plan on marrying once I graduate college.

Since I'm a full time student and she doesn't make a lot of money, we're currently living at home with my family. We don't have a mortgage obviously, or life insurance, and we each have separate health insurance. She doesn't drive, so she isn't on my car insurance and we don't have a joint bank account. Currently she cashes her checks at work and pays most of her expenses in cash, and what we have extra is deposited in the previously existing savings account under my name. She doesn't have a phone either. We share mine which is on a family plan with my parents (I reimburse them in cash for my part).

We filed joint tax returns for the past two years, and we have plenty of proof that we share a residence (drivers license for me, learners permit, paycheck stubs, and health insurance letters for her). We have some photos of things that we've done together as well as wedding photos, but she's a bit concerned that we may not have enough. We can also get several friends and family members to write letters stating that we are married, live together, etc. We have a local marriage certificate since we were married in the US. Additionally I have itineraries of trips that we've taken, with pictures, but the receipts for the hotels are all in my name.

My main concern is that I won't be able to show more evidence of our joint finances. Would adding her to my bank account now look suspicious? Even if it doesn't, I wouldn't be able to show joint payments from the two of us for the past few years. Does anybody have any advice about what I can do? This is causing me a great deal of distress.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Ryjacork

[bronco37 16]

You should be fine if you are filing together. But, write a cover letter w/ i-751 that CLEARLY explains the situation to the adjudicator. Have your parents submit affidavits of good faith marriage on her behalf that explains clearly the situation that you two are in and also does not contradict anything that you say in the cover letter.

good luck.

[S_R 148]

USCIS gives a lot of weight to evidence of co mingling of finances. Anything else is secondary .

[Cheezees 1,514]

You should have had joint finances a long time ago. Any two people can open an account together. Yes, adding her now looks suspicious but so does having no joint accounts. Cashing checks instead of directly depositing it in a joint bank account is such a waste of money (cashing fee) and a poor indicator of the comingling of funds. This was very unwise in considering the ROC.

Living with family and not paying rent per se is not a problem. Have your relatives write a statement showing that you live with them without a lease. The same goes for the phone bill you share. Get it in writing from them.

Filing joint taxes is a great piece of evidence. However, not having much else is distressing. I would try to collect as much evidence as possible, add her to the bank account, and include an explanation/apology in the cover letter for being so unprepared. Also include all the secondary/weak evidence you can - photos, affidavits, itineraries, cards, etc. you really need to beef up your case. Honestly, I think you will get an RFE for lack of evidence. But I also hope all the written statements will have some weight and you will be approved. Good luck!

[phasesofthemoon 3]

Hi Paul,

I would suggest that you provide good written explanations for the evidence that you do not have.

Some of the good evidences that you can provide are:

*A notarized letter from your parents verifying that you have a common residence with your wife and that you are living with them.

*A copy of your and your spouse identification ID or driver licenses verifying the same address.

*Tax Transcripts for the past two years that show you married filing together with your wife.

*Notarized affidavits from people who know both of you.

*Pictures that you guys have together.

*Trips, family vacations reciepts attached to the pictures.

*Health Insurance cards ( If you and your wife don't have the same insurance and you have to explain on why you do not have the same insurance).

*Cards addressed to both of you.

*Proof that the money that you have extra is deposited in the previously existing savings account that is under your name.

*Copies of Credit Cards that you guys might have.

*Copies of Loans that you might have.

*Letter from school verifying that you are a full time student.

Edited July 20, 2014 by phasesofthemoon

[S_R 148]

Phasesofthemoon:How does getting a letter from a school help the Op with his wife's ROC?

[phasesofthemoon 3]

Phasesofthemoon:How does getting a letter from a school help the Op with his wife's ROC?

It actually does! As he said, he is in school enrolled full time and he cant do much because he doesnt have a good job yet and he is still working towards his degree (or both of them are). As a matter of fact, they dont have a house or bills together because they wont be able to pay for them just yet. But, he needs to show proof of that and the letter that "He is enrolled in school full time" - is the only proof that he can provide. I hope its clear for you!

[S_R 148]

Co mingling of finances is one criteria that easily passes the smell test. People will hardly put their finances in jeopardy. The op's wife should have been depositing her earnings in their joint account at least. They really need to pray for an understanding adjudicator.

[phasesofthemoon 3]

Co mingling of finances is one criteria that easily passes the smell test. People will hardly put their finances in jeopardy. The op's wife should have been depositing her earnings in their joint account at least. They really need to pray for an understanding adjudicator.

Well, they need to attach a letter signed by both of them that explains the situation. I would say he should attach this letter to the bank statements which show that the extra money that his wife got from the job were deposited in his account (highlighting the transactions). Even though they should have had a joint account together ...he can't do much now but give whatever he has with good explanations!

[Barkbark 0]

Hi, Paul's wife here. Sorry I tend to ramble, this post can be quite long and unorganized, that's just who I am, I am terrible at those things.:

I wanted to clarify some things my husband left out, which I think are important (and could make the case easier to understand).
First of all, he is a full time student. I am working to support us both right now, as both of us going to college would zap our savings and we'd have nothing to live off. In two years when he gets a job via his college (in the course he's studying, with "normal" pay), we will switch, and I will study then.

I am employed in his mother's restaurant. A cute diner that's been there for 50 years, that her father built himself. Everyone who goes there is a local that knew her father, knows her, and knows me. It's like a giant extended family. Any kind of rumor spreads within an hour in that place, I swear. About 30 customers whom I have served for the past 2 years with her know my financial and visa-cial situation, and ask how it's going along. They are also willing to write an affidavit - they see my husband drive me to and from work every day. My co-workers are the same thing, we even discuss spouses together and good hang-out places for couples, so they can affidavit too.

Paul's mom will write an affidavit that not only we live with her free of any expenses (we just don't have enough to survive on our own in a apartment, however nice and private and more dignified it would be), but also affidavit the fact that ever since I got approved to hold a job, I have been working in her restaurant (and if the marriage was fake, why would she let me work there, when she has other relatives and friends trying to get in, hours and wage are great, but we only need 5 staff, since we're small), and I have all my paycheck stubs since then!
As well a reason I never opened a bank account is because she cashes these checks for me (and other waitresses too) and doesn't charge us a penny. It is so conveniet to get cash on hand right away. I bring the tips and paycheck home, have Paul put the paycheck into his savings (Our saving to be exact, I know the password and everything, and could withdraw it online anytime). We buy most of our things through Amazon from the same account too. We know each other password for everything, from ebay to facebook to email, and don't have to ask each other when we buy something online - just tell each other how much we're spending so he can balance his checkbook properly.
I hate banking and have an aversion to getting an account or doing anything bank-like since in my country banks charge ridiculous fees and mis-handled my mother's savings and never reimbursed her. Also my parents did a lot of paperwork for me so I am kinda sheltered and spoiled when it comes to this.

I also want to ask if this will influence the case, as it did in the previous ones - My parents both worked for the Ministry of the Foreign Affairs (now retired), and I have traveled with them from embasy to embasy, staying in US for almost 5 years as a teen, going to US school while they worked, and this experience made the paperwork and waiting time a LOT quicker (no humiliating interviews or baggage searching when Paul was my boyfriend without a special visa, nor limit to how long I could visit him and how often), since this privilege listed me as an A2 on my paperwork (meaning my family was a rank under very important politicians and ambassadors, who are listed as A1s, and being regarded with a lot more respect than "commoners" at interviews at American Embassy when getting approved). I wonder if this will make me look better to the USCIS again or if I'm getting the same treatment as a dirt-poor illegal from a border this time.

The reason we don't have joint lease/mortgage/insurance, is, like I said, we are financially tight to be able to afford these (for example, adding me to his car would raise his car insurance by a LOT of money, and we CANNOT afford it right now). Same for health insurance. He is covered by his dad's (doesn't cover me though), so I am waiting to be put on Masshealth since my pay is low. (got temporary coverage from health connector).

The reason his dad doesn't know we're married: A) his parents divorced long time ago on very bad terms, don't live together, Husband had a bad relationship with him for a very long time, doesn't trust him and is hesitant to include him into his life for what he did to Paul's mother. We did not even have the father in the wedding ceremony. This also makes it tricky to tell him now, as it could hurt his feelings and even further alienate him from his ex-family.

Lastly, the big reason we are so woefully unprepared: We are young and stupid and misinformed. We have believed that getting my conditional greencard was the last step - since no one told us anything and we haven't looked online until last minute to see what the heck we're supposed to do, we blisfully thought that all I had to do was show up at the USCIS office where I got my card last time, pay another 70 bucks and get it updated with no hassle or interview.
You all can imagine how petrified we were when I googled this is a very serious procedure, and now we're paying for it. I cried so much at home and at work after this, and am really mad at myself for not researching earlier, instead of last minute check uo.
BUT!!! Even if we knew all this in advance, the only thing we would be able to do would be the joint savings/checking account, joint credit/debit card. The joint insurance, mortgage, lease, car, cell phone we would not be able to afford due to the reasons I listed above, or, like I said, Paul's mother already pays and doesn't want us to pay her back for those services, knowing how hard we struggle towards our future. It's already hard deciding whether we can afford a vacation or a simple trip to the beach for a few days.

I do get upset by our financial situation sometimes, but we're in a transitional period right now and it will all be a lot better when Paul gets the job he's working towards to as a paralegal, and then hitting it off as a lawyer later on in life. I fully trust him and support him on this, and he is doing a GREAT job reaching his goal.

I'm going to elaborate on the reason money is so tight right now, is that we had to pay a lot of fees (USCIS is a vampire), and a lawyer for all this (since we are horrible in paperwork (as evident in this case) in the years prior to this (k1, adjustment of status) and the business has slowly declined over the 4 years we've been together and filing, to the point even the mother, who was better off, also feels it strongly in 2014. Not to mention the plane tickets to visit each other. Ugh. We've lost a LOT of money getting together but we don't regret a penny and will slowly build up our future again. I also want to be independent and not bother my parents for any thing since they did a lot of running at both European and US embassies, helping me get all the documents and advice from their friends and co-workers that I needed at that time, while I worked two jobs back then in my country to cover all those fees.
Thanks for reading, Noelle.
P.S. I want to hear from all of you, what is our chance of "beating" the USCIS, if we explain the case with all the right paperwork? We have already hired our old and trusted lawyer that smoothly guided us through the previous processes, but I want to hear the opinion of people who went through the same experience on this woefully unprepared as we did.

Edited July 22, 2014 by z55177

[S_R 148]

...if I'm getting the same treatment as a dirt-poor illegal from a border this time." I would only suggest that you DO NOT be the one to write the cover letter to explain your case because clearly your choice of words may do more harm. If your husband adds you to his existing account it doesn't alter the date the account was opened. You need to start mingling your resources. Having unrestricted access to each others facebook ,ebay and amazon accounts isn't considered primary evidence. I would also skip the part about keeping the marriage a secret from the man on whose insurance plan your husband currently depends on. Keep your lawyer close and pray for an understanding adjudicator. Wishing you guys all the best

Edited July 22, 2014 by S_R

[Barkbark 0]

...if I'm getting the same treatment as a dirt-poor illegal from a border this time." I would only suggest that you DO NOT be the one to write the cover letter to explain your case because clearly your choice of words may do more harm. If your husband adds you to his existing account it doesn't alter the date the account was opened. You need to start mingling your resources. Having unrestricted access to each others facebook ,ebay and amazon accounts isn't considered primary evidence. I would also skip the part about keeping the marriage a secret from the man on whose insurance plan your husband currently depends on. Keep your lawyer close and pray for an understanding adjudicator. Wishing you guys all the best

Ooops, that came out a lot harsher than I intended. Blame the nerves and frustration. (but to be honest, I do hold a job, pay my taxes, contribute to the community, and I am sick of being judged as an illegal nobody by too many people who pick up on my accent).

Obviously my husband will be the one writing. I'm too old-fashioned and tend to insert foot-in-mouth more often than not.

Also, the insurance, we did ask his father if the insurance would change if we got married and he called the place up.. It wouldn't. It only covers the ex-wife and son. Nobody else. Marriage wouldn't change the plan or premiums. My husband will stop receiving coverage next year anyway because it is only valid till a certain age, then he has to get his own somewhere else - maybe then we both will be on a same one.

Since Paul's father isn't a big part of his life, I think we can leave him entirely since he doesn't do anything for us and we rarely see him.

I'm hoping having tax returns and W-2s will be good enough, along with all the notarized letters providing good explanation.

Lawyer believes we can do this.

Will open a joint account this week, and hope for the best.

Worst case scenario, Paul comes to Europe with me, and we'd restart the process from the very beginning.

Edited July 22, 2014 by z55177

[Barkbark 0]

I would only suggest that you DO NOT be the one to write the cover letter to explain your case because clearly your choice of words may do more harm.

Also, obviously I have a different writing style when it comes to formal letters and informal forum posts. I don't care how I come off here since I

am merely asking for an opinion and won't rapped over the fingers for it.

Or do you not write/talk differently to your co-workers, boss, friends, family, SO?

I believe we all express ourselves differently, depending to whom we talk to, especially about a topic that causes us a great deal of distress. I haven't slept or eaten well for the past 3 days (fully preparing for deportation, because I always imagine the worst possible outcome to everything), and have only calmed down a bit since I have heard from my lawyer not too long ago.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, did not meant to, but it is a sore issue for me. People who exploits the open arms make it a lot harder and more costly for legally abidiging citizens like me. Believe me, I have a lot of international friends from embasies also, we all feel the same way. We are either given a harder time when filing for visas, or are singled out at airports for "random checks", due to our appearance. I traveled with a good friend of mine, B2 visa, Indian, Engineer. A very good reputable man. Got pulled over for almost an hour at the airport, due to his looks. Not even an apology.

[phasesofthemoon 3]

Ooops, that came out a lot harsher than I intended. Blame the nerves and frustration. (but to be honest, I do hold a job, pay my taxes, contribute to the community, and I am sick of being judged as an illegal nobody by too many people who pick up on my accent).

Obviously my husband will be the one writing. I'm too old-fashioned and tend to insert foot-in-mouth more often than not.

Also, the insurance, we did ask his father if the insurance would change if we got married and he called the place up.. It wouldn't. It only covers the ex-wife and son. Nobody else. Marriage wouldn't change the plan or premiums. My husband will stop receiving coverage next year anyway because it is only valid till a certain age, then he has to get his own somewhere else - maybe then we both will be on a same one.

Since Paul's father isn't a big part of his life, I think we can leave him entirely since he doesn't do anything for us and we rarely see him.

I'm hoping having tax returns and W-2s will be good enough, along with all the notarized letters providing good explanation.

Lawyer believes we can do this.

Will open a joint account this week, and hope for the best.

Worst case scenario, Paul comes to Europe with me, and we'd restart the process from the very beginning.

Hi Noelle,

I understand your frustration and your situation very well. Don't stress much about it because stress does not solve anything right now. Also, do not read all the posts and dont stress out since every person situation is different. As I said before for every document that they require just provide a good written explanation on why you dont have it. For example: Health Insurance --- You cannot afford it and Paul's dad pays for his insurance. (Attach a copy of his insurance card). Also, add copies of credit cards that you are going to open, jointly filed taxes (VERY IMPORTANT), pictures, affidavits from different people that know both of you, letter from the owner of the house and copies of your and Paul's mail that come to the same address. It is also very important that you explain the financial situation and the fact that your husband is enrolled in school full time and that you are going to apply to school as soon as he graduates. Attach as many documents that you guys have that show the same living address over the years.

[Barkbark 0]

Dear phasesofthemoon and everyone else: thank you for your helpful advice and well wishes, I wish I knew about this website 5 years ago. Would have helped us tremendously, easing our worries and preventing us from getting into this mess.

One more question, what are the following steps the USCIS takes when evidence is insufficient? Besides requesting more? Is there an interview for the couple, friends, family, coworkers or does it go straight to court. I honestly wish the USCIS came to us in person to see how we live and interview everyone at school and work about us...