Selective Service issue

[JimmyHou 613]

It is not true that, by itself, failure to register for Selective Service establishes a failure to demonstrate good moral character.

It is also not true that one who fails to register (not the Original Poster who has since confirmed he was indeed automaticaly registered) cannot apply for citizenship "any time soon."

There are people who are simply unaware of this requirement, and are able to demonstrate such ignorance with ease. I was, in the past, casually informed that the USCIS only considers crimes of moral turpitude (rape, murder, drug trafficking, felony theft, arms offences, etcetera) as events that would demonstrate a failure to demonstrate good moral chracter in consideration for naturalisation.

Persons with suspended drivers licences, reckeless driving records, and misdemeanour criminal RAP (Records of Arrests and Prosecutions) sheet routinely get naturalised while such offences are within their statutory periods.

I tried to make it clear that the original poster could apply earlier:

“You can still apply before then…”

“Most people wait until they have turned 31 (or 29), but there are exceptions.”

“’ If you are eager to apply for citizenship before you turn 29 or 31…’”

I said "you probably won't be able to apply any time soon"... if the original poster had failed to register, then he would have had a significant chance of being denied.

You are correct that failing to register does not mean that you have failed the “good moral character” requirement, but it raises a "good moral character" flag… I should have stated that more clearly. However, it is up to the applicant to prove that he did not knowingly fail to register. Thanks for pointing this out.

For other people facing this issue:

The relevant sections from the USCIS policy manual:

http://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartD-Chapter7.html#S-B-2

2. Failure to Register for Selective Service

USCIS will deny a naturalization application when the applicant refuses to register with Selective Service or has knowingly and willfully failed to register during the statutory period.[8] The officer may request for the applicant to submit a status information letter and registration acknowledgement card before concluding that he failed to register.

The status information letter will indicate whether a requirement to register existed. The applicant must show by a preponderance of the evidence that his failure to register was not a knowing or willful act.[9] Failure on the part of USCIS or SSS to complete the process on behalf of the applicant, however, will not constitute a willful failure to register on the part of the applicant.

The denial notice in cases where willful failure to register is established may also show that in addition to failing to register, the applicant is not well disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States. This determination depends on the applicant’s age at the time of filing the application and up until the time of the oath:

Applicants Under 26 Years of Age

The applicant is generally ineligible.

Applicants Between 26 and 31 Years of Age

The applicant may be ineligible for naturalization. USCIS will allow the applicant an opportunity to show that he did not knowingly or willfully fail to register, or that he was not required to do so.

Applicants Over 31 Years of Age

The applicant is eligible. This is the case even if the applicant knowingly and willfully failed to register because the applicant’s failure to register would be outside of the statutory period.

Edited July 16, 2014 by JimmyHou

[JimmyHou 613]

It is not true that, by itself, failure to register for Selective Service establishes a failure to demonstrate good moral character.

It is also not true that one who fails to register (not the Original Poster who has since confirmed he was indeed automaticaly registered) cannot apply for citizenship "any time soon."

There are people who are simply unaware of this requirement, and are able to demonstrate such ignorance with ease. I was, in the past, casually informed that the USCIS only considers crimes of moral turpitude (rape, murder, drug trafficking, felony theft, arms offences, etcetera) as events that would demonstrate a failure to demonstrate good moral chracter in consideration for naturalisation.

Persons with suspended drivers licences, reckeless driving records, and misdemeanour criminal RAP (Records of Arrests and Prosecutions) sheet routinely get naturalised while such offences are within their statutory periods.

You're right about the two different levels of offences... the USCIS policy manual lists "temporary bars" and "permanent bars" to citizenship. Murder, for example, is a permanent bar. I think where we disagree is whether or not failing to register for Selective Service, unknowingly or knowingly, is a temporary bar. My understanding is that it is.

[JimmyHou 613]

For anyone else who may be interested, here's a link to a recent messy Selective Service N400 denial:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/495417-application-denied-a-day-before-oath-ceremony-no-notices-received/page-2

[Hypnos 6,578]

- If you became a permanent resident after you turned 26, there's no issue and you can apply as soon as you are eligible (even if you lived in the US as a non-immigrant before you turned 26).

This isn't completely true. Someone who maintained their nonimmigrant status completely before becoming an LPR is exempt from the requirement, you are correct, but upon going out of status you are required to register with Selective Service (undocumented / out of status aliens are required to register). So if you went out of status for any period of time before your 26th birthday, failed to register, then become an LPR down the line, you would normally have to wait until you turned 31 to be able to successfully naturalise.

[JimmyHou 613]

This isn't completely true. Someone who maintained their nonimmigrant status completely before becoming an LPR is exempt from the requirement, you are correct, but upon going out of status you are required to register with Selective Service (undocumented / out of status aliens are required to register). So if you went out of status for any period of time before your 26th birthday, failed to register, then become an LPR down the line, you would normally have to wait until you turned 31 to be able to successfully naturalise.

Good catch! You're absolutely right.

[dioxide45 25]

I agree... honestly, I'm surprised more people aren't tripped up by this requirement.

And just to clarify two things that were missing from my post:

- This only applies to male applicants.

- If you became a permanent resident after you turned 26, there's no issue and you can apply as soon as you are eligible (even if you lived in the US as a non-immigrant before you turned 26).

When going through the AOS from K1 interview I recall the officer specifically mentioning to me that I wasn't required to register. My interview was literally less than two months following my 26th birthday. I would have suspected that if it was before my 26th birthday, the officer would have pointed it out and I would have registered. I double checked my dates again when filling out my N400 to make sure I didn't mess up somehow to make sure I answered Part 11, question 46 correctly.

[Hypnos 6,578]

The I-485 carries a clause near the end stating that USCIS will automatically register you when you submit the form, if you are required to register.

Once you turn 26 you can no longer register.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Hypnos

[RobbieG 94]

Just to add...ALL males in the USA between the ages of 18-26 MUST register with Selective Service regardless of immigration status. Yes, even undocumented aliens must register.

I know the OP is an LPR but a friend of mine trying to get student financial aid discovered that even undocumented aliens must register.

[Hypnos 6,578]

Just to add...ALL males in the USA between the ages of 18-26 MUST register with Selective Service regardless of immigration status. Yes, even undocumented aliens must register.

This is not true. As discussed above, males who are in a lawful nonimmigrant status and between 18 and 26 are not required to register.

https://www.sss.gov/PDFs/WhoMustRegisterChart.pdf

[milimelo 4,568]

Kind of surprised here - no one reads the guides published by USCIS?

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Resources/B4en.pdf

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/nativedocuments/M-618.pdf - Welcome to the United States - A Guide for New Immigrants page 7, right after the taxes info.

[raven52 233]

I would think you need to be a citizen, as you cannot help, what your age is or when it comes!

[RobbieG 94]

This is not true. As discussed above, males who are in a lawful nonimmigrant status and between 18 and 26 are not required to register.

https://www.sss.gov/PDFs/WhoMustRegisterChart.pdf

You are incorrect here.

Even the link you supplied says under "Immigrants" that "undocumented" must register.

And from sss.gov:

"Yes. All undocumented immigrant males, other than those admitted on nonimmigrant visas, must register, whether or not they have a green card."

So I will state again, undocumented males in the USA according to the Selective Service, must register if they are 18-26 years old.

[JimmyHou 613]

This is not true. As discussed above, males who are in a lawful nonimmigrant status and between 18 and 26 are not required to register.

https://www.sss.gov/PDFs/WhoMustRegisterChart.pdf

You are incorrect here.

Even the link you supplied says under "Immigrants" that "undocumented" must register.

And from sss.gov:

"Yes. All undocumented immigrant males, other than those admitted on nonimmigrant visas, must register, whether or not they have a green card."

So I will state again, undocumented males in the USA according to the Selective Service, must register if they are 18-26 years old.

Hypnos is right, Robbie. He's not saying that undocumented males don't have to register. He is saying that non-immigrants in legal status don't have to register.

So, if you are between 18 and 26 and:

- a permanent resident -> you have to register

- a US citizen -> you have to register

- a undocumented immigrant -> you have to register

- a non-immigrant with legal status -> you do not have to register

If you came to the US for the first time at age 20 on an F1 then got an H1B at age 22 and a green card at age 28, then you do not have to register for selective service provided that you were always in status while on your F1 and H1B.

[fin fin 5]

Contact The Selective Service because if you came here legally as an immigrant, immigration usually automatically sign you up for selective service. My now husband came here on a K-1, I tried to submit his selective service registration online but it wouldn't let. I contacted the Selective Service and they said that immigration that already forwarded his information to them once he had gotten here.

[Boiler 46,156]

Just to add...ALL males in the USA between the ages of 18-26 MUST register with Selective Service regardless of immigration status. Yes, even undocumented aliens must register.

I know the OP is an LPR but a friend of mine trying to get student financial aid discovered that even undocumented aliens must register.

This was the bit that they were saying is untrue, you changed it later.