Israel now plans "boots on the ground", says ground attack chances "very high"

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I don't really care what Israel does. But I bet the army strategy won't actually solve anything. Anymore than our much stronger Army didn't solve anything in Iraq, Afghanistan, Mogadishu, Vietnam, Korea.............

Agreed.

Army regulars against army regulars is easy and it works.

The US could defend itself against radical Islamists by killing all Muslims in the world. Just sayin'

Cept it was not quite that simple. We used any and every means necessary to defeat Japan, including guerrillas, partisans, counter insurgency, air attack, naval attack, nuclear weapons, block cases, fire bombing and so forth and so on.

The point is we declared war and did not stop until our foot was on there throat

and nothing easy about being a grunt..

Edited July 16, 2014 by The Nature Boy

[GandD 5,966]

Cept it was not quite that simple. We used any and every means necessary to defeat Japan, including guerrillas, partisans, counter insurgency, air attack, naval attack, nuclear weapons, block cases, fire bombing and so forth and so on.

The point is we declared war and did not stop until our foot was on there throat

and nothing easy about being a grunt..

I meant now. We could easily take any regular army. Yet we remain unsuccessful with our military campaigns. How do you defeat an ideology?

[OriZ 3,157]

Yeah, I have this weird thing where I refuse to support the Israeli refusal to recognize a people, whose land it's occupying and has spent decades attempting to force people from their land in the name of peace.

Yeah, I have this weird thing where I refuse to support the Israeli refusal to recognize a people, whose land it's occupying and has spent decades attempting to force people from their land in the name of peace.

Has nothing to do with saying "gooo hamas"....I've already said many times that I do not support Israeli occupation of the WEST BANK(There is not a single Israeli in Gaza anymore in case you have not been paying attention to the news in the last few years).

Hamas is a terror organization.

Terrorizing not only Israel but its own people.

Saying Goooo Hamas is exactly the same as saying Goooo Isis or Goooo Al Qaeda.

So, I'm stand behind what I said.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I meant now. We could easily take any regular army. Yet we remain unsuccessful with our military campaigns. How do you defeat an ideology?

I got a video on that. Let me find the link

You don't. There are only two possible scenarios when dealing with that mindset.

A. You go to war, to break things and kill people. No regrets, no ROE, total unmerciful subjugation. You show any weakness and the will not respect you and it will embolden them.

That will never happen in today's world of 24/7 media, because you have to fight two wars. One to kill the enemy and the other to appease consciousness of your fellow countrymen. Both can not happen at the same time.

B. You get the hades out of their internal and regional affairs and stay out of them. If Iraq invades Iran, let them fight to the last man. etc etc.

[Boiler 46,086]

Iran vs Iraq War

Happy days, now if that had just continued....

[Karee 4,191]

Yeah, I have this weird thing where I refuse to support the Israeli refusal to recognize a people, whose land it's occupying and has spent decades attempting to force people from their land in the name of peace.

I don't advocate Hamas randomly firing rockets in to civilian areas. That said, I think the Israeli govt. is actually loving this. It gives them an excuse to steal more land in the west bank because most people (Americans especially) are too stupid to realize the difference between Gaza and the west bank.

Israel should either get out of the west bank entirely, or annex it and make all of it's inhabitants Israeli citizens with the right to vote. Neither one of those will ever happen because Israel's uncle sam will continue to support them in whatever they do.

[Boiler 46,086]

Pretty sure they are firing those rockets as accurately as they can.

Probably a QC issue.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Boiler

[Hotter Otter 1,211]

Hamas is pretty f***** now because it ran Gaza really badly and p***ed the people off so it lobs rockets at Israel in the hope of gaining more support, guns, money for it's cause from the rest of the Arab world. Problem is it lost it's friend in Egypt the Muslim Brotherhood and the rest of the Arab world, like Israel is more concerned about Iran and the Isis situation in Iraq, Syria. So the people who suffer are the ordinary Gazans although I do think Israel has a right to react to the provocation. Every American would be calling for action if Mexico started sending rockets instead of undocumented illegals. 70% of the Israeli population can be reached by Hamas rockets.

[Boiler 46,086]

That would depend on how old the rockets are.

[OriZ 3,157]

I don't advocate Hamas randomly firing rockets in to civilian areas. That said, I think the Israeli govt. is actually loving this. It gives them an excuse to steal more land in the west bank because most people (Americans especially) are too stupid to realize the difference between Gaza and the west bank.

Israel should either get out of the west bank entirely, or annex it and make all of it's inhabitants Israeli citizens with the right to vote. Neither one of those will ever happen because Israel's uncle sam will continue to support them in whatever they do.

I actually believe it will happen eventually. It will take many more years though. Trust between both sides will have to be rebuilt first. It's important to remember Israel withdrew out of Gaza unilaterally, The Gazans promised they would turn it into Singapore of the Middle East, Israel gave Abbas the keys but instead Hamas took over and built a fortress of terror, used whatever money they have on an arsenal of weapons instead of helping their people, and turned it against Israel. Any other withdrawal will never be unilateral. It will have to be bilateral, in an agreement with international third party guarantors(like the US, EU, Jordan etc). When if the guarantors agree that one side broke the agreement the other would be allowed to kick its ###. The people are ready but NEITHER leadership is.

[Karee 4,191]

I actually believe it will happen eventually. It will take many more years though. Trust between both sides will have to be rebuilt first. It's important to remember Israel withdrew out of Gaza unilaterally, The Gazans promised they would turn it into Singapore of the Middle East, Israel gave Abbas the keys but instead Hamas took over and built a fortress of terror, used whatever money they have on an arsenal of weapons instead of helping their people, and turned it against Israel. Any other withdrawal will never be unilateral. It will have to be bilateral, in an agreement with international third party guarantors(like the US, EU, Jordan etc). When if the guarantors agree that one side broke the agreement the other would be allowed to kick its ###. The people are ready but NEITHER leadership is.

Israel's constant building of settlements in the west bank pretty much guarantees that there will never be any kind of Palestinian state there. I mean they built a big wall right through the middle of the west bank. If they REALLY supported any kind of future Palestinian state in the west bank, then they would've built that wall along the 1967 border. I don't recall seeing any rockets coming out of the west bank in recent times. It sort of sends the message that even if your peaceful with Israel, that they're gonna steal your land for settlements anyway, so why not put up some kind of fight, no matter how futile it may be.

Israel setup Fatah to fail in Gaza. They basically blockaded the place. Withheld all the customs duties etc etc.

I find the whole thing very Ironic. Israel was a country that rose out of the ashes of the holocaust, yet didn't seem to learn any lessons from it. They've basically used it as an excuse to oppress other people.

All of the above goes on with full support of the U.S. government despite what they say publicly.

[OriZ 3,157]

Israel's constant building of settlements in the west bank pretty much guarantees that there will never be any kind of Palestinian state there. I mean they built a big wall right through the middle of the west bank. If they REALLY supported any kind of future Palestinian state in the west bank, then they would've built that wall along the 1967 border. I don't recall seeing any rockets coming out of the west bank in recent times. It sort of sends the message that even if your peaceful with Israel, that they're gonna steal your land for settlements anyway, so why not put up some kind of fight, no matter how futile it may be.

Israel setup Fatah to fail in Gaza. They basically blockaded the place. Withheld all the customs duties etc etc.

I find the whole thing very Ironic. Israel was a country that rose out of the ashes of the holocaust, yet didn't seem to learn any lessons from it. They've basically used it as an excuse to oppress other people.

All of the above goes on with full support of the U.S. government despite what they say publicly.

I think you have it backwards. There are no rockets coming out of the west bank DUE to Israel's operations in the area and the security cooperation with Abbas. While there were Israeli forces on the ground in Gaza there also weren't any rockets being fired. What allowed Hamas to build that Arsenal, and their tunnels(http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4545029,00.html) was Israel's withdrawal and Israel can not allow the same thing to happen in the west bank. If you will, that was sort of an "experiment" to see how a future deal with the west bank would have to look. And, well, the Palestinians failed miserably. Without Israel - Hamas took over from Abbas' Palestinian Authority and created a fortress of terror. The only reason they have not been able to do tha in the west bank yet is Israel.

The wall was not build for over 30 years, in order to not create facts on the ground. The straw that broke the camels back was the terror attacks in the early 2000's, that's when Israel decided to build it for self defense only. Walls can be taken down. There is no reason to suffer terror attacks only because you are waiting to see what the final border will be like they did for over 30 years.

Settlements are a mistake, I've always thought that.

[Karee 4,191]

I think you have it backwards. There are no rockets coming out of the west bank DUE to Israel's operations in the area and the security cooperation with Abbas. While there were Israeli forces on the ground in Gaza there also weren't any rockets being fired. What allowed Hamas to build that Arsenal, and their tunnels(http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4545029,00.html) was Israel's withdrawal and Israel can not allow the same thing to happen in the west bank. If you will, that was sort of an "experiment" to see how a future deal with the west bank would have to look. And, well, the Palestinians failed miserably. Without Israel - Hamas took over from Abbas' Palestinian Authority and created a fortress of terror. The only reason they have not been able to do tha in the west bank yet is Israel.

The wall was not build for over 30 years, in order to not create facts on the ground. The straw that broke the camels back was the terror attacks in the early 2000's, that's when Israel decided to build it for self defense only. Walls can be taken down. There is no reason to suffer terror attacks only because you are waiting to see what the final border will be like they did for over 30 years.

Settlements are a mistake, I've always thought that.

I think it's good that Abbas and Israel cooperate on security matters. What was the reward for that cooperation? A wall built right through the middle of the west bank. That's the message that was sent loud and clear. I have no problem with the wall itself, just the location of it. If it was strictly for security, then why not build it on the 1967 border? I think there's a much more sinister reason for that wall and it has nothing to do with security. It has to do with the acquisition of land under the guise of "security"

[OriZ 3,157]

It was built where it was build because you can't leave the settlers hostage and within the wall. Like I said, I don't support the settlements. I think when you occupy land in a war, even if that war was forced upon you you have three options: You either give it back which is a bad idea without an agreement, or you keep military presence in it till such agreement, or you build settlements in it and make everyone equal citizens, I have no qualms with that point of view nor can I find an excuse that would justify settlements without annexation. However, being they are there, I'm just explaining the reasoning for the wall being where it is. Abbas does not need to be rewarded, the security cooperation is in his own best interests which is why he is doing it. When he did not have Israel in Gaza anymore he lost Gaza to Hamas. He does not want to lose the west bank to Hamas as well.

Like I said Gaza needs to set an example for how any future agreement would look like. If after the operation is done there is calm in that front, and Hamas actually starts investing money in its own people instead of rockets and tunnels, it will make it much easier for Israel to withdraw out of the west bank in the future. Until then, Israel should at the very least have the right to keep a military presence until it is guaranteed that what happened in Gaza after the withdrawal will not repeat itself in the west bank.

[lostinblue 1,989]

Is the wall functioning as it was intended ? To bring security to the area. ... To keep out invaders and terrorist who want to do the nation harm?