Finally am forced to admit being scammed

[Boiler 45,927]

It will be interesting to see, she may turn out to be not that clueless.

[SingleDad2usc 71]

We'll know soon enough, if OP obliges

[Villanelle 4,122]

A very unusual one for a topic "being scammed".

People name their topics whatever they choose. Sometimes its not so appropriate. Or it seems not so appropriate to to forum but to the poster its right on the mark. We all at VJ see "being scammed" and our minds go to GC fraud. That its all about the benefits benefits benefits when the word scam comes up.

Sometimes we are worse the IOs/USCIS, If you cant prove the scam or intent for benefits then all of a sudden its OMG you have no basis to accuse the immigrant of fraud or post as a 'victim of fraud' while you call them a scammer. But just like how physical and emotional abuse are different (one leave no visible evidence to photograph) Someone like the OP can come on and say I am a victim of a scam or fraud. I was emotionally hurt. Led on to believe one thing. Had the wool pulled over my eyes from my POV. I feel slighted and scammed. I feel like I was used and am a victim.

So yes Objectivity is paramount. This is his thread from his POV.

So there is nothing to learn about avoiding her attempted scamming "ways". There is also not much to advise OP, as it turns out.

3. So, unless this picture is suddenly changed again this week - what's there? There is no lesson in totally irrational behavior

Depends how you look at it. His thread his POV. Sure it does seem he wasnt here looking for too much advice (as he had/has a lawyer) but more just acknowledgment of his pain, connections with others, sympathy etc. A broken 'mail order bride' so to speak is a awkward and private matter- so yeah ironically you would go to the internet to seek others in the same boat for support and not your IRL brother or friend who wouldnt get why you married a chick like that in the first place.

The lesson in how to avoid something like this is the same lesson on every single broken heart thread on this forum. Get to know the person before taking steps forward whether its the K1 or the Cr1. There is no time limit on how long it takes., Some have been married for a year and a half but only spent 2 physical weeks together and spoken around 2 months time due to schedules. And then surprise it didnt work out. Others live inseparable for 8 consecutive months. Sometimes that doesnt work out either but you cant say it was because you didnt know each other.

Were they irrational? I dont know. Obviously something was crossed communication wise as according to him she agreed to birth control prior to coming and then said huh you expect us to have sex? So two people can appear to be behaving irrationally to each other if they are operating under what they each perceived as a different conversation.

[palu 23]

As of today, she is willing to sign the annulment but wants to stay for green card. Every day I hear how I am mentally abusing herso I see what is coming down the road. " lot of people here have made a lot of assumptions about me,my so called "relationship", and my soon to be ex. I guess I set myself up for it by posting all this on a public forum. As I now stands, I will never ever marry anyone overseas and bring them to the US. If you do you open yourself to a world of pain.

[Boiler 45,927]

Get that annulment signed pronto, the GC will sort itself out.

[Merrytooth 5,748]

And don't ever stay under the same roof with her, in case you are being set up for domestic violence charges.

[belinda63 3,041]

As I said previously, she has contributed nothing to the marriage so she will get nothing out of it. Maybe she is of the belief that if she is an LPR she can milk you for more money but all she will get is what you agree to in the papers.

Let her go her own way, she has what she agreed to. If she has her green card that means nothing to you at this point (unless she receives means-tested benefits). Her claims of abuse are unneeded since she already will receive her green card. Wash your hands of her and move on as soon as she signs the papers.

[Avery Cates 1,141]

Posting in another Holy Trifecta thread.

[destiny64 222]

When getting a marriage annulled vs divorce, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't it mean it wipes out the marriage as if it never occurred? How can you remove conditions on your green card based on marriage if signing the annulment means there was no marriage? Not only that but she's signing it saying she married not in good faith if you read his post discussing it. So , unless there is other ways around it she pretty much is giving up her green card by agreeing to annul and sign that she married him just for the card.

[Villanelle 4,122]

Annulments are brought up a lot. Its a tricky subject. In the eyes of USCIS an annulment is treated no different then a divorce. Some people have to get an annulment because of religious reasons and not a divorce. Annulment does not ALWAYS mean fraud. I know an annulment generally means 'its like the marriage never happened' and thats true- the 'its like part'. Its pretty much like it never happened anywhere except USCIS. They are one of the gov elephants that never ever forget anything period.

But because most annulments are hard to get where divorces are easy and a popular ground for annulment is fraud on one parties side- its the go to phrase on VJ. People just dont say the complete sentence. If you get an annulment(or divorce) where theres a ruling of fraud against the immigrant then yes it will be nearly impossible for them to proceed further in the immigration process (ROC) based on the marriage.

I really feel for the OP as he in a situation he never expected to be in and now he has to make decisions he never thought hed have to make. But now you have to start thinking of it as a chess game and not just analzing your next move and whats ahead but looking at your opponents potential next move and how to defend yourself.

It can be difficult to see your spouse as the opponent. A lot of people are like he/she would never do that! Until they do and then they are devastated and caught completely off guard. There is a lot of good advice in this thread that should be taken seriously as it could come to fruition and some nonsense. Its just sorting it all out.

From her POV if she wants to keep her GC- she can not sign anything that says fraud on her part. If she does then she will be able to stay while her 2 year GC is valid but then when its time to remove conditions she will most likely be denied when she submits the annulment papers. Now people will give you varying quotes on when she must file to remove conditions. She can file as soon as the marriage is terminated or she can wait until the 90 day period before her card expires. Neither is wrong.

The only way for her to get approved with an annulment that says FRAUD on her part is to file under what we will loosely call the VAWA abuse ROC route. Where she would claim that during the marriage to you, she was abused and forced into signing things she didnt understand. Hence this fraud annulment. She could claim mental abuse and seek out a psych dr and get treatment and paperwork from him. None of that would effect you. What would effect you is if she decided to stage a physical assault pre signing. Hence the advice of never be alone with her until this is all over. You can believe it or shrug it off but there are far too many men posting threads- legitimate threads on how they were set up for false DV charges by a spouse seeking VAWA evidence for either the initial GC or ROC.

You can take the chance and say thats not my wife, but do you really know? Do you know who is feeding her information. A lot of times those feeding the information are misinformed themselves. But if you get arrested for a charges of DV, you have a whole other ball of legal trouble to untangle from.

[SingleDad2usc 71]

Palu, what's the fate of the airline ticket? Or r u just holding free reservation?

[palu 23]

Annulments are brought up a lot. Its a tricky subject. In the eyes of USCIS an annulment is treated no different then a divorce. Some people have to get an annulment because of religious reasons and not a divorce. Annulment does not ALWAYS mean fraud. I know an annulment generally means 'its like the marriage never happened' and thats true- the 'its like part'. Its pretty much like it never happened anywhere except USCIS. They are one of the gov elephants that never ever forget anything period.

But because most annulments are hard to get where divorces are easy and a popular ground for annulment is fraud on one parties side- its the go to phrase on VJ. People just dont say the complete sentence. If you get an annulment(or divorce) where theres a ruling of fraud against the immigrant then yes it will be nearly impossible for them to proceed further in the immigration process (ROC) based on the marriage.

I really feel for the OP as he in a situation he never expected to be in and now he has to make decisions he never thought hed have to make. But now you have to start thinking of it as a chess game and not just analzing your next move and whats ahead but looking at your opponents potential next move and how to defend yourself.

It can be difficult to see your spouse as the opponent. A lot of people are like he/she would never do that! Until they do and then they are devastated and caught completely off guard. There is a lot of good advice in this thread that should be taken seriously as it could come to fruition and some nonsense. Its just sorting it all out.

From her POV if she wants to keep her GC- she can not sign anything that says fraud on her part. If she does then she will be able to stay while her 2 year GC is valid but then when its time to remove conditions she will most likely be denied when she submits the annulment papers. Now people will give you varying quotes on when she must file to remove conditions. She can file as soon as the marriage is terminated or she can wait until the 90 day period before her card expires. Neither is wrong.

The only way for her to get approved with an annulment that says FRAUD on her part is to file under what we will loosely call the VAWA abuse ROC route. Where she would claim that during the marriage to you, she was abused and forced into signing things she didnt understand. Hence this fraud annulment. She could claim mental abuse and seek out a psych dr and get treatment and paperwork from him. None of that would effect you. What would effect you is if she decided to stage a physical assault pre signing. Hence the advice of never be alone with her until this is all over. You can believe it or shrug it off but there are far too many men posting threads- legitimate threads on how they were set up for false DV charges by a spouse seeking VAWA evidence for either the initial GC or ROC.

You can take the chance and say thats not my wife, but do you really know? Do you know who is feeding her information. A lot of times those feeding the information are misinformed themselves. But if you get arrested for a charges of DV, you have a whole other ball of legal trouble to untangle from.

[/quote

We will find out how it plays out tomorrow at the attorney's office. If she signs and will not leave I am bound by the AOS to supply housing,food and medical. That is all. Gone will be the cigarettes and cell phone and maybe to tv. She says she wants to stay and work. She does not drive and we do not have public transportation. I see no obligation to transport her back and forth to work. At the very least, my job is priority #1 and I have a work schedule that varies from week to week.Should she end up going the VAMA route to claim physical abuse I would think she would need some type of evidence (police report or ER report). Physiological abuse is another matter, you could smile at someone and they could be "traumatized". If they chose to go this route you are almost always automatically guilty without any due process whatsoever. And there is nothing you can do to prevent it. But this is down the road and I am taking one day at a time. Let's see how tomorrow goes.

[SingleDad2usc 71]

Is she feeling better?

[Villanelle 4,122]

We will find out how it plays out tomorrow at the attorney's office. If she signs and will not leave I am bound by the AOS to supply housing,food and medical. That is all. Gone will be the cigarettes and cell phone and maybe to tv. She says she wants to stay and work. She does not drive and we do not have public transportation. I see no obligation to transport her back and forth to work. At the very least, my job is priority #1 and I have a work schedule that varies from week to week.Should she end up going the VAMA route to claim physical abuse I would think she would need some type of evidence (police report or ER report). Physiological abuse is another matter, you could smile at someone and they could be "traumatized". If they chose to go this route you are almost always automatically guilty without any due process whatsoever. And there is nothing you can do to prevent it. But this is down the road and I am taking one day at a time. Let's see how tomorrow goes.

No no no no. Who is telling you this? You have a skewed perspective of what the 864 is and is not. There are a few threads on here about it you can search for using keywords divorce and 864 or sue and 864 I believe. It is complicated and debatable - so much to the point that some of the court rulings from jurisdiction to jurisdiction arent even consistent or some issues havent even come up in court yet because the document is so vague it has yet to have its finer points challenged. So of course anyone in this forum can jump all over anything I say and add on this and that or point out but this and that and nit pick apart my words and I really hope they dont because it will only take away from the bottom line- which is trying to explain the essence of the document to someone who clearly has no clue how it is.

The 864 is basically a contract between you and the gov where YOU (as you signed it as the sponsor- if your brother signed as the co sponsor then it would be between the gov and him) so YOU and the gov agree that if the immigrant - your wife, accepts or uses any public benefits at the beginning while shes here - YOU WILL PAY THEM (the gov) back. They give her a chance to get settled, establish herself. She needs 40 qrts of work or she can become a citizen and then shes allowed to collect benefits and no one has to pay them back just like every other American citizen. I guess the concept behind it was they didnt want 'poor' people coming over and sucking the welfare systems dry.

Now here is the tricky part. Some people read it as I must keep the immigrant over the poverty level or I am in trouble.,. Mmm in trouble with who?? The immigrant can not go and get benefits. In most states they will be denied as they dont qualify for 5 years. In the states they do qualify in before the 5 years or if they go after the 5 years and they do collect- its very very rare that the gov comes a knocking at your door seeking to collect the money they paid in benefits that you promised to pay back. Its only happened a few times (nationwide- historywide) Its not a popular thing to do. Not for politicians and its always an election year, and not fiscally for the states attempting it. The states that tried it found it cost more in collection efforts trying to collect then the money they actually laid out, because you know what- people that seek out welfare are POOR. People that bring an immigrant spouse over and then divorce and the immigrant leaves the marriage and ends up on welfare because they didnt get a sizable alimony? Its because their sponsor spouse is middle class and not the wall st executive. You cant squeeze blood from a rock and sending out collection notices to those that just dont have it over and over again, well it cost money. Spending 20 bucks to collect 10?

Of course there are people in the gov working on ways to fix this because the debt is so high and they would like the money so who knows. This is just the situation as of right now...

There is the concept of self sufficiency. Ideally the immigrant- in a situation of divorce is suppose to do every thing they can to sustain themselves over the poverty line. If someone throws you overboard a boat you dont just slowly sink and drown but you instinctively kick and thrash your arms to survive. Sure its nice if your an immigrant if you can call out to your sponsor- even if you are divorced and they will throw you a life jacket. If they dont you have to wait until the gov does (again some places 5 years or when you meet 40 qtrs or become a citizen).

Some of the courts agree with this ^ mindset some dont. Some immigrants try to use the 864 in divorce proceeding to get alimony. Some sue in federal court. There are no definitive answers.

For you because your annul/divorce paperwork seems to be done is waiting to be signed it would be more of a moral question then a what am I legally bound to do type question.

Whats troublesome is that you seem to allude that after the papers are signed you are both still going to reside in your home?? Mmm why? Because she has no where else to go and you have a soft heart? yeah...

Well you can never say my life is so difficult and I dont know why. When you get annulled or divorced typically you part ways. On a side note she couldnt claim abuse from you any more for immigration after the marriage ended but she may not know that and may try it anyway so you really dont want her physically in your home. Then there are seperate issues of what exactly are you to her. If you are not married in the eyes of the law you are strangers. If she claims assault then its no longer a domestic violence but mm Im blanking on the term but a stranger violence lol. Just a regular assualt on a woman. Much more serious. If you are actively dating then its DV. Broken up or not intimate- strangers. thats the law. Are you going to make a roommate agreement?

I just dont know. Im sure your lawyer is just a divorce lawyer but you can consult with him about some of the above but personally if I had concerns about someone being in my house that I may not be able to get out with out going through evictions- or do I need a contract, or are they going to call the cops on me one night and say I abused them or came into their room and touched them - I just wouldnt let them in to begin with. Too much headache. Since shes in though, I would be like, hey the papers are signed, you have to find a new place and help them gtfo. Use the airline ticket to get a motel for that night for her.

[Darnell 8,479]

PALU - since the green card is not yet optimized in ELIS, you still have a shot at withdrawing the affidavit of support. some folk say it's not do-able, but if I were in your shoes, I'd make the attempt.