Out of ideas on how to prove country ties for visa

[Boiler 45,966]

Personally, as a proud Brit, I think it very arrogant of the US to lay down as law that everyone in the world wants to live in the States.

How do you think UK operates when interviewing people for non immigrant visa's?

[JohnR! 5,495]

It is not law so much as a directive. The IOs at the consulates around the world must operate under the assumption that anyone seeking to enter the US is a potential immigrant. That assumption is not only based on historic immigration records but also in the manner our justice system works. It has nothing do to wiith patriotism or intangible notions, and everything to do with practicality and pragmatism.

The difference is probably that in your investigations you probably go by that pesky 'innocent until proven guilty' stuff. Tourist visas are the exact opposite, by law every applicant is guilty until they convince a complete stranger of their innocence concerning intent. And no bit of paper on Earth can do that.

Personally, as a proud Brit, I think it very arrogant of the US to lay down as law that everyone in the world wants to live in the States.

An official policy stating that they don't believe citizens of other countries could possibly be patriotic toward their own nation and never wish to leave it.

But that's just my opinion and means less than nothing in the grand scheme of things.

[sonafl 0]

I am not aware of any Consulate that specifies what paper work to bring, you are the one that said she had such paper work.

There is nothing that can definitely prove non immigrant intent, if there was there would not be 6,000,000 however many who entered legally and are now out of status.

The levels of abuse you have identified sort of answers your question.

Nobody is suggesting she should get married to obtain a US Visa, you asked what would constitute ties, spouse, children, good job were given as answers.

I was just referring to the travel.state.gov site that states to bring papers showing about job, home, relatives; even if she had all of these, the officer never requested nor gave opportunity for her to present any papers, I think this is what really irks me more so than the visa refusal.

Schengen visa is not difficult to obtain compare to B-2 visa. Many of my friends had been through the process before. Also, it is not guarantee having visa stamps from different European countries will easier get approved for B-2 visa. The wife of my up husband's former co-worker - she's from the Philippines- had been travelled a lot before applied B-2 visa and got refused twice. She also had a nice job in her home country.

It seems easier, but of course it is no guarantee of getting a US visa, at least she will get a nice vacation out of it.

The difference is probably that in your investigations you probably go by that pesky 'innocent until proven guilty' stuff. Tourist visas are the exact opposite, by law every applicant is guilty until they convince a complete stranger of their innocence concerning intent. And no bit of paper on Earth can do that.

Personally, as a proud Brit, I think it very arrogant of the US to lay down as law that everyone in the world wants to live in the States.

An official policy stating that they don't believe citizens of other countries could possibly be patriotic toward their own nation and never wish to leave it.

But that's just my opinion and means less than nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Yes, agree tourist visas are opposite and yes, my investigations are along the lines of "innocent until proven guilty". But the thing that gets me about the US visa is trying to prove you are not going to do something, and this is based off the fact of what others have done. The US gov prides itself on "not stereotyping", yet this is exactly what the US does. None of that bothers me, but the fact the officer just asked one question, and did not review any papers really bothers me.

My in-laws really did not have any desire to visit the US, let alone live (they want to move to Russia). It has taken years to even convince them to come over for a visit, and of course that idea has gone south due to the visa issue. I guess it will be yet another trip to Kyrgyzstan to visit them. Problem is, my wife has to quit her job due to the lack of vacation time offered, oh well, there will be other jobs available when we get back.

[sonafl 0]

How do you think UK operates when interviewing people for non immigrant visa's?

The UK visa my wife got (I was living in the UK at the time) took five trips within six months to Almaty to get. It was the same officer the first four times, and it was a new officer the fifth time when they approved the visa. This is why I think the whole process is arbitrary.

It is not law so much as a directive. The IOs at the consulates around the world must operate under the assumption that anyone seeking to enter the US is a potential immigrant. That assumption is not only based on historic immigration records but also in the manner our justice system works. It has nothing do to wiith patriotism or intangible notions, and everything to do with practicality and pragmatism.

Agree, that is the directive whether anyone likes it or not. The only way to change it is by convincing enough of Congress to do so. There is obviously flaws with it has the approval of visas is rather sporadic, and the millions and millions of illegal immigrants, along with the visas the 9/11 terrorists and Boston bombers got, shows the current system does not work well.

Like I said though, I am not frustrated with the visa denial, just the fact the officer did not look at any papers, so it would not have mattered what she brought as he refused to look at them. I guess I am frustrated with the visa refusal when compared to the numerous people who do get visas; not being able to have a family member visit is highly frustrating.

[Boiler 45,966]

The decision to approve or deny the application will be based on the interview and information provided

orally. However, the consular officer may ask for documentary evidence of the following:

 funds sufficient to cover all expenses while in the United States;

 a residence abroad to which you intend to return at the end of the stay in the United States. This is generally

established by evidence of family, professional, property, employment or other ties and commitments to

some country other than the United States sufficient to cause the applicant to return there at the conclusion

of his/her authorized stay.

This is the wording I am familiar with, note the use of the word may.

My assumption has been that most cases are pretty simple, yes or no, the few in the middle may need clarification.

[Boiler 45,966]

If the system is arbitrary the all you have to do is keep applying until your number comes up.

There is no limit to the number of times you can apply or how frequently.

[jan22 3,056]

It is not law so much as a directive. The IOs at the consulates around the world must operate under the assumption that anyone seeking to enter the US is a potential immigrant. That assumption is not only based on historic immigration records but also in the manner our justice system works. It has nothing do to wiith patriotism or intangible notions, and everything to do with practicality and pragmatism.

WRONG! It is most definitely law....see Section 214(b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act.

[Jawaree 718]

MacUK The Brits, CAn, aussies , kiwis & Norway thinks everyone

wanna come stay just like the USA bro...LOL

[RhettVoe 282]

Remind us all again....what papers prove intent? What papers will guarantee that the visa applicant will comply with the terms of the visa category being sought? I've never heard of such a paper....

[Jawaree 718]

Well give it time she can try again after a job,, good bank balance &

&the ability to convince CO she'll return home, it may or may not fly 7

she's free to spend her money on the application, no one can say

she should not....have a great vacation wherever the fsmily meets OP

[Eric-Pris 1,607]

Some people ask a question, don't like the answers they are given, so they keep arguing their point.

Bottom line... single women in their 20's will usually not get a tourist visa to the US from poor countries. That's just the way it is, just accept it.

There is NOTHING you can show to prove you will return:

• kids-they don't care, my wife tried to get a b-2 before we did the k-1, and was going to leave all her kids in her country--DENIED
• husband-same as above--DENIED
• job-are there no jobs in the US--DENIED
• property-quite easy to come back when you get a greencard and sell it.--DENIED
• school-plenty of school in the US--DENIED
• money in bank- they make ATM cards -- DENIED

It comes down to the IO. I think most times, the decision is made prior to the interview.

[sonafl 0]

Remind us all again....what papers prove intent? What papers will guarantee that the visa applicant will comply with the terms of the visa category being sought? I've never heard of such a paper....

I am guessing there is none, given the officer did not even ask for the papers she has.

Well give it time she can try again after a job,, good bank balance &

&the ability to convince CO she'll return home, it may or may not fly 7

she's free to spend her money on the application, no one can say

she should not....have a great vacation wherever the fsmily meets OP

About impossible to have a bank account there, crooked country will steal the money, there are no safeguards on money in the banks there. I pay for her applications and living expenses, so it is no money out of her pocket. We will probably meet in her country again this Fall.

Some people ask a question, don't like the answers they are given, so they keep arguing their point.

Bottom line... single women in their 20's will usually not get a tourist visa to the US from poor countries. That's just the way it is, just accept it.

There is NOTHING you can show to prove you will return:

• kids-they don't care, my wife tried to get a b-2 before we did the k-1, and was going to leave all her kids in her country--DENIED
• husband-same as above--DENIED
• job-are there no jobs in the US--DENIED
• property-quite easy to come back when you get a greencard and sell it.--DENIED
• school-plenty of school in the US--DENIED
• money in bank- they make ATM cards -- DENIED

It comes down to the IO. I think most times, the decision is made prior to the interview.

I am not arguing, just debating and venting my frustrations. It is highly frustrating not to be able to have a family member come and visit, especially in light of the numerous people who do obtain visas. I think it does come down to the officer, which to me shows the process is flawed if the decisions are based on the officer, and not any evidence. But we are talking about an organization who granted visas to the 9/11 terrorists among others.

[Jawaree 718]

Some people ask a question, don't like the answers they are given, so they keep arguing their point.

Bottom line... single women in their 20's will usually not get a tourist visa to the US from poor countries. That's just the way it is, just accept it.

There is NOTHING you can show to prove you will return:

• kids-they don't care, my wife tried to get a b-2 before we did the k-1, and was going to leave all her kids in her country--DENIED
• husband-same as above--DENIED
• job-are there no jobs in the US--DENIED
• property-quite easy to come back when you get a greencard and sell it.--DENIED
• school-plenty of school in the US--DENIED
• money in bank- they make ATM cards -- DENIED

It comes down to the IO. I think most times, the decision is made prior to the interview.

Ditto I've always said it the decision is almost made B4 an applicant gets to window

depending on CO a, convincing answer or something presented/accepted, may make

them go either way

[Kathryn41 3,205]

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[MacUK 983]

MacUK The Brits, CAn, aussies , kiwis & Norway thinks everyone

wanna come stay just like the USA bro...LOL

Oh I know that, us Brits are probably the most arrogant of all of them when it comes to us going abroad or people coming in.

But as far as I know the US is the only that makes it law to presume intent rather than just policy.

I've had it on one of the times when my B2 was refused where the CO was nearly in tears because the law wouldn't allow her to approve my visa because I was unable to prove beyond reasonable doubt that I would return therefore it would have been illegal for her to issue it.