Out of ideas on how to prove country ties for visa

[sonafl 0]

Greetings,

Recently my mother-in-law and sister-in-law applied for a tourist visa, they are citizens of Kyrgyzstan. My mother-in-law as approved while my sister-in-law was denied.

Just some background on my wife and I, I am a natural born US citizen and my wife has been a US citizen for five years (from Kyrgyzstan), and has resided in the US for eight years, we been married for ten years. We have both traveled to Kyrgyzstan several times over the last ten years, and wish for her mom and sister to come to the US for three months just for a visit. My wife and I both work, I work for the federal government and my wife the private sector, and are well off financially.

My mother-in-law's visa was approved, the officer just asked two questions;

1. "is your daughter who you are visiting a US citizen?" which the answer was "yes".

2. "do you work?" which the answer was "no, I am retired".

They approved the visa and said for he to come pick up her passport in a few days.

My sister-in-law, who had the interview at the same time, was denied due to not being able to establish ties to her country. She is in her 20's, single, does not work but is a student, worked before for a long time but the company closed. She lives with her mom in an apartment, but owns a house on the outside of town. She has never traveled anywhere. They asked her one question;

1. "do you work?" which she stated "no, I am a student", and she started to say more but the officer stopped her and rejected her visa request.

The officer never asked to look at any of her papers she brought with her.

My question is; what can she do to prove she intends to come back to Kyrgyzstan? The fact the officer did not ask to see any papers kind of bothers me, as it seems he was not interested in proof, or had already made up his mind before hand and no further evidence would change this. I am really at a loss at what can my sister-in-law do to show evidence she does not intend to stay in the US past the time allowed on her visa.

The entire point was to visit as a family, not just my mother-in-law. As it stands now, it seems will be making yet another trip this Fall to Kyrgyzstan due to my sister-in-law not obtaining a visa. We were also thinking of meeting in Turkey for a few weeks as well since Turkey does not require visas for Kyrgyzstan citizens. But I would really like them to come to the US for a visit (I reside in the DC area and plan on a trip to Florida).

And admittedly, it is frustrating to see the large numbers of tourists and immigrants from numerous countries in the DC area and Miami, yet cannot get my own relative approved for a visit.

Thank you

[RhettVoe 282]

thank all of the young, single women from developing countries who had used their B2s to find a husband upon arrival....she is in a demographic that has a poor track record of complying with the terms of a tourist visa...

[Boiler 45,402]

You say she has paperwork that will prove she will need to return that she was not able to submit.

What was it?

[Penguin_ie 5,993]

Has she paid for next year's university tuition yet? Proof of that may help. Also if you can get her a visa to another country, say a Schengen visa and visit Europe for a week, that can help too.

Ultimately, it is hard for a young, single woman from a developing country to get a tourist visa.

[sonafl 0]

thank all of the young, single women from developing countries who had used their B2s to find a husband upon arrival....she is in a demographic that has a poor track record of complying with the terms of a tourist visa...

Yes, I understand the issues, I wish I could send them all a thank you card for making things difficult for others. But it is still a fallacy that someone must prove they are not going to do something, ridiculous in my opinion.

You say she has paperwork that will prove she will need to return that she was not able to submit.

What was it?

She has her university papers, proof of ownership for her house and apartment. The guy did not even ask for the papers nor offer a chance for her to provide them. Not much of an investigation process in my opinion.

She does not work, but I do not see how that would prove anything, people can quit their job.

Has she paid for next year's university tuition yet? Proof of that may help. Also if you can get her a visa to another country, say a Schengen visa and visit Europe for a week, that can help too.

Ultimately, it is hard for a young, single woman from a developing country to get a tourist visa.

She cannot pay that far in advance, they will not accept the money that far in advance. She was planning on resuming studies in the Spring and being here in the US in the Fall. I will ask her though if she can explain the situation to the school and they will let her pay or at least put a deposit down.

I think getting a visa for Europe would be just as difficult, maybe not? She can travel visa free to Turkey, but do not know if that would help. Perhaps try for a Schengen visa, hate to blow money like that on non-needed travel, but I guess have to do what have to do.

[Boiler 45,402]

She has her university papers, proof of ownership for her house and apartment. The guy did not even ask for the papers nor offer a chance for her to provide them. Not much of an investigation process in my opinion.

She does not work, but I do not see how that would prove anything, people can quit their job.

How do those papers prove anything?

I agree people can quit their jobs, but somebody with a good job is not so likely to be interested in working illegally in the US.

[belinda63 3,031]

Anyone applying for a non-immigrant visa to the US is considered to have immigrant intent and it is up to the person apply to prove otherwise. She is in a demographic that is well-known for not returning at the end of the visit. Not her fault but the fault of all the other young women who did this.

About the only thing she could provide that would be good proof would be a spouse/children who were not travelling with her. Mother was approved because she is settled there and there is little reason for her to want to move to the US. Why would she leave all her friends or other family to live in a strange country? Daughter has every reason to stay in the US. Better jobs, spouse, better life.

[RhettVoe 282]

No document yet produced can prove one's intent....while you might not agree with our current laws, they have been that way since 1952, and just because you don't like them, well, that opinion won't change them...and as I mentioned before, you should really thank all of those young single women from developing countries who 'forgot' to return to their school, their job, their home, their parents, their dog, cat, camel or goat, and instead sought out the first person they could find who would marry them so they could get a green card....it is not the fault of our laws nor our COs, but rather the visa abusers.

Edited July 4, 2014 by RhettVoe

[leith@Ievgeniia 8]

Send her for a bus tour (or airplane, whatever) to Europe. Visa in passport and return stamp will make it possible to get B2. My mother-in-law got hers that way. Before that she was denied without explanation. Good luck

[Boiler 45,402]

Will make it possible?

Or may help?

[JohnR! 5,495]

Yes, I understand the issues, I wish I could send them all a thank you card for making things difficult for others. But it is still a fallacy that someone must prove they are not going to do something, ridiculous in my opinion.

She has her university papers, proof of ownership for her house and apartment. The guy did not even ask for the papers nor offer a chance for her to provide them. Not much of an investigation process in my opinion.

She does not work, but I do not see how that would prove anything, people can quit their job.

She cannot pay that far in advance, they will not accept the money that far in advance. She was planning on resuming studies in the Spring and being here in the US in the Fall. I will ask her though if she can explain the situation to the school and they will let her pay or at least put a deposit down.

I think getting a visa for Europe would be just as difficult, maybe not? She can travel visa free to Turkey, but do not know if that would help. Perhaps try for a Schengen visa, hate to blow money like that on non-needed travel, but I guess have to do what have to do.

The idea of sending her to Schengen Europe might help. It will give her no guarantees but it certainly will help when she decides to reapply for a US visa. I would definitely give it a try.

Good luck!!

[sonafl 0]

How do those papers prove anything?

I agree people can quit their jobs, but somebody with a good job is not so likely to be interested in working illegally in the US.

Ultimately, no paper can prove anything. A person can have a great job, property, family, friends, etc, and still stay on past their visa, it happens all the time obviously or there would not be an issue with it.

She brought those papers because the instructions stated to bring those papers; if the papers do not prove anything, then why do the instructions from the embassy state to bring them? The fact the officer did not even bother to look at them shows me there was no intent to grant a visa no matter what proof of ties she brought.

If she brought in even more papers, how would this do anything if the guy does not see them?

Anyone applying for a non-immigrant visa to the US is considered to have immigrant intent and it is up to the person apply to prove otherwise. She is in a demographic that is well-known for not returning at the end of the visit. Not her fault but the fault of all the other young women who did this.

About the only thing she could provide that would be good proof would be a spouse/children who were not travelling with her. Mother was approved because she is settled there and there is little reason for her to want to move to the US. Why would she leave all her friends or other family to live in a strange country? Daughter has every reason to stay in the US. Better jobs, spouse, better life.

She is not married, has no kids, and probably would be the biggest mistake ever to get married and have a kid just to get a visa, but she would never do such a thing. The mother ironically has no ties at all to the country; she owns no property, has no job, and all of her friends have already immigrated to Russia and Ukraine. But she has zero intention on ever residing in the US, she plans on moving to Russia one day. Was Ukraine but Ukraine is a mess right now and seems will be for years to come.

No document yet produced can prove one's intent....while you might not agree with our current laws, they have been that way since 1952, and just because you don't like them, well, that opinion won't change them...and as I mentioned before, you should really thank all of those young single women from developing countries who 'forgot' to return to their school, their job, their home, their parents, their dog, cat, camel or goat, and instead sought out the first person they could find who would marry them so they could get a green card....it is not the fault of our laws nor our COs, but rather the visa abusers.

I understand the laws and intent, I do work for the federal government and use to work for the State Department, so I am pretty familiar with the federal system and enforcement of laws and regulations. I am not at all laying some blame or something, just venting a little over this issue. My only issue was the officer did not bother to even look at the papers she bought or ask more than one question; I am an investigator in the federal government, and I sure as heck know this is not a proper investigation process. The whole thing seems kind of arbitrary, especially given the numerous anecdotal evidence and experience out there regarding issuing visas.

My wife is really frustrated because an acquaintance from Uzbekistan got married to a US citizen, moved here and was here for a year, and her mom and sister were granted a visa to come over to visit. Or a close family friend who is a single male in his 20's who got one of those work visas and worked in Virginia Beach for the Summer, or the numerous single, in their 20's hanging out or working in Miami and Key West. Just me venting a little.

Send her for a bus tour (or airplane, whatever) to Europe. Visa in passport and return stamp will make it possible to get B2. My mother-in-law got hers that way. Before that she was denied without explanation. Good luck

I think this is what I am going to try, hopefully can get a Schengen visa. The Schengen process seems pretty easy, my wife got two of them with zero problems before she obtained her US citizenship.

The idea of sending her to Schengen Europe might help. It will give her no guarantees but it certainly will help when she decides to reapply for a US visa. I would definitely give it a try.

Good luck!!

Yes, will try the Schengen thing, thanks for the advice and luck.

Thank you everyone.

[Boiler 45,402]

I am not aware of any Consulate that specifies what paper work to bring, you are the one that said she had such paper work.

There is nothing that can definitely prove non immigrant intent, if there was there would not be 6,000,000 however many who entered legally and are now out of status.

The levels of abuse you have identified sort of answers your question.

Nobody is suggesting she should get married to obtain a US Visa, you asked what would constitute ties, spouse, children, good job were given as answers.

[Girl from Celebes 588]

Yes, I understand the issues, I wish I could send them all a thank you card for making things difficult for others. But it is still a fallacy that someone must prove they are not going to do something, ridiculous in my opinion.

She has her university papers, proof of ownership for her house and apartment. The guy did not even ask for the papers nor offer a chance for her to provide them. Not much of an investigation process in my opinion.

She does not work, but I do not see how that would prove anything, people can quit their job.

She cannot pay that far in advance, they will not accept the money that far in advance. She was planning on resuming studies in the Spring and being here in the US in the Fall. I will ask her though if she can explain the situation to the school and they will let her pay or at least put a deposit down.

I think getting a visa for Europe would be just as difficult, maybe not? She can travel visa free to Turkey, but do not know if that would help. Perhaps try for a Schengen visa, hate to blow money like that on non-needed travel, but I guess have to do what have to do.

Schengen visa is not difficult to obtain compare to B-2 visa. Many of my friends had been through the process before. Also, it is not guarantee having visa stamps from different European countries will easier get approved for B-2 visa. The wife of my up husband's former co-worker - she's from the Philippines- had been travelled a lot before applied B-2 visa and got refused twice. She also had a nice job in her home country.

[MacUK 983]

I am an investigator in the federal government, and I sure as heck know this is not a proper investigation process.

The difference is probably that in your investigations you probably go by that pesky 'innocent until proven guilty' stuff. Tourist visas are the exact opposite, by law every applicant is guilty until they convince a complete stranger of their innocence concerning intent. And no bit of paper on Earth can do that.

Personally, as a proud Brit, I think it very arrogant of the US to lay down as law that everyone in the world wants to live in the States.

An official policy stating that they don't believe citizens of other countries could possibly be patriotic toward their own nation and never wish to leave it.

But that's just my opinion and means less than nothing in the grand scheme of things.