Spouse moving to different home but no intention of divorce

[micasa81 0]

My my, sorry if I hit a nerve. I have no intentions of starting any kind of argument with you. The tone of this paragraph makes it pretty difficult to believe that you're replying for any other reason than to just have an argument on the internet.

Yeah, you did hit a nerve. You sound surprised. Try re-reading what you wrote and ask yourself if there maaaaybe was anything about the way it was written that a person could take offence about.

I can tell you this. Your threads gotten a lot of views but not many replies. Do you know why? Hypnos laid it out in the first reply. You were intentionally vague.

Actually, Hypnos said I was being understandably vague, not intentionally so. I.e. he could understand why someone, in my situation, is reticent to divulge every last detail about my situation on a forum full of strangers. He didn't imply that I was trying to be cagey or dishonest. Hypnos' post is actually a good example of somebody expressing the opinion that there would likely be some difficulties with my application, but doing so in a non-combative tone.

Besides the fact that the terms of use of the site prevent advising how to commit fraud- the seasoned and knowledgeable members here- well wouldnt do it anyway. And you as a knowledgeable person should know the difference between a post that reads: Here is my specific situation can ya'll advise me on how the laws apply (tons would answer and offer insight) and a vague post that says please lay out the general laws as an 'FYI' because then we are all sitting here like yeah okay fella so you can tailor your situation to the law? Nope. Not helping. But moving on--

I'm not going to presume to know why people did or didn't reply, but yes, you're right, I seem to have led some people to believe that I was planning on lying. Obviously, I could have worded it more clearly. You've got nothing but my word to go on, so if you've already decided I was trying to get advice on how to pull the wool over the government's eyes, I'm probably not going to change your mind. No offense, but I don't think that getting a tongue-lashing on VJ would make me feel that I should backpedal and pretend I wasn't trying to lie, but whatever. Here was my line of thinking, and you can take it for what it's worth.

I read on the FAQ section of this site that my situation may still be viable as an AOS applicant (yes, I know you think I was just picking and choosing my info in that context as well, and if you want my explanation of how I wasn't doing that, you can skip down a few paragraphs). However, beyond that one question and response in the FAQ, there was no information that pertained to my situation. So I took that as positive, but incomplete, news for my case. What was incomplete about it? Well, for one thing, it made a clear distinction between the ramifications of legal vs. physical separation, but didn't spell out what all those ramifications were (and that's fair enough, as everyone's case differs slightly). So, all I could do was make a few reasonable assumptions. I assumed that, since legal and physical separation are adjudicated differently, the nature of individual cases of separation must be important. I assumed that the reason legal separation is a bigger deal is because if people are legally separated, they've actually gone to some effort to extricate their lives from each other. On the other hand, if they are not sharing a primary residence, but both of them have gone to the trouble to keep their names on leases and utilities in their respective residences, that actually indicates that the couple are expressly sharing things that would be more easily left unshared. Having each other's name on leases and utilities does not necessarily indicate an effort to deceive anyone, because there are real legal/financial obligations attached to having both names on these things. It's all well and good to say that doing these things is an effort to mislead, but if either person flaked out and didn't pay the rent, the reality of the other person's name being on the lease would quickly become apparent. And it would matter in a tangible way. Add to that the fact that our prior history is pretty much the polar opposite of what a sham marriage looks like, and I thought, OK, maybe this is a reasonable way to proceed. That was my process of reasoning. It may well be that not all my data or assumptions were correct, but that's quite a bit different from flat out lying. And don't misunderstand me here: I'm well past trying to solicit any agreement out of you that I was thinking about this the right way. We both agree that if USCIS doesn't see it that way, whether it makes sense or not is trivial. I'm only trying to explain that I was actually approaching the situation in good faith.

First I dont speak for Sandra. I can only say she posts here out of the goodness of her heart in her spare time which is very very little. So she doesnt have a lot of time to give in depth detailed answers to every question asked. Or go back and explain. So those that do get a bit of her knowledge (for free) should consider themselves lucky. (IMO)

And that's great. I did thank her for her reply. My tone may have sounded brusquer than I wanted it to when I replied to her. This isn't a pleasant, recreational topic for me, but nevertheless, I try to be polite when conversing on forums, and I could have been more so. But I also was pretty straightforward in my follow-up question, and nowhere did I imply that I 'deserved' an explanation from her.

Second you asked how USCIS sees it. My personal opinions dont matter, neither does yours. Sure I find it odd that some couples have one spouse living and working miles and miles away and USCIS is like yeah thats okay but thats how it is. Im not debating the system. Im just telling you thats how it is.

I wasn't claiming anywhere that those cases should be denied.

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You are still confusing the AOS intital GC process with the ROC process. Look at the article you quoted. It is found on a page titled "The Impact of Changes in Family Status on an Alien's Immigration Process Such as Divorce from, Death of, or Abuse by a USC or LPR Spouse " (sorry about the font but thats just how it copied over ) But thats not YOU in YOUR AOS situation... You cant just snip and read from articles and apply them yourself. You need to check the context of them.

You are just doing a NORMAL AOS, you have no abuse, you have no death, you have no impending divorce during ROC.

I read the entire article, title included, and there are two things about it that make me believe you actually don't know which of those scenarios apply to whom. First, the words "such as" in the title, followed by examples of things that may have an impact on the immigration process. Yes, divorce, death, etc. are specified in the title, but the words "such as" are a cue that those aren't the only situations the article covers. And if any more confirmation were needed, the portion that I quoted is directly addressing separation: a circumstance not listed in the title, but nevertheless covered in the article. So why are you saying the article doesn't apply to me when the quote directly addresses separation? Second, I don't know where you're getting that the part about separation only applies to one specific portion of the immigration process. If you go back to the main page of the article, you'll see that there are sections for different stages of the immigration process. Specifically, section D covers circumstances that arise "Prior to Removing Conditions on Permanent Residency". The portion about separation that I quoted is not in section D, where it would be if, as you claimed, it was talking only about the ROC stage. Rather, it's right on the front page, in section A: General. Since all the other sections are talking about specific phases in the immigration process, I assume the "general" section contains answers to questions that apply to all phases. Do you still think I took the quote out of context?

[As an aside, the eraser icon in the top left corner will set all wonky copy-paste formatting to rights.]

As for this "You're stating that if we're not living together, immigration doesn't consider us a family anymore. I'm stating that I've heard otherwise, and wondering what the reason is for the discrepancy. "

Im not stating that if you dont live together you are not considered a family anymore. Im simply restating what Sandra told you. Living FAR AWAY can be explained and accepted for AOS. Living close together but apart is not going to be accepted. You again say youve heard otherwise and Im saying no you havent. Not for regular AOS, for ROC maybe, for abuse cases sure. But not for normal AOS. But hey you know what? Perhaps you have heard it. Theres a lot of lawyers out there with a lot of misleading websites promising you the moon for a fee. But thats all it is. An empty promise because they get paid no matter the result and they cant and wont guarantee anything. Sandra gave you the blunt truth. Im sorry if its not what you want to hear.

No denial here, of course what she said doesn't come as good news for me. But hopefully by now, I've convinced you that I actually did read otherwise, and I read it right on this site, no less. You make a valid point that information on immigration attorney sites should be taken with a grain of salt, but because I first read it here, and then subsequently on other sites where they stated pretty much the same thing, I figured it was worth trying to actually find out if it is, indeed, true. And given some of the responses here, including yours, I'm not confident that my application will be accepted, i.e. I'm actually listening to what people are saying. I honestly don't know. That's why I asked SandraNJ if she could clarify.

For the process you are doing you need to demonstrate a bonafide marriage at the present time. Not after school is done, but right now. Thats the legal basis. If you say you live apart, then okay the next question is how far and why? You can not lie. And the truth which you revealed is that you live close but separate because you do not get along. You cant change the facts in the interview, you cant twist the facts.

I know I have to demonstrate a bona fide marriage. I'm still trying to figure out why it's stated on this site that separation does not preclude a bona fide marriage, yet I'm getting a lot of opinions that it does. So it's not really helpful to restate that I have to prove a bona fide marriage exists when the initial source of conflicting information remains re: the definition of "bona fide marriage". As I said, I'm not planning on lying, twisting facts, etc. Apart from our not sharing a primary address anymore, there are still plenty of other indicators, many of which USCIS expressly state count as evidence of a bona fide marriage. Bank accounts, shared trips, shared possessions, etc. Yes, I know, none of these matter if physical separation can, all by itself, sink my case. But, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, *I'm still trying to ascertain if that's true*.

[Boiler 46,362]

Take your Lawyer with you.

[Villanelle 4,122]

Im starting to see why one might label you as difficult and choose to move out...

There are all kinds of people in this world. Some are sweet and nice. Some are polite, some are harsh. Some will be blunt and others may even hurt your feelings a bit and feel combative. Some may grossly offend you. As an adult you need to be able to deal with it. This is not the Truman, I mean Micasa Show where everyone is a player on your world the stage and must do everything to make your life run smoothly. Youre going to run into snarky customer service reps on the phone, rude cashiers, people that swoop into your parking space when they know youve been waiting for it.

Unfortunately people have their own ####### they pay forward instead of paying niceness forward. Sure I wish the world was a better place. And its kind of why I come here and post and not the other forum. Perhaps my recent bad news effected the tone of my reply but it didnt alter the integrity of it. SO take it as a life lesson. You have a rude cashier do you still get your groceries in the end or do you huff away with nothing because they werent nice to you? Or do you demand/request an apology from them? Point out their rudeness? Hmmm... anyway...

We are going in a lot of circles so lets just put a giant period in a few things.

Read the forums a lot and you will see that Sandra rarely comes backs to a thread where shes stated her opinion/advice to explained it again or answer a follow up. She is way to busy to do that. Unless the follow up contains some new immigration info that would change her previous answer- like oh btw I forgot to mention I have a 10 yr ban or Im currently in the middle of an appeal but I filed again cause I figured it would be faster- she doesnt (rarely) come back and repeat, or say it slower or cite examples. No one else was going to answer you because like I said, you seemed a little fishy. My opinion on your level of fish smell. Its irrelevant. Im answering you arent I? If I didnt your thread would just be hanging there like hello? does anyone know? with no replies.

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And Yes everyones case is different so there is no guide for your exact situation, just general ones. But there are different types of AOS applicants.

Honey I didnt write the guides, if youd like to complain about the quality of it, or that its misleading send a message to a mod. But the title of the page you link is The Impact of Changes in Family Status on an Alien's Immigration Process Such as Divorce from, Death of, or Abuse by a USC or LPR Spouse

It then says PART A General.

the first line in it reads :The marriage-based immigration process can take at least a number of years to complete. But what if the journey is interrupted by a divorce, the untimely death of the US citizen petitioner or even abuse?

The first questions are all about divorce, the final question is

I am separated from my US citizen spouse. Is my marriage legally terminated as far as USCIS is concerned?

A: The term "separation" can mean either a physical separation, as in living apart; a "legal separation," recognized by some states where the parties agree in writing on the terms of separation that is accepted by the court; or the time-period required by some states when parties must live apart prior to becoming eligible to divorce.

As a general rule a physical or legal separation does not necessarily constitute a legal termination of the marriage for immigration purposes, even if neither party is intending to cohabitate again. Caveat: There are some situations where a legal separation is a legal termination of a marriage for immigration purposes. This occurs when extant state law automatically converts legal separations into divorce after a specific period of time. New York is an example. If you have any question as to the ramifications of separation in your state, please confer with a qualified immigration specialist.

An alien that is separated, either physically or legally, may need to perform specific requirements for immigration purposes.

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-You need to note they are talking about the process as a process not just the obtaining of the initial GC. The process includes getting the conditional GC and removing conditions.

Where you are in the process matters. You are at step one obtaining the conditional GC. To do so you need to prove the bonafide marriage. Thats all the stuff you listed like financials and photos and stuff. You have all that covered. Thats great. Whats not so great is they will want to know where you both live. Living close but not together again is a no.

You seem to have issues with lines like :

As a general rule a physical or legal separation does not necessarily constitute a legal termination of the marriage for immigration purposes, even if neither party is intending to cohabitate again.

This has nothing to do with your process/where you are/what you are doing/your situation. This is such a general sentence its ridiculous. It can do with abuse cases. (they have a time limit to file after the marriage ends) This also can apply to oddly enough to your situation IF your spouse moved FAR AWAY like Sandra said- this sentence, this exact sentence would apply. It would means you CAN live FAR AWAY (a physical separation does not mean your marriage isnt valid)

However like with everything in life there are catches, and thats a general statement in a general guide. You want the fine print on that sentence, it was provided to you. The fine print is - its OK to live miles apart if you must because of work and school and family necessity. But to be a few minutes away- no way no how.

How would you justify that? Seriously? They will not believe its not fraud and I mean fraud that you have no intent on family unity. You are not living together right now when you can be. So its kind of like well give me the GC and I promise we will reunite the family after schooling is over?

Since you already applied and it seems unlike that you will hire a lawyer at this point- again you can merge into one address. But only do that if you are legitimately going to both be physically there. If not then as Darnell said put as much as you can into both names at both places.

As truthful as it may be that your spouse feels you are a tough one to live with- well you dont want to willingly say it to them, but you cant not say it if asked. There has to be other legitimate truths though you can offer up. You mentioned roomates- is there somekind of binding lease you cant get out of, a barking dog at the new place that is disruptive to your studies, allergies? You need to come up with something legitimate because they will catch you in a lie- so bring your proof as it will be an uphill battle. But find something truthful that a reasonable person would be like yeah okay maybe I can get that, thats understandable and maybe youll have a shot. Because the officers dont tend to be understanding people, they tend to be suspicious.

So again best of luck. An attny can help but be careful what they promise.