Spouse moving to different home but no intention of divorce

[micasa81 0]

Hello all,

I read the pinned FAQ at the top of this sub-thread and saw a bit of information about how separation is viewed by USCIS, but I would like to ask for some advice re: how to handle my particular situation. Here are the details:

• My U.S. spouse and i have been married for 12 years, and lived together in Canada until 2011, when we moved to the US for me to attend school
• I'm currently at the tail end of my F-1 status
• We concurrently filed an I-130 and I-485 for my AOS; the package was sent to USCIS last week
• She recently decided that she needs to live in a separate place from me, and will be moving there in a month
• I will keep living at our current address, but will need to get a couple of roommates
• She has no desire to jeopardize the process of me receiving a Green Card, but neither will she put off this move until after I get it
• Neither of us intend to legally or practically end our marriage, and in fact we anticipate that I will quite often stay with her (weekends, etc.); in other words, this is a separation in domicile only, and even then, only partially

In light of those details, what should I be telling USCIS re: her address, my address, what our living arrangements are, etc? The options are to either tell them that only she moved, tell them we both moved, or tell them neither of us moved, all of which we could make a perfectly good case for. What are the ramifications of only her notifying them of a change of address? I don't want to make this application unnecessarily more complicated, but I definitely don't want to withhold information USCIS would deem pertinent to the evaluation of our case.

Thanks in advance.

[Hypnos 6,578]

She should file for a change of address for her I-130 as soon as her new permanent address is known.

At the interview you will be going to, they will want to have an explanation for the disparity of addresses (i.e. you living at different locations). It really isn't clear whether this is some kind of trial separation or what, since you are being (understandably) vague, so it's difficult to advise for you further.

What I will say is that the purpose of these kinds of visas / green cards is for family reunification, and to that end you must demonstrate a bona fide marital relationship. It might be difficult to do that in your case.

[Sandra G. 5,079]

If she is living far away because she needs to study or work, you have submit proof that she keeps coming home often to see you, and that you are still a couple, then you will be fine.But if she is moving out,because she decided to separate from you,then you don't have a relationship anymore to get a GC, and your AOS will be denied.

Edited June 29, 2014 by sandranj

[rlogan 2,036]

Don't lie.

[micasa81 0]

Thanks for the replies so far. I'm probably going to file a change of address along with her, given that I'm going to be living at her place nearly every weekend, keeping some of my clothes and other personal belongings there, maintaining possession of a key, etc. Basically, beyond the fact that I've already demonstrated a 12-year marriage relationship in my initial application, I'm also likely to tick all the required boxes that satisfy their requirements for having a continuing bona fide marital relationship after this change in living arrangements. As for the fact that I'm still maintaining residence at our current place, I view that as a necessity in order for me to finish my schooling, and nothing more. Without going into much detail, I have been a tough person to live with during my graduate studies. She has no intention of separating for good, but she also felt she needed her own space for the duration of my school. So in my opinion, it's very comparable to one spouse having a job that requires them to be gone all week, and they come home on weekends (which has been a pretty accurate description of grad school for me, even with us living together).

[Sandra G. 5,079]

It does not matter for immigration if you are married 30 days or 30 years,you have to prove that you still have a relationship with her to have your GC approved . It does not matter if you are keeping your belongs there or not,you have to prove the relationship as a married couple still exists.

What you are trying to do is allowed for people filing ROC,not AOS.I saw many ROC cases that the couples were separated ,then it was ok,no problem,but NOT for AOS.If you are living 100miles away because of your job or study Uscis will.accept this explanation,but living a few minutes.away? No way ,no how

[micasa81 0]

It does not matter for immigration if you are married 30 days or 30 years,you have to prove that you still have a relationship with her to have your GC approved . It does not matter if you are keeping your belongs there or not,you have to prove the relationship as a married couple still exists.

What you are trying to do is allowed for people filing ROC,not AOS.I saw many ROC cases that the couples were separated ,then it was ok,no problem,but NOT for AOS.If you are living 100miles away because of your job or study Uscis will.accept this explanation,but living a few minutes.away? No way ,no how

I think what you're trying to say is that, if someone no longer has a bona fide relationship, it doesn't matter how long they were previously married. But if you read the FAQ on this very subforum, and other articles online by immigration lawyers, it's stated that separation does not necessarily end that bona fide relationship, and that the circumstances of the separation are quite important. In my case, I'd say it is important that we've been married for a long time, and that we will have concrete evidence that we're still sharing a life together even after we are living in separate places. You seem to have a more cut-and-dried opinion about what separation means for an AOS application than other sources I've read online. Can you elaborate about why you believe it's an automatic denial if the couple does not live together?

[micasa81 0]

I think what you're trying to say is that, if someone no longer has a bona fide relationship, it doesn't matter how long they were previously married. But if you read the FAQ on this very subforum, and other articles online by immigration lawyers, it's stated that separation does not necessarily end that bona fide relationship, and that the circumstances of the separation are quite important. In my case, I'd say it is important that we've been married for a long time, and that we will have concrete evidence that we're still sharing a life together even after we are living in separate places. You seem to have a more cut-and-dried opinion about what separation means for an AOS application than other sources I've read online. Can you elaborate about why you believe it's an automatic denial if the couple does not live together?

I would also add that, having done some more reading about this, it's probably not the right thing to file change of address for both of us, but rather to be prepared to explain why we aren't sharing a principal residence anymore.

[Boiler 46,362]

Why not delay until you are back together?

[micasa81 0]

Why not delay until you are back together?

Fair question. But I can't do that, because at this point my I-20 has lapsed. My program of study has taken me longer than the I-20 originally authorized me to stay. I didn't extend the I-20 because I opted to just apply for the GC. So now, I can't go back to student status and I'm $1700-odd deep into the AOS process.

[Darnell 8,479]

if it's not a seperation due to ugly stuff,

but rather one due to other work (hers)

then I suggest she get your name on the lease and utilities at the new place,

and you make sure her name is on the lease and utilities at the current place,

then USCIS will have proof that the two of you maintained, together, 2 domiciles.

Doesn't matter the reason, as long as you show that proof, the two of you will be ok.

[Villanelle 4,122]

I think what you're trying to say is that, if someone no longer has a bona fide relationship, it doesn't matter how long they were previously married. But if you read the FAQ on this very subforum, and other articles online by immigration lawyers, it's stated that separation does not necessarily end that bona fide relationship, and that the circumstances of the separation are quite important. In my case, I'd say it is important that we've been married for a long time, and that we will have concrete evidence that we're still sharing a life together even after we are living in separate places. You seem to have a more cut-and-dried opinion about what separation means for an AOS application than other sources I've read online. Can you elaborate about why you believe it's an automatic denial if the couple does not live together?

Sandra already gave you a great answer. (and btw she is an immigration attny- a very good one at that which is why she doesnt need to elaborate and justify/debate her responses lol)

She told you if you and your spouse are living FAR AWAY from each other (for AOS) if you have a good reason like work or school it can be explained and will be OK.

If you are living not so far away- then (again for AOS) it is NOT OKAY no matter what explanation you try to give and you will probably not be approved.

Perhaps some of the articles you are reading are referencing ROC where again Sandra says living not so far away is not as big of a deal because ROC is a totally different beast then AOS. In AOS you are getting the initial GC and in ROC you are just removing the conditions. I know it sounds crazy and is illogical but thats how it is.

They want to make sure people arent just marrying for benefits and this is the system they have.

Because youve been married for 12 years you would not be getting the conditional card but the permanent card, so there will be a higher level of scrutiny on you. (since you are not coming back in 2 years to remove conditions). They have to be extra sure that the marriage is legit. Which 12 years you surely have enough proof and ALSO and this is where the problem seems to lie for you- as others have mentioned its a family unity visa. If your current intent is not to be permanently united with your spouse as a family unit in the US- then you dont need the GC. You need another school visa or a visitor visa.

Telling them I sunk a lot of money into the AOS process and now my pockets are bare and its too late for me to go back to student status because I didnt apply in time and I need to finish school- I mean I gotta finish school man... Yikes. The correct reason for a family unity GC is none of the above. Its because your family is here and you wish to be with them. (hence why you would share a residence with your spouse and not with roommates and have your wife live what a few blocks over? a town over ? because what did you say? Youre a tough person to live with? )

Oh my. What an explanation for the officer interviewing you. School is tough it makes me grumpy so I live in a dorm type setting with other guys and my wife moved down the block alone because she couldnt take it. Be prepared to walk into the trap of Oh so you are going to get back together after school is over? Yes, thats great. Denied since you arent together.

Like mentioned living close but not together- there really arent any good explanations for it. The interview can be intense with double ended questions. They can separate the two of you and if your stories dont line up- youll be denied based on that.

Best of luck on your journey.

[micasa81 0]

Sandra already gave you a great answer. (and btw she is an immigration attny- a very good one at that which is why she doesnt need to elaborate and justify/debate her responses lol)

I know she's an immigration attorney. And her answer was fine, but I don't think it's unreasonable that I ask for a bit more clarification (note: that's different than debating, it's an honest-to-God request for more information), given that I've read conflicting information from multiple equally qualified sources.

She told you if you and your spouse are living FAR AWAY from each other (for AOS) if you have a good reason like work or school it can be explained and will be OK.

If you are living not so far away- then (again for AOS) it is NOT OKAY no matter what explanation you try to give and you will probably not be approved.

Already clearly understood what SandraNJ said, thanks. However, consider my situation: I'm planning to stay in the same city as my wife once I'm done school precisely because I still intend to maintain a marriage relationship with her. If I didn't care about that, I might move somewhere else. In that case, by your interpretation, even though I was moving because I didn't care to stay near her, that would actually be a *positive indicator* of the bona fides of our marriage? Sorry, but in my books, I'm more serious about my marriage than a lot of people who put career ahead of actually living close enough to be with their spouse on a regular basis. I know that may well not be how USCIS sees it - in fact, that's the gist of what I'm asking about here - but if you're looking for some basic justification as to why I think we should still be considered married, there it is.

Perhaps some of the articles you are reading are referencing ROC where again Sandra says living not so far away is not as big of a deal because ROC is a totally different beast then AOS. In AOS you are getting the initial GC and in ROC you are just removing the conditions. I know it sounds crazy and is illogical but thats how it is.

I understand the difference between AOS and ROC, and the articles I've read are all talking about AOS. For example, here's an excerpt from an article from this very site:

Q: I am separated from my US citizen spouse. Is my marriage legally terminated as far as USCIS is concerned?

A: The term "separation" can mean either a physical separation, as in living apart; a "legal separation," recognized by some states where the parties agree in writing on the terms of separation that is accepted by the court; or the time-period required by some states when parties must live apart prior to becoming eligible to divorce.

As a general rule a physical or legal separation does not necessarily constitute a legal termination of the marriage for immigration purposes, even if neither party is intending to cohabitate again. Caveat: There are some situations where a legal separation is a legal termination of a marriage for immigration purposes. This occurs when extant state law automatically converts legal separations into divorce after a specific period of time. New York is an example. If you have any question as to the ramifications of separation in your state, please confer with a qualified immigration specialist.

An alien that is separated, either physically or legally, may need to perform specific requirements for immigration purposes.

So, as you can see, that's a completely different answer from what SandraNJ gave. Do you understand why I might have asked for a bit more clarification? I didn't start this thread just to be a smart-### or have an argument, I actually have to figure out ####### to do with my situation.

They want to make sure people arent just marrying for benefits and this is the system they have.

Because youve been married for 12 years you would not be getting the conditional card but the permanent card, so there will be a higher level of scrutiny on you. (since you are not coming back in 2 years to remove conditions). They have to be extra sure that the marriage is legit. Which 12 years you surely have enough proof and ALSO and this is where the problem seems to lie for you- as others have mentioned its a family unity visa. If your current intent is not to be permanently united with your spouse as a family unit in the US- then you dont need the GC. You need another school visa or a visitor visa.

You're begging the question here. I understand that the purpose of this AOS is for family unity. Loud and clear. You're stating that if we're not living together, immigration doesn't consider us a family anymore. I'm stating that I've heard otherwise, and wondering what the reason is for the discrepancy. You're just restating your assertion without answering my question. It's fine if you don't have any more information to offer, you can just say that you don't know why there's a discrepancy.

Telling them I sunk a lot of money into the AOS process and now my pockets are bare and its too late for me to go back to student status because I didnt apply in time and I need to finish school- I mean I gotta finish school man... Yikes. The correct reason for a family unity GC is none of the above. Its because your family is here and you wish to be with them. (hence why you would share a residence with your spouse and not with roommates and have your wife live what a few blocks over? a town over ? because what did you say? Youre a tough person to live with? )

Oh my. What an explanation for the officer interviewing you. School is tough it makes me grumpy so I live in a dorm type setting with other guys and my wife moved down the block alone because she couldnt take it. Be prepared to walk into the trap of Oh so you are going to get back together after school is over? Yes, thats great. Denied since you arent together.

I have no intention of telling them that the reason they should grant me AOS is because I've spent a lot of money on the process. I was replying to a question of why I'm not just delaying this application until we're back together. There's a difference between my own decision-making process and the actual, legal basis on which I'm attempting to justify my AOS application. The tone of this paragraph makes it pretty difficult to believe that you're replying for any other reason than to just have an argument on the internet.

Like mentioned living close but not together- there really arent any good explanations for it. The interview can be intense with double ended questions. They can separate the two of you and if your stories dont line up- youll be denied based on that.

Yes, I understand that, to you, "together" means physically residing at the same address unless you've chosen to take a job in some other city. Can you clarify why the quote above, and other legal opinions I've read online, state that USCIS doesn't seem to interpret "together" as stringently as you? Again, I'm actually seeking information here, not trying to prove anyone wrong.

Best of luck on your journey.

Hey, thanks, you too.

Edited July 6, 2014 by micasa81

[micasa81 0]

So, as you can see, that's a completely different answer from what SandraNJ gave. Do you understand why I might have asked for a bit more clarification? I didn't start this thread just to be a smart-### or have an argument, I actually have to figure out ####### to do with my situation.

Whoops, sorry VJ. I meant "smarty-pants" and "what on earth".

[Villanelle 4,122]

My my, sorry if I hit a nerve. I have no intentions of starting any kind of argument with you. The tone of this paragraph makes it pretty difficult to believe that you're replying for any other reason than to just have an argument on the internet.

I can tell you this. Your threads gotten a lot of views but not many replies. Do you know why? Hypnos laid it out in the first reply. You were intentionally vague. Besides the fact that the terms of use of the site prevent advising how to commit fraud- the seasoned and knowledgeable members here- well wouldnt do it anyway. And you as a knowledgeable person should know the difference between a post that reads: Here is my specific situation can ya'll advise me on how the laws apply (tons would answer and offer insight) and a vague post that says please lay out the general laws as an 'FYI' because then we are all sitting here like yeah okay fella so you can tailor your situation to the law? Nope. Not helping. But moving on--

First I dont speak for Sandra. I can only say she posts here out of the goodness of her heart in her spare time which is very very little. So she doesnt have a lot of time to give in depth detailed answers to every question asked. Or go back and explain. So those that do get a bit of her knowledge (for free) should consider themselves lucky. (IMO)

Second you asked how USCIS sees it. My personal opinions dont matter, neither does yours. Sure I find it odd that some couples have one spouse living and working miles and miles away and USCIS is like yeah thats okay but thats how it is. Im not debating the system. Im just telling you thats how it is.

--

You are still confusing the AOS intital GC process with the ROC process. Look at the article you quoted. It is found on a page titled "The Impact of Changes in Family Status on an Alien's Immigration Process Such as Divorce from, Death of, or Abuse by a USC or LPR Spouse " (sorry about the font but thats just how it copied over ) But thats not YOU in YOUR AOS situation... You cant just snip and read from articles and apply them yourself. You need to check the context of them.

You are just doing a NORMAL AOS, you have no abuse, you have no death, you have no impending divorce during ROC.

As for this "You're stating that if we're not living together, immigration doesn't consider us a family anymore. I'm stating that I've heard otherwise, and wondering what the reason is for the discrepancy. "

Im not stating that if you dont live together you are not considered a family anymore. Im simply restating what Sandra told you. Living FAR AWAY can be explained and accepted for AOS. Living close together but apart is not going to be accepted. You again say youve heard otherwise and Im saying no you havent. Not for regular AOS, for ROC maybe, for abuse cases sure. But not for normal AOS. But hey you know what? Perhaps you have heard it. Theres a lot of lawyers out there with a lot of misleading websites promising you the moon for a fee. But thats all it is. An empty promise because they get paid no matter the result and they cant and wont guarantee anything. Sandra gave you the blunt truth. Im sorry if its not what you want to hear.

For the process you are doing you need to demonstrate a bonafide marriage at the present time. Not after school is done, but right now. Thats the legal basis. If you say you live apart, then okay the next question is how far and why? You can not lie. And the truth which you revealed is that you live close but separate because you do not get along. You cant change the facts in the interview, you cant twist the facts.

So what you can do about your situation. Have one residence where you both live. If you MUST have 2, then the second one must be because of a job or school or some other legitimate reason (like a sick family member) that causes the spouse to be FAR away from the main home and have a separate residence.