Abuse of Vawa Discussion - split off from specific case

[BBCC 16]

And yes.(even though this should read can one purse VAWA w/o having filing for relief under DV as a victim in a local court- because you incorrectly juxtaposed the words VAWA and DV) the answer is still a resounding yes.

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Again, spend any time at all perusing the VAWA thread, you will find a substantial amount of advice been disseminated on how to file and use a DV claim in a local court in order to bolster the I-360 petition with USCIS. The two, while each adjudicated in completely separate procedures, are being very tightly correlated. Yes, there are exceptions where people are pursuing the I-360 petition alone. There are, however, far too many posts concerning the filing of DV claims in local court to separate the two.

Edited June 24, 2014 by BBCC

[Villanelle 4,122]

^Oh my.

You are so very confused with your terms and processes that its no wonder that the answers provided for you are not making any sense when you read other threads.

Of course when I apply your terms in the way you are looking at them incorrectly then yea things make sense but I urge you to remember the quote by Mark Twain- the difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and lightning bug.

So please please please keeps your words straight and lets go back a bit.

Your question was a rather simple one line question- can people purse VAWA w/o filing for relief in a local DV court (which would make all kinds of legal issues for the perpetrator) and the answer is yes.

Your response is:

There is advice on the VAWA thread on how to use your DV case in your 360 application. Um okay. Does this bother you or pose an issue for you? It is the VAWA thread. There is advice on the CR1/K1 threads on how to use your chat logs and vacation pictures in your K1 packet or AOS packet. Look at the ROC threads. People make lists all the time of evidence they plan on submitting and others suggest more. Thats part of what the forums are for. To help people gather the forms, assemble packets, provide support, answer questions like is this enough- am I missing something- should I add something? Are you implying that DV victims should not get help with their cases because they could be perpetrating fraud? Fraud exists everywhere in immigration starting with fraudulent K1s, Cr1s, and ROC- so you might as well shut down the whole forum and remove the guides.

Then you go on to say there are examples where they 'pursue the 360 alone'- again remember the lightning bugs. There is no such thing as pursing the 360 alone. Its the same form whether you choose to pursue it under physical abuse or mental abuse. USCIS makes no distinction between the two forms of abuse and neither should you. They are both horrible things to suffer through.

Then your final sentence really seems to have no point. It simply states- there are far too many posts concerning the filing of DV claims in local courts to separate the two. Im assuming you mean in the VAWA thread? Well golly. Who wouldve thought in that thread- a thread for victims of domestic violence that are filing for benefits w/o the support of the abuser that they would all have something in common like number 1-being victims of domestic violence. (of course there are the lawyers and advocates and mods and knowledgeable VJS that hang in the thread but yeah for the most part they are all DV victims) Number 2 being victims a large percentage suffer physical abuse and hey dont ya know theyve been involved in the court system. Its really funny how that happens. Its also funny how they are all afraid and end up with restraining orders. Its almost like when I venture to the K1 forums all those posters are engaged for some odd reason. Its like peanut butter and jelly, they are just drawn to that forum. So tightly correlated you can say.

​Seriously. No ones trying to separate them. Thats where they belong.

But on a serious side note. There are very fine lines between providing advice and guides and being helpful to those in legitimate need and laying out a how to guide for those to wish to commit fraud. Like I said above its not just in regards to VAWA petitions. It happens with pretty much every form filed with the USCIS. There is no easy answer. No one wants to shut the site down and simply stop answering or helping those that need help.

So I personally feel its up to each user to gauge the situation. When someone posts and starts asking questions if they make you uncomfortable then dont answer. Ive found that the community as a whole can usually sniff out people that are here that are up to no good and have them removed. Can you stop people from reading silently? No. But people that are intent on committing fraud or crimes will do. The internet is a vast place filled with all kinds of information. VJ is not the only source of it.

Edited June 24, 2014 by capri

[Caryh 5,206]

I believe BBCC is very concerned about fraudulent cases of domestic violence being filed in the courts. This is not just an issue with some immigrants intent on filing a VAWA claim. This has become a very common practice in divorce and custody issues, and men usually take the brunt of false abuse charges. I remember my ex wife used to brag about how her mother made false charges against her father, at the time she didn't like her father.But her mother actually hit herself with a rolling pin to create bruises and then called the cops right as their father arrived to see his kids. They dragged his butt off to jail, he was charged and convicted, after all look at her bruises. It wasn't as if he was even trying to get custody, she was mad at him for the cheating that had broken up their marriage. All that happened over 40 years ago, so this is certainly not a new phenomena, and certainly isn't restricted to VAWA cases. Do the same thing in a divorce, and you essentially kill any chance for the accused to get custody of their children, after all their violent tendencies are obvious.

[novedsac 355]

But her mother actually hit herself with a rolling pin to create bruises and then called the cops right as their father arrived to see his kids. They dragged his butt off to jail, he was charged and convicted, after all look at her bruises.

Yeah, this kinda thing scared the bejesus out of me, so after several false accusations I took steps to protect myself.

My ex had her boyfriend punch her in the face and tried to blame it on me - luckily I had security footage which showed this very clearly and that was the end of it, that boyfriend and any chance she had at convincing any Judge that she had any inkling of truth in anything she had to say. Heck, by the time I was done in Court, I don't think the Judge would have believed her if she swore the sky was blue.

I was told by one of the officers later that even without the footage, he tended to believe me because there was something about the situation that just didn't make sense to them or feel right.

[Caryh 5,206]

Yeah, this kinda thing scared the bejesus out of me, so after several false accusations I took steps to protect myself.

My ex had her boyfriend punch her in the face and tried to blame it on me - luckily I had security footage which showed this very clearly and that was the end of it, that boyfriend and any chance she had at convincing any Judge that she had any inkling of truth in anything she had to say. Heck, by the time I was done in Court, I don't think the Judge would have believed her if she swore the sky was blue.

I was told by one of the officers later that even without the footage, he tended to believe me because there was something about the situation that just didn't make sense to them or feel right.

I'm glad you got her good with the security footage. Not many get that opportunity. I wish those making false claims of abuse were prosecuted and given stiff penalties. Until the legal system starts taking this type of scam seriously for the damage it does, the abuse of the system will continue. People have everything to gain and nothing to lose now. But I don't look at every case of someone being abuse as immediately being a scam to. Many people are abused, men included, and they need protection from abusers.

[BBCC 16]

I'm glad you got her good with the security footage. Not many get that opportunity. I wish those making false claims of abuse were prosecuted and given stiff penalties. Until the legal system starts taking this type of scam seriously for the damage it does, the abuse of the system will continue. People have everything to gain and nothing to lose now. But I don't look at every case of someone being abuse as immediately being a scam to. Many people are abused, men included, and they need protection from abusers.

No truer words...

But because of the high rewards granted the accuser with little or any vetting as to the veracity of their statements, VAWA (the law) is as far from getting the job done as it is ever going to get..

[BBCC 16]

^Oh my.

My oh my, indeed.

It would be a far more meaninful conversation if you put as much effort into reading and comprehension as you do with writing.

[Sandra G. 5,047]

Please let's no trash the Vawa Law .I never read so many bs in just one post . Vawa cases can be adjudicated just by USCIS- VAWA UNIT in Vermont, or with the Immigration Court,and if the alien is in removal proceedings (Vawa cancellation of removal).

[Caryh 5,206]

No truer words...

But because of the high rewards granted the accuser with little or any vetting as to the veracity of their statements, VAWA (the law) is as far from getting the job done as it is ever going to get..

You're making the assumption the DV courts operate differently after VAWA was passed, as opposed to how they operated before VAWA was passed. The case I pointed out earlier occurred long before VAWA. VAWA also has many provisions that has nothing to do with enforcing domestic violence laws. The domestic violence laws were long in place before VAWA was passed. We should be very careful here also to point out, this is not the part of VAWA dealing with obtaining a green card because of domestic violence. Although those looking to use VAWA for a green card, can easily abuse the DV laws to get supporting evidence for a VAWA application. I think my only major complaint with the VAWA law, in its complete form, is the name is exclusive of men that are also abused, although they act covers both men and women, it falls into the societal bias we have that only women are the victims of domestic violence. We should protect all victims of domestic violence, but we should also make others victims of the law by those falsing making claims either.

Not really sure how a good balance could be obtained, but the current system has some definite flaws.

[BBCC 16]

You're making the assumption the DV courts operate differently after VAWA was passed, as opposed to how they operated before VAWA was passed.

No. Not at all. Remember when I wrote about reading and comprehension keeping up with your writing skills? Try it, Cary. Nothing to be afraid of.

Edited June 24, 2014 by BBCC

[Caryh 5,206]

No. Not at all. Remember when I wrote about reading and comprehension keeping up with your writing skills? Try it, Cary. Nothing to be afraid of.

Maybe you should practice your writing skills. As it appears you repeatedly use this tired line with just about everyone who doesn't agree with you.

[BBCC 16]

Maybe you should practice your writing skills. As it appears you repeatedly use this tired line with just about everyone who doesn't agree with you.

No, just the one's who excessively quote and then apply their own limited interpretation. Not even close to qualifying as a generalization. But, hey, different strokes.

[BBCC 16]

Please let's no trash the Vawa Law .I never read so many bs in just one post . Vawa cases can be adjudicated just by USCIS- VAWA UNIT in Vermont, or with the Immigration Court,and if the alien is in removal proceedings (Vawa cancellation of removal).

Yes, VAWA relief in the context of immigration is handled by those at the USCIS. General legal relief under VAWA (the law) is obviously handled by local courts in their respective counties. I believe that distinction has been drawn already more than once by both myself and others. What seems to have found to be controversial that has ignited the temper of more than one reader on the forum is my belief/observation that the local litigation initiated by the courts is most often being used to form the basis for relief sought under immigration petitions (I-360, etc). So often, that I am seeing the two seldom NOT being pursued at the same time.

And, yes, I admit as I have before that I believe VAWA (the law) to be very misguided and ineffective in resolving the general problem of DV. It has served only to greatly enhance the POTENTIAL of criminal malfeasance on the matter by all concerned.

Yes, I admit my views are controversial and quite disagreed by many. You will read statements you do not agree with. In some cases, not comprehend. But that is the reality of a forum. It happens.

Edited June 24, 2014 by BBCC

[Hypnos 6,576]

I don't think your views are controversial, just poorly formed from erroneous information. I've already debunked one outright untruth you posted (when you said VAWA claims require no proof).

Edited June 24, 2014 by Hypnos

[khwaidee1 196]

I don't know much about VAWA and it's application but I do know that is a Federal Act signed by then President Clinton. Therefore, I think your following statement to be erroneous as local courts in their respective counties do not interpret or enforce Federal Acts or laws.

"General legal relief under VAWA (the law) is obviously handled by local courts in their respective counties."