MSNBC: Iraq's collapse is a problem ...because people might think it's Obama's fault

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It's the fault of Bush and Blair for invading in 2003 and destabilising the entire Middle East. Even Bush Sr. Knew back in 1990 that removing Saddam would create violent anarchy. Surprise Surprise that this is exactly what has happened.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You said maybe I should go. I told you what I would do. I personally don't give two shakes of pigs ####### about them. We need oil. Those violent backwads would still be eating sand and living in caves if western culture, had not evolved. I say let them all kill each other, then lot god sort them out

That's quite a Himmleresque Hollywood view if history. 2000 years ago the civilisations of the middle east were more advanced than those of western Europe. It wasn't them living in squalor, it was people in Western Europe. The reason those countries are now as they are is because they were conquered and reconquered by various empires. No stability =no progress.

Kill them all let God sort them all out

Screw them let them have at it. Bring our boys home and stay out if it

No. You broke it, you bought it.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

And if you listen to the Democrat Party, everything is still BushBaby's fault, even now, five and a half years after his Presidency ended. Trouble is, the disaster didn't end with his Presidency, or with his policies.

I don't see why the war can't be blamed on Bush and Blair. They set it all in motion, did they not? Other politicians might have supported the vote (or been sidelined as happened to Claire Short and Robin Cook) but the guy running the show has to assume ultimate responsibility.

40+ years on, who should be blamed for the Vietnam war? Kennedy? Lyndon Johnson for escalating it? Noone seems to remember where that whole mess started, but surely the judgement of history should see some blame placed on decision makers of the time.

Why shouldn't Nixon and LBJ be blamed for what happened in Cambodia after they dropped more bombs on that country than were dropped on Japan in WW2 - an act which destabilised the government there and directly led to the Khmer Rouge takeover. Should Carter be blamed for not stopping the genocide (given that the political mood in the 70s after Vietnam was much as it is now after Iraq and Afghanistan)?

Did you know that Nixon seriously considered dropping nukes on Vietnam?

Perhaps we should stop deflecting and look at where these things actually started rather than trying to pin the whole thing on Obama for 'failing' to pick up the pieces of someone else's mess.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Papa Lazarou

[waka1 28]

Did you know that Nixon seriously considered dropping nukes on Vietnam?

No, please enlighten us....

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

That's quite a Himmleresque Hollywood view if history. 2000 years ago the civilisations of the middle east were more advanced than those of western Europe. It wasn't them living in squalor, it was people in Western Europe. The reason those countries are now as they are is because they were conquered and reconquered by various empires. No stability =no progress.

Guess what. This ain't 200 years ago

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

It's the fault of Bush and Blair for invading in 2003 and destabilising the entire Middle East. Even Bush Sr. Knew back in 1990 that removing Saddam would create violent anarchy. Surprise Surprise that this is exactly what has happened.

That's why half a million died in the Iran Iraq war.. Stability

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

Guess what. This ain't 2000 years ago

So "now" is important? .... As opposed to say "then" or even "way back then" ???

That should simplify things!

Edited June 17, 2014 by OnMyWayID

[Darnell 8,479]

http://www.caintv.com/nbc-iraq-is-a-problem-because

Maybe because it is? Nah, that can't be it. Nothing's his fault.

In the last few days, city after city has fallen to a massive army of Al Qaeda offshoot terrorists called ISIS. As the Daily Beast puts it, ISIS is the terrorist organization so extreme that it was "booted" from Al Qaeda proper. They organized, trained, took Mosul and, as a result, have now confiscated gobs of formerly-U.S. military hardware.

With the fall of Mosul on Tuesday, Iraq’s al Qaeda offshoot has not only seized the country’s second-largest city, it appears it also has come into possession of the heavy weapons and vehicles the U.S. military had provided Iraq’s military to fight them.

Now, the Independent reports that Baghdad is preparing for the worst as the army of Islamic militants threatens to overrun the capital city.

Islamist militants are closing in on Baghdad after capturing two towns north of Iraq's capital.

Officials said Iraqi soldiers abandoned their posts with no resistance when fighters from the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isis) pushed into Diyala province.

The UN said hundreds have been killed - with militants carrying out summary executions of civilians in Mosul, including 17 civilians in one street.

A dozen Iraqi security personnel were also killed and four women committed suicide after being raped.

UNAMI, the UN's mission to Iraq, estimates that almost 1,000 people may have been injured in recent days and half a million residents have fled Mosul.

So, with all of that in mind, we turn to MSNBC's Tamron Hall. She was discussing the situation with Time Magazine's Bobby Ghosh, and she wants to make sure everyone is aware of her deep, heartfelt concern. Oh, she doesn't care so much about the conditions in Iraq, the squandered U.S. lives, or the vast amounts of money this country spent.

She's worried that people might blame Barack Obama for what's happening.

But, realistically Bobby, Iraq cannot forever be the U.S.' problem. We know what happened. The loss of lives and treasure. We know the great divide that the war created within politics here, but when you see an elder statesman like Senator John McCain yet again saying a country, another country now needs the intervention of the United States and blaming this on the current administration, knowing that this President all along disagreed with the war and was largely the reason he was elected here. This then drives it back into the domestic politics of 'it’s Obama's fault.'

One has to be a moron, albeit the special-needs-child of Karl Rove, to NOT blame this carp on George Bush The Younger.

Oh Wait - there's a supposition that Iraq got Obamacized as well? Cool ! What a Rush ! [into more tomfoolery]

Edited June 17, 2014 by Darnell

[Darnell 8,479]

Get the Kurds their own state in the north of Iraq and Turkey, nobody f***s with the Kurds and they don't hate the west plus they won't tolerate terrorist's. Let the rest of the country sort itself out, divide along sectarian lines or whatever, years of western intervention didn't help and won't now.

I agree wholeheartedly ! Make a Kurd'ish country and stop this foolishness !

[Darnell 8,479]

First we should seize the oil fields. Keep them as occupied territory. Kick out all the locals. Then let them all kill each other, cause let's be honest, if the oil as not involved who would give a shat about iraq

but the oilfield workers would then be imported from Sri Lanka, south India, and Bengal. Not sure Iraq wants the mess the Saudi's have.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Guess what. This ain't 200 years ago

It's not 2000 years ago either. So what? You want to justify your small minded, imperialist assessment of the contribution middle eastern civilisations have made to human history. It comes from an outdated, colonialist view of history. You're ignorant and wrong and no amount of prissy one liners is going to change that.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

That's why half a million died in the Iran Iraq war.. Stability

Do you even have a point here? I think most people can grasp the concept that the 2003 war was not about either WMD or 'liberating' the Iraqi people and that creating a power vacuum in a country with significant sectarian divisions wasn't going to end well.

We'll ####### me backwards with a herring if that isn't exactly what has happened. Quelle surprise.

[Póg mo 1,749]

I agree wholeheartedly ! Make a Kurd'ish country and stop this foolishness !

Yes, I'm sure the Turks would love that to happen. What could possibly go wrong?

[Póg mo 1,749]

Do you even have a point here? I think most people can grasp the concept that the 2003 war was not about either WMD or 'liberating' the Iraqi people and that creating a power vacuum in a country with significant sectarian divisions wasn't going to end well.

We'll ####### me backwards with a herring if that isn't exactly what has happened. Quelle surprise.

Yes, that was back when Saddam was a good guy. The US loved him then.

[Jacque67 7,328]

Do you even have a point here? I think most people can grasp the concept that the 2003 war was not about either WMD or 'liberating' the Iraqi people and that creating a power vacuum in a country with significant sectarian divisions wasn't going to end well.

We'll ####### me backwards with a herring if that isn't exactly what has happened. Quelle surprise.

Agree with all the points you have made! Wow! You are on a roll.

Have you seen the ####### Blair came out with yesterday? HE should be impeached ( however unlikely to happen)