How can I prove someone is still married in the Philippines?

[ECS 3]

Thanks for the replies.

I do not know how much USC#1 knew about the fraud. It wasnt uncovered until 2010...19 years after her entering the US. That is when I found out about it. She obtained a visa under a false name. She claims that her sister stole someone elses ID for her for her to assume that persons identity.

This fraud is only the tip of the iceberg and I think I could write a book about what she was able to pull off for almost 20 years. She even has the audacity to appeal the removal to the BIA and then to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. She has put me through a world of ####### and this has cost me almost $100K and still have to provide support to her (because as far as the US Family Court is concerned, her divorces were valid, subsequently validating our marriage)

I believe I understand Philippine Law as far as marriage and divorce go. Divorce between both Philippine Citizens is non-existent except for a few rare instances. Divorce between a Philippine Citizen and a citizen from another country would only be vaild if the citizen from the other country is the one who petitioned for the divorce. She was the petition for both Philippine divorces, so they would be considered not valid in the Philippines.

I know this small part of the law practically inside and out as I have been dealing with this for over 4 years. However, I need something official that I can present to the court which states under current Philippine Law, and with these facts, then she is still considered married under Philippine Law.

I do realize that under US law, she was validly married to me. But if and when she retruns to the Philippines, she would still be considered married to the Philippine Citizen, which makes our marriage void from the beginning, which would annul the marraige.

[Greenbaum 12,259]

ECS, on 13 Jun 2014 - 8:06 PM, said:

Thanks for the replies.

I do not know how much USC#1 knew about the fraud. It wasnt uncovered until 2010...19 years after her entering the US. That is when I found out about it. She obtained a visa under a false name. She claims that her sister stole someone elses ID for her for her to assume that persons identity.

This fraud is only the tip of the iceberg and I think I could write a book about what she was able to pull off for almost 20 years. She even has the audacity to appeal the removal to the BIA and then to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. She has put me through a world of ####### and this has cost me almost $100K and still have to provide support to her (because as far as the US Family Court is concerned, her divorces were valid, subsequently validating our marriage)

I believe I understand Philippine Law as far as marriage and divorce go. Divorce between both Philippine Citizens is non-existent except for a few rare instances. Divorce between a Philippine Citizen and a citizen from another country would only be vaild if the citizen from the other country is the one who petitioned for the divorce. She was the petition for both Philippine divorces, so they would be considered not valid in the Philippines.

I know this small part of the law practically inside and out as I have been dealing with this for over 4 years. However, I need something official that I can present to the court which states under current Philippine Law, and with these facts, then she is still considered married under Philippine Law.

I do realize that under US law, she was validly married to me. But if and when she retruns to the Philippines, she would still be considered married to the Philippine Citizen, which makes our marriage void from the beginning, which would annul the marraige.

I'm not sure if this would be of any help but it is very informative about the Law as it pertains to marriage, annulment and divorce.

http://jlp-law.com/blog/judicial-recognition-of-a-foreign-divorce-decree/

[Boiler 45,932]

But if and when she retruns to the Philippines, she would still be considered married to the Philippine Citizen, which makes our marriage void from the beginning, which would annul the marraige.

Where did you get that from?

[novedsac 355]

I do realize that under US law, she was validly married to me. But if and when she retruns to the Philippines, she would still be considered married to the Philippine Citizen, which makes our marriage void from the beginning, which would annul the marraige.

I don't think that would necessarily be the case.

For USC #1, sure, his marriage was void because she hadn't a divorce on record anywhere, thereby ineligible to marry (hence the false identity, etc.).

But I believe any US Superior/Family Court would recognize her marriage to the Filipino dude to be dissolved appropriately and, hence, your marriage would still be valid from the perspective of both parties being eligible to marry, regardless of where she is living at any time now or in the future.

I don't believe any US Superior/Family Court is concerned with how the PI government looks at the situation.

I still think your strongest case for an annulment would be based on fraud. If you could prove her track record of a fraudulent marriage to enter the US the first time then it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to convince a Court that you were defrauded as well with your marriage.

[ECS 3]

Where did you get that from?

Perhaps its just a naive presumption on my part. My thinking is that while she is in the United States, she is subject to U.S Law and her two divorces and my subsequent marriage to her are valid. However, when she goes back to the Philippines, she would no longer be subject to US Law and the US would have to recognize PI Law. How could the U.S recognize both PI Law that she is married and a contradicitng US Law that she is divorced at the same time? Surely one would have to take precedence. no?

I still think your strongest case for an annulment would be based on fraud. If you could prove her track record of a fraudulent marriage to enter the US the first time then it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to convince a Court that you were defrauded as well with your marriage.

Yes. I am attacking it based on fraud as well. Getting an annulment is hard enough and probably impossible after 12 years. I need to get everything I can before I proceed with this.

[Hank_ 9,174]

Courts in the US would still only look at U.S. laws. And divorce is legal in the USA

Now it is true "she" is no longer subject to U.S. law once back in the Philippines, but that nothing to do with anything else.

[Boiler 45,932]

Perhaps its just a naive presumption on my part. My thinking is that while she is in the United States, she is subject to U.S Law and her two divorces and my subsequent marriage to her are valid. However, when she goes back to the Philippines, she would no longer be subject to US Law and the US would have to recognize PI Law. How could the U.S recognize both PI Law that she is married and a contradicitng US Law that she is divorced at the same time? Surely one would have to take precedence. no?

Yes. I am attacking it based on fraud as well. Getting an annulment is hard enough and probably impossible after 12 years. I need to get everything I can before I proceed with this.

As far as the US is concerned it is pretty simple, she is married to you.

[ECS 3]

Courts in the US would still only look at U.S. laws. And divorce is legal in the USA

Now it is true "she" is no longer subject to U.S. law once back in the Philippines, but that nothing to do with anything else.

As far as the US is concerned it is pretty simple, she is married to you.

And your credentials are...?

Please do not say it is common sense. There is a thing called comity which states countries should honor the laws of other countries. Again, she is married in the Philippines. When she goes back to the Philippines, The US 'HAS' to honor her Philippine marriage. Of course, it also 'HAS' to honor our US marriage and divorce, but one has to over rule the other, it cannot be both.

[Hank_ 9,174]

The U.S. does honor a marriage in the Philippines, but you are skating over the fact she divorced her Filipino husband which dissolved that marriage, and in the USA THAT divorce is recognized. Doesn't matter that the Philippines doesn't recognize the divorce (seriously?), the divorce exists and is legal in the USA ... and she was all divorced and free to marry when she married you from what I gather.

I for sure am not a divorce attorney, but I did stay at a Holiday Express once.... all I can say is "Good Luck"

[novedsac 355]

The US 'HAS' to honor her Philippine marriage. Of course, it also 'HAS' to honor our US marriage and divorce, but one has to over rule the other, it cannot be both.

No, the US does not HAVE to honor Philippine or any other nation's law. While there are numerous treaties for mutual recognition of things like marriage, divorce, property rights, etc., there are numerous instances where these are also ignored.

However, a US Court has already honored her Philippine marriage - otherwise she wouldn't have been eligible for her divorce.

But, you also answered your own question - in the case of conflicting law, the US law is going to trump in the US. Any US Court that sees her divorce decree for dissolution of the PI marriage is going to consider her divorced at the time you were married to her. it really is that simple.

From a civil perspective, one cannot be married in one place and not married in another at the same time. Just because the PI has a peculiar way of looking at divorce does not make it a convenient loophole.

It seems self-evident to me, but by all means … after you've spent another fortune trying to figure this out, let us know how it turned out.

Edited June 14, 2014 by novedsac

[ECS 3]

Ok. Thanks for the replies.

Do you think I have a chance on getting an annulment based on fraud?

[Darnell 8,479]

an annulment in the USA? yes.

but aren't you already divorced from her?

Edited June 15, 2014 by Darnell

[Boiler 45,932]

I see the issue with immigration fraud. Missed the marriage fraud.

I see the issue with immigration fraud. Missed the marriage fraud.

[ECS 3]

an annulment in the USA? yes.

but aren't you already divorced from her?

Yes. I am already divorced but am seeking a modification to annulment.

I see the issue with immigration fraud. Missed the marriage fraud.

I see the issue with immigration fraud. Missed the marriage fraud.

Our entire marriage, she misrepresented who she was. She misprepresented how many previous marriages she had. How many children she had. She mispresented her age. Misrepresented her immigration status. She obtained the divorce by misrepresenting herself during those proceedings. She knew all along what she was doing but did not tell me until she couldnt escape the truth any longer. You see, its a very long, complicated story with many pieces. I have only touched the tip of the iceberg.

[belinda63 3,041]

This story is starting to sound familiar. Have you posted her previously about this.

Anyways, not really sure where you are going with this. She is under deportation proceedings. You could present your proof to the prosecutor if you are worried about her winning her case.

As to wanting an annulment you would need to speak to a family attorney. The laws and burdens of proof vary from state to state. I really doubt your angle of her still being married under Philippine law is going to amount to anything as she was divorced and free to marry under US law which is where she married. That would be like saying if I were religiously married under Muslim religious rules to my spouse but got a US divorce we would still be married in all the Muslim countries. While it may matter in those countries the US doesn't give a bean about their laws. The fraud would be the way to go but then would it really have affected your desire to marry her if you had know prior? She lied to you and you were hurt by it, understandable. But was there anything she hid from you that you can say "If I had know this I never would have married her"?

Edited June 15, 2014 by belinda63