The who should be Mod and Mod Issues Thread

[Pooky 3,761]

The idea of having a separate forum inside the forum is akin to immigrating to another country and expecting the local government to create a special set of rules to suit your needs because you don't want to interact with the locals or because you can't be bothered to abide by their rules.

Isn't that rather akin to the way Washington dingbats view illegal immigration?

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Isn't that rather akin to the way Washington dingbats view illegal immigration?

That was my point, which he totally missed or did not understand

[JohnR! 5,495]

There's no need to create a different venue, the current one is fine. Just make it clear to newbies that discussions do get heated and aren't always civil. You can still appeal to moderation, if needed, but petty personal squabbles shouldn't be the reason for posts being deleted or threads closed. Obviously the parts of the TOS that deal with racism and porn graphic content would still apply but you wouldn't have the constant babysitting that goes on. Just seems like a massive waste of energy.

Moderation should be solely concerned with the upper forums which are the primary reason people use the site. That content is what needs curating, not political discussion threads.

The issue with that is that these forums provide results for internet search and left to its own devices it will be a matter of days before the VJ as a whole be included in the list of hate sites. The problem is not the discussion so much as that some use the forum as their own hate spewing platform.

If you want to practice your right to free speech and incite hatred towards everyone who's different from you, there are several sites that cater to fundamentalist christians, xenophobes in general, KKK and other places where hate is not only welcomed but also fostered.

Isn't that rather akin to the way Washington dingbats view illegal immigration?

That is also akin to the way the VJ dingbats [sic] view these forums.

That was my point, which he totally missed or did not understand

To be sure. You had a great idea to make the connection! Kudos kid!

Edited July 20, 2014 by JohnR!

[Peikko 1,575]

The issue with that is that these forums provide results for internet search and left to its own devices it will be a matter of days before the VJ as a whole be included in the list of hate sites. The problem is not the discussion so much as that some use the forum as their own hate spewing platform.

If you want to practice your right to free speech and incite hatred towards everyone who's different from you, there are several sites that cater to fundamentalist christians, xenophobes in general, KKK and other places where hate is not only welcomed but also fostered.

That is the way I personally view the request to create a separate forum within this forum.

However, the problem with that is that people frequently do post articles from sites that are not that far removed from hate sites and present them as factual. I am not sure how doing this hasn't resulted in a problematic profile for this site. I wouldn't avoid a web site because someone called someone else a richard head or the like, but I would avoid a site that spouted racist or bigoted rhetoric. I think that's what Ming is alluding to.

[JohnR! 5,495]

However, the problem with that is that people frequently do post articles from sites that are not that far removed from hate sites and present them as factual. I am not sure how doing this hasn't resulted in a problematic profile for this site. I wouldn't avoid a web site because someone called someone else a richard head or the like, but I would avoid a site that spouted racist or bigoted rhetoric. I think that's what Ming is alluding to.

It hasn't become a problem yet but as search engines become ever more sophisticated they will be able to make these connections twice removes, so a particular site may be liked through a post to another site being used as the source for a thread.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The issue with that is that these forums provide results for internet search and left to its own devices it will be a matter of days before the VJ as a whole be included in the list of hate sites. The problem is not the discussion so much as that some use the forum as their own hate spewing platform.

If you want to practice your right to free speech and incite hatred towards everyone who's different from you, there are several sites that cater to fundamentalist christians, xenophobes in general, KKK and other places where hate is not only welcomed but also fostered.

That is the way I personally view the request to create a separate forum within this forum.

Well the CEHST forum was created to solve that problem. There used to just be a single off topic forum that had everything in it.

The problem is that in order to have a 'reasoned debate' forum you need moderators who are actively engaged in the discussions, not to participate but to facilitate the discussions and make sure that they don't go off track. That's obviously impractical what with time zones and the size of the membership. The problem now is that some of the moderators will make a judgement on a single post without bothering to read the rest of the thread to see exactly what is going on.

However, the problem with that is that people frequently do post articles from sites that are not that far removed from hate sites and present them as factual. I am not sure how doing this hasn't resulted in a problematic profile for this site. I wouldn't avoid a web site because someone called someone else a richard head or the like, but I would avoid a site that spouted racist or bigoted rhetoric. I think that's what Ming is alluding to.

Yep.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Bring back ExPats!!

[Peikko 1,575]

It hasn't become a problem yet but as search engines become ever more sophisticated they will be able to make these connections twice removes, so a particular site may be liked through a post to another site being used as the source for a thread.

Yet being the operative word Interesting.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Well the CEHST forum was created to solve that problem. There used to just be a single off topic forum that had everything in it.

The problem is that in order to have a 'reasoned debate' forum you need moderators who are actively engaged in the discussions, not to participate but to facilitate the discussions and make sure that they don't go off track. That's obviously impractical what with time zones and the size of the membership. The problem now is that some of the moderators will make a judgement on a single post without bothering to read the rest of the thread to see exactly what is going on.

Yep.

True. I don't dispute that for a second and that is one of the prices for having a self-moderated forum. I agree that sometimes the mods make decisions that apparently don't make sense but I never suspected bias or leniency one way or another. I honestly believe they do their best and every so often they may get something wrong but that goes with the territory as well. In the end I don't have a solution either, so all that is left is civil debate.

Yet being the operative word Interesting.

There is always something afoot in Mountain View...

[spookyturtle 9,465]

True. I don't dispute that for a second and that is one of the prices for having a self-moderated forum. I agree that sometimes the mods make decisions that apparently don't make sense but I never suspected bias or leniency one way or another. I honestly believe they do their best and every so often they may get something wrong but that goes with the territory as well. In the end I don't have a solution either, so all that is left is civil debate.

No way. It's a conspiracy.

[JohnR! 5,495]

No way. It's a conspiracy.

Shhh! It's a secret conspiracy!!! You need to keep quiet lest it be exposed by some prepubescent teenager's blog, and end up finding its way to VJ.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

The issue with that is that these forums provide results for internet search and left to its own devices it will be a matter of days before the VJ as a whole be included in the list of hate sites. The problem is not the discussion so much as that some use the forum as their own hate spewing platform.

If you want to practice your right to free speech and incite hatred towards everyone who's different from you, there are several sites that cater to fundamentalist christians, xenophobes in general, KKK and other places where hate is not only welcomed but also fostered.

Well I'll be a monkey's Uncle, you lost me there. That seems to have come from out of the blue.

[Sousuke 1,214]

To be honest, there aren't many of us left. Why would they bother doing anything. I think there are now more moderators then active posters in this forum.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Well I'll be a monkey's Uncle, you lost me there. That seems to have come from out of the blue.

I was referring to a comment made a while back by a mod, to the effect that the reason they concern themselves with what is said here had to do with the fact that VJ is part of the repository from which Google and other search engines draw information.

The idea is that it would not be in the interest of a immigration site such as this, to have its content come out in searches related to hate speech.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It's not just keyword content, it's outgoing links as well.

It's not just keyword content, it's outgoing links as well.