Creationist asks ‘hard question’: ‘If evolution is true, is rape wrong?’

[SMR 368]

So you take issue with the idea that someone intoxicated to the point of being no longer able to provide consent is no longer able to provide consent?

No.

[JohnR! 5,495]

No.

Here is something that might shed some light on the elusive definition of rape. Still not looking good for any omnipotent entity..

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/January/12-ag-018.html

ttorney General Eric Holder today announced revisions to the Uniform Crime Report’s (UCR) definition of rape, which will lead to a more comprehensive statistical reporting of rape nationwide. The new definition is more inclusive, better reflects state criminal codes and focuses on the various forms of sexual penetration understood to be rape. The new definition of rape is: “The penetration, no matter how slight, of the ####### or ####### with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.” The definition is used by the FBI to collect information from local law enforcement agencies about reported rapes.

“Rape is a devastating crime and we can’t solve it unless we know the full extent of it,” said Vice President Biden, a leader in the effort to end violence against women for over 20 years and author of the landmark Violence Against Women Act. “This long-awaited change to the definition of rape is a victory for women and men across the country whose suffering has gone unaccounted for over 80 years.”

“These long overdue updates to the definition of rape will help ensure justice for those whose lives have been devastated by sexual violence and reflect the Department of Justice’s commitment to standing with rape victims,” Attorney General Holder said. “This new, more inclusive definition will provide us with a more accurate understanding of the scope and volume of these crimes.”

“The FBI’s Criminal Justice Information Services (CJIS) Advisory Policy Board recently recommended the adoption of a revised definition of rape within the Summary Reporting System of the Uniform Crime Reporting Program,” said David Cuthbertson, FBI Assistant Director, CJIS Division. “This definitional change was recently approved by FBI Director Robert S. Mueller. This change will give law enforcement the ability to report more complete rape offense data, as the new definition reflects the vast majority of state rape statutes. As we implement this change, the FBI is confident that the number of victims of this heinous crime will be more accurately reflected in national crime statistics.”

The revised definition includes any gender of victim or perpetrator, and includes instances in which the victim is incapable of giving consent because of temporary or permanent mental or physical incapacity, including due to the influence of drugs or alcohol or because of age. The ability of the victim to give consent must be determined in accordance with state statute. Physical resistance from the victim is not required to demonstrate lack of consent. The new definition does not change federal or state criminal codes or impact charging and prosecution on the local level.

“The revised definition of rape sends an important message to the broad range of rape victims that they are supported and to perpetrators that they will be held accountable,” said Justice Department Director of the Office on Violence Against Women Susan B. Carbon. “We are grateful for the dedicated work of all those involved in making and implementing the changes that reflect more accurately the devastating crime of rape.”

T he longstanding, narrow definition of forcible rape, first established in 1927, is “the carnal knowledge of a female, forcibly and against her will.” It thus included only forcible male penile penetration of a female ####### and excluded oral and ####### penetration; rape of males; penetration of the ####### and ####### with an object or body part other than the #######; rape of females by females; and, non-forcible rape.

Police departments submit data on reported crimes and arrests to the UCR. The UCR data are reported nationally and used to measure and understand crime trends. In addition, the UCR program will also collect data based on the historical definition of rape, enabling law enforcement to track consistent trend data until the statistical differences between the old and new definitions are more fully understood.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Gegel

[Jacque67 7,328]

Here is something that might shed some light on the elusive definition of rape. Still not looking good for any omnipotent entity..

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/January/12-ag-018.html

ttorney General Eric Holder today announced revisions to the Uniform Crime Reports (UCR) definition of rape, which will lead to a more comprehensive statistical reporting of rape nationwide. The new definition is more inclusive, better reflects state criminal codes and focuses on the various forms of sexual penetration understood to be rape. The new definition of rape is: The penetration, no matter how slight, of the ####### or ####### with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim. The definition is used by the FBI to collect information from local law enforcement agencies about reported rapes.

Rape is a devastating crime and we cant solve it unless we know the full extent of it, said Vice President Biden, a leader in the effort to end violence against women for over 20 years and author of the landmark Violence Against Women Act. This long-awaited change to the definition of rape is a victory for women and men across the country whose suffering has gone unaccounted for over 80 years.

These long overdue updates to the definition of rape will help ensure justice for those whose lives have been devastated by sexual violence and reflect the Department of Justices commitment to standing with rape victims, Attorney General Holder said. This new, more inclusive definition will provide us with a more accurate understanding of the scope and volume of these crimes.

The FBIs Criminal Justice Information Services (CJIS) Advisory Policy Board recently recommended the adoption of a revised definition of rape within the Summary Reporting System of the Uniform Crime Reporting Program, said David Cuthbertson, FBI Assistant Director, CJIS Division. This definitional change was recently approved by FBI Director Robert S. Mueller. This change will give law enforcement the ability to report more complete rape offense data, as the new definition reflects the vast majority of state rape statutes. As we implement this change, the FBI is confident that the number of victims of this heinous crime will be more accurately reflected in national crime statistics.

The revised definition includes any gender of victim or perpetrator, and includes instances in which the victim is incapable of giving consent because of temporary or permanent mental or physical incapacity, including due to the influence of drugs or alcohol or because of age. The ability of the victim to give consent must be determined in accordance with state statute. Physical resistance from the victim is not required to demonstrate lack of consent. The new definition does not change federal or state criminal codes or impact charging and prosecution on the local level.

The revised definition of rape sends an important message to the broad range of rape victims that they are supported and to perpetrators that they will be held accountable, said Justice Department Director of the Office on Violence Against Women Susan B. Carbon. We are grateful for the dedicated work of all those involved in making and implementing the changes that reflect more accurately the devastating crime of rape.

T he longstanding, narrow definition of forcible rape, first established in 1927, is the carnal knowledge of a female, forcibly and against her will. It thus included only forcible male penile penetration of a female ####### and excluded oral and ####### penetration; rape of males; penetration of the ####### and ####### with an object or body part other than the #######; rape of females by females; and, non-forcible rape.

Police departments submit data on reported crimes and arrests to the UCR. The UCR data are reported nationally and used to measure and understand crime trends. In addition, the UCR program will also collect data based on the historical definition of rape, enabling law enforcement to track consistent trend data until the statistical differences between the old and new definitions are more fully understood.

+1

[GandD 5,966]

This guy wrote a book about how humans interacted with dinosaurs. As a result of that action, I tend to consider his opinion accordingly. You have to be in some serious denial to believe the earth is 10,000 years old and humans were "poofed" into existence. Yet people still struggle with this. THIS is how powerful the part of the brain that succumbs to religion really is. It over rides logic and reasoning completely. Unless my brain's laid out different and some folks really just can't "get" the concept of carbon dating. Why do people think carbon dating is theoretical? Its not.

[Peikko 1,575]

By Travis Gettys

Wednesday, June 11, 2014 8:55 EDT

Creationist Darek Isaacs said during an online broadcast posted Monday that evolutionary theory excused rape.

He said during an episode of “Creation Today” that he had studied works by Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, E.O. Wilson, and other “purveyors of evolutionary thought” and found himself in “a very, very dark place,” reported the Friendly Atheist blog.

“You have to start asking questions: Well, if evolution is true, and it’s just all about the male propagating their DNA, we had to ask hard questions, like, well, is rape wrong?” Isaacs said, as one of his hosts gasps.

Isaacs is the author of “Dragons or Dinosaurs?” ... which argues that ancient myths about dragons were based on human interactions with dinosaurs.

...

“According to the evolutionary worldview, [if] that male is strong enough and he had wonderful genes, he should propagate his DNA as much as possible so that the species can progress,” Isaacs said. “So it redefines everything about our society.”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/11/creationist-asks-hard-question-if-evolution-is-true-is-rape-wrong/

Whoever the hell that Darek Isaacs is, he's clearly a dufus and shouldn't be allowed to procreate, not because he misunderstands evolutionary theory and carbon dating, so his children would obviously be equally stupid ( ) but because I don't think he should be allowed around children, he's too dippy.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Darn idiots

[Jacque67 7,328]

Except for the millions that are dead.. They just suffered.

Not saying he isn't out there, just saying I could do a better job given the opportunity.. For example there was a Japanese guy that slowly tortured his victims by thinly slicing their bodies starting at their hands and working his way up and letting them recover after each slice. He wanted to see how much he could cut off of a human body and it still live. I don't know what lesson the victims or victimizer or we as voyeurs were meant to get. I would have smite that b***rd at the first slice.

Hmm.. You know that might have been a movie not an actual crime..

Movie.

[SMR 368]

Here is something that might shed some light on the elusive definition of rape. Still not looking good for any omnipotent entity..

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/January/12-ag-018.html

ttorney General Eric Holder today announced revisions to the Uniform Crime Report’s (UCR) definition of rape, which will lead to a more comprehensive statistical reporting of rape nationwide. The new definition is more inclusive, better reflects state criminal codes and focuses on the various forms of sexual penetration understood to be rape. The new definition of rape is: “The penetration, no matter how slight, of the ####### or ####### with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.” The definition is used by the FBI to collect information from local law enforcement agencies about reported rapes.

“Rape is a devastating crime and we can’t solve it unless we know the full extent of it,” said Vice President Biden, a leader in the effort to end violence against women for over 20 years and author of the landmark Violence Against Women Act. “This long-awaited change to the definition of rape is a victory for women and men across the country whose suffering has gone unaccounted for over 80 years.”

“These long overdue updates to the definition of rape will help ensure justice for those whose lives have been devastated by sexual violence and reflect the Department of Justice’s commitment to standing with rape victims,” Attorney General Holder said. “This new, more inclusive definition will provide us with a more accurate understanding of the scope and volume of these crimes.”

“The FBI’s Criminal Justice Information Services (CJIS) Advisory Policy Board recently recommended the adoption of a revised definition of rape within the Summary Reporting System of the Uniform Crime Reporting Program,” said David Cuthbertson, FBI Assistant Director, CJIS Division. “This definitional change was recently approved by FBI Director Robert S. Mueller. This change will give law enforcement the ability to report more complete rape offense data, as the new definition reflects the vast majority of state rape statutes. As we implement this change, the FBI is confident that the number of victims of this heinous crime will be more accurately reflected in national crime statistics.”

The revised definition includes any gender of victim or perpetrator, and includes instances in which the victim is incapable of giving consent because of temporary or permanent mental or physical incapacity, including due to the influence of drugs or alcohol or because of age. The ability of the victim to give consent must be determined in accordance with state statute. Physical resistance from the victim is not required to demonstrate lack of consent. The new definition does not change federal or state criminal codes or impact charging and prosecution on the local level.

“The revised definition of rape sends an important message to the broad range of rape victims that they are supported and to perpetrators that they will be held accountable,” said Justice Department Director of the Office on Violence Against Women Susan B. Carbon. “We are grateful for the dedicated work of all those involved in making and implementing the changes that reflect more accurately the devastating crime of rape.”

T he longstanding, narrow definition of forcible rape, first established in 1927, is “the carnal knowledge of a female, forcibly and against her will.” It thus included only forcible male penile penetration of a female ####### and excluded oral and ####### penetration; rape of males; penetration of the ####### and ####### with an object or body part other than the #######; rape of females by females; and, non-forcible rape.

Police departments submit data on reported crimes and arrests to the UCR. The UCR data are reported nationally and used to measure and understand crime trends. In addition, the UCR program will also collect data based on the historical definition of rape, enabling law enforcement to track consistent trend data until the statistical differences between the old and new definitions are more fully understood.

So still not a gender neutral definition. Got it.

[Novembro 1,763]

So still not a gender neutral definition. Got it.

“The penetration, no matter how slight, of the ####### or ####### with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.”

Read please!

[JohnR! 5,495]

So still not a gender neutral definition. Got it.

That would be correct unless you read the text, but again, it is still immaterial; looking pretty bad for any deity...

[SMR 368]

“The penetration, no matter how slight, of the ####### or ####### with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.”

Read please!

That would be correct unless you read the text, but again, it is still immaterial; looking pretty bad for any deity...

I did read it. According to that definition, if a man has sex with a woman without her consent, it's rape. But if a woman has sex with a man without his consent, that isn't rape. Hence, it's not gender neutral.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

The revised definition includes any gender of victim or perpetrator, and includes instances in which the victim is incapable of giving consent because of temporary or permanent mental or physical incapacity, including due to the influence of drugs or alcohol or because of age. The ability of the victim to give consent must be determined in accordance with state statute. Physical resistance from the victim is not required to demonstrate lack of consent. The new definition does not change federal or state criminal codes or impact charging and prosecution on the local level.

Here, let me show you.

They do discuss the now outmoded definition from 1927, which this new definition replaces. Try not to get the past confused for the present.

Hope that clears it up for you.

Edited June 12, 2014 by Harpa Timsah

[mota bhai 2,675]

I did read it. According to that definition, if a man has sex with a woman without her consent, it's rape. But if a woman has sex with a man without his consent, that isn't rape. Hence, it's not gender neutral.

“The penetration, no matter how slight, of the ####### or ####### with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.”

If a man is intoxicated to the point of being unable to provide consent and a bunch of horny women strip him naked and take turns sitting on his erect #######, then that doesn't qualify as rape under that definition because his ####### was not used and he does not have a #######; and because the penetration was not oral.

[JohnR! 5,495]

“The penetration, no matter how slight, of the ####### or ####### with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.”

If a man is intoxicated to the point of being unable to provide consent and a bunch of horny women strip him naked and take turns sitting on his erect #######, then that doesn't qualify as rape under that definition because his ####### was not used and he does not have a #######; and because the penetration was not oral.

Yes it does. The text below does not specify who must be doing the penetration. In your scenario, the intoxicated male can claim that penetration was achieved without his consent.

“The penetration, no matter how slight, of the ####### or ####### with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.”

[mota bhai 2,675]

So a man could rape a woman, but the rapist could be the woman because the text does not specify whether the penetrator or the penetratee is the rapist? What?