Why the Anti-Gun left prevents sensible Gun Control

[Peikko 1,575]

Well, there has clearly been an increase in these types of shootings over the last 2-3 years. I think its a contagious epidemic. Similar increases have occurred around public suicides. In Austria, they had a rash of deaths related to mass transit. They found after providing the media information on how to disseminate info related to the suicides that the rate immediately began to drop.

Step one seems to be for the media to (voluntarily) agree to follow guidelines as not releasing the killers names or manifestos. By doing this, the contagion can be contained.

Next, I think its important that people recognize the warning signs these killers leave behind.

I'm ok with full background checks etc with private party transfers.

There we go, something tangible and sensible (although getting the media to agree to a voluntary moratorium on these types of stories? I don't see that going down easily) Of course, it does ruin the fun of those who want to argue the toss about the killing rate of deadly assault weaponry, but sacrifices have to be made in the interests of progress...

[Sousuke 1,214]

There we go, something tangible and sensible (although getting the media to agree to a voluntary moratorium on these types of stories? I don't see that going down easily) Of course, it does ruin the fun of those who want to argue the toss about the killing rate of deadly assault weaponry, but sacrifices have to be made in the interests of progress...

I think all the details are ok but part of the reason these things happen is for notoriety so if the person's ramblings never see the light of day, hopefully future people with the same mindset will not try knowing their info will never get published.

It should be voluntary, as I don't agree with limiting the media's first amendment rights.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Well, there has clearly been an increase in these types of shootings over the last 2-3 years. I think its a contagious epidemic. Similar increases have occurred around public suicides. In Austria, they had a rash of deaths related to mass transit. They found after providing the media information on how to disseminate info related to the suicides that the rate immediately began to drop.

Step one seems to be for the media to (voluntarily) agree to follow guidelines as not releasing the killers names or manifestos. By doing this, the contagion can be contained.

Next, I think its important that people recognize the warning signs these killers leave behind.

I'm ok with full background checks etc with private party transfers.

I think if they would stop stupid things like "banning assault looking weapons" we could get 100% background checks done. I favor them also.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Well, there has clearly been an increase in these types of shootings over the last 2-3 years. I think its a contagious epidemic. Similar increases have occurred around public suicides. In Austria, they had a rash of deaths related to mass transit. They found after providing the media information on how to disseminate info related to the suicides that the rate immediately began to drop.

Step one seems to be for the media to (voluntarily) agree to follow guidelines as not releasing the killers names or manifestos. By doing this, the contagion can be contained.

Next, I think its important that people recognize the warning signs these killers leave behind.

I'm ok with full background checks etc with private party transfers.

Good stuff!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I think if they would stop stupid things like "banning assault looking weapons" we could get 100% background checks done. I favor them also.

That's wishful thinking. Imagine for second that the House would propose and pass 100% background checks today. No strings attached - no assault weapons ban, no magazine limits, nothing. Just a full 360 on background checks for all firearm transfers. If that was passed by the House today, it would fly through the Senate tomorrow and have the President's signature same day. Nobody would talk about assault weapons. Problem is, it will never, ever make the agenda in the House in the current political environment. It's really just that simple.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

That's wishful thinking. Imagine for second that the House would propose and pass 100% background checks today. No strings attached - no assault weapons ban, no magazine limits, nothing. Just a full 360 on background checks for all firearm transfers. If that was passed by the House today, it would fly through the Senate tomorrow and have the President's signature same day. Nobody would talk about assault weapons. Problem is, it will never, ever make the agenda in the House in the current political environment. It's really just that simple.

Now see, almost all of us here agree. You have to admit when the talk starts it's always about magazine capacities and assault weapons. I think the NRA would get on board if we could get the present system sorted out, start prosecuting felons who try to buy guns,and the sale would not go into a national database.

A buddy of mine and i were talking at supper. Another buddy wanted him to buy him a .22 to shoot squirrels with. The guy was married to a crazy woman, and she filed charges once, long story short the guy can't pass a back ground check. Now the guy is a great stable guy and i am fairly sure nothing would ever go wrong but

I told my buddy, who is a bit naive, don't you dare do that. I explained what a straw purchase was and how much trouble he could get in.

That having been said, I could sell the same guy my AR-15 that I have had sometime, and it would be perfectly legal. That loophole needs to be stopped. I guess you could buy a lot of guns. hold them a year and then re-sale and it would not be a straw purchase.

Edited June 12, 2014 by The Nature Boy

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Spooky, little clarification please?

I'm going to go out on a a limb a little bit here and probably draw the wrath of some of my fellow gun owners. I had to take driving lessons and pass a basic skills test in order to get a drivers license. I also have to get a DOT physical every 2 years in order to keep my Class A drivers license. If you want the Haz Mat endorsement, you have to retest for that every x years. I had to take x hours of classroom instruction and pass a test to get my real estate license. I also have to take x hours of continuing ed classes every 2 years to keep my license active. I had to take a test to get my hydraulics license. I have to take continuing ed classes to maintain my construction supervisors license. If I go to the local humane society and want to adopt a kitten, I get checked out and a visit is made to my home.

Now to guns. I think that Illinois is on the right track since they were forced to allow CC. You must pass a background check and you must take a safety course. To me, this is just common sense. Safety is number one with driving and with guns. I'm sure there are people who have purchased guns and carry them and more in danger of shooting themselves than anyone else. I have no problem with background checks and safety courses for first time gun buyers, rifles and shotguns included, not just handguns. A responsible gun owner knows his guns and how to maintain them. And practices SAFETY at all times. Treat every gun as if it were loaded, even when you know it isn't. NEVER point a gun at anyone or anything you do not intend to shoot. Not for fun, not for joking around, not for, Oh! just kidding. Guns and alcohol don't mix, just as drinking and driving don't mix.

Now the above paragraph probably has a few here foaming at the mouth. But you know what? I still have my Second Amendment rights and can legally own guns. My right isn't being infringed upon from my point of view. I know some will argue that driving is a privilege and gun ownership is a right, and I can respect that. But people need to be trained with some things, especially when misuse can endanger others lives. I can't operate a crane without a license. I'd hate to be working around someone who didn't have the basic competency skills, just as I wouldn't hunt with someone who had no experience or safety training. I don't think that just anyone can pick up a gun and know what to do unless they are taught proper safety practices and gun handling techniques. I was fortunate that I had all of this instilled in me at a young age. Guns aren't toys, just as a chain saw, etc in the hands of a moron can be dangerous.

I see mental health as a huge problem today. If I were to go completely berserk in an argument, my first thought would be to choke the livingfuck out of whoever was pissing me off. Shooting them wouldn't even enter my mind. I don't think that way. Ever. Maybe kids today have played too many video games. Maybe violence isn't real to them, I have no idea, something's not right. Mental health is part of the problem, and quite obviously so with the mass shootings. You have to be a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic to do that. Ditto for shooting someone in a movie theater for texting. There are a lot of fvcked up people out there. And here too.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I'm going to go out on a a limb a little bit here and probably draw the wrath of some of my fellow gun owners. I had to take driving lessons and pass a basic skills test in order to get a drivers license. I also have to get a DOT physical every 2 years in order to keep my Class A drivers license. If you want the Haz Mat endorsement, you have to retest for that every x years. I had to take x hours of classroom instruction and pass a test to get my real estate license. I also have to take x hours of continuing ed classes every 2 years to keep my license active. I had to take a test to get my hydraulics license. I have to take continuing ed classes to maintain my construction supervisors license. If I go to the local humane society and want to adopt a kitten, I get checked out and a visit is made to my home.

Now to guns. I think that Illinois is on the right track since they were forced to allow CC. You must pass a background check and you must take a safety course. To me, this is just common sense. Safety is number one with driving and with guns. I'm sure there are people who have purchased guns and carry them and more in danger of shooting themselves than anyone else. I have no problem with background checks and safety courses for first time gun buyers, rifles and shotguns included, not just handguns. A responsible gun owner knows his guns and how to maintain them. And practices SAFETY at all times. Treat every gun as if it were loaded, even when you know it isn't. NEVER point a gun at anyone or anything you do not intend to shoot. Not for fun, not for joking around, not for, Oh! just kidding. Guns and alcohol don't mix, just as drinking and driving don't mix.

Now the above paragraph probably has a few here foaming at the mouth. But you know what? I still have my Second Amendment rights and can legally own guns. My right isn't being infringed upon from my point of view. I know some will argue that driving is a privilege and gun ownership is a right, and I can respect that. But people need to be trained with some things, especially when misuse can endanger others lives. I can't operate a crane without a license. I'd hate to be working around someone who didn't have the basic competency skills, just as I wouldn't hunt with someone who had no experience or safety training. I don't think that just anyone can pick up a gun and know what to do unless they are taught proper safety practices and gun handling techniques. I was fortunate that I had all of this instilled in me at a young age. Guns aren't toys, just as a chain saw, etc in the hands of a moron can be dangerous.

I see mental health as a huge problem today. If I were to go completely berserk in an argument, my first thought would be to choke the livingfuck out of whoever was pissing me off. Shooting them wouldn't even enter my mind. I don't think that way. Ever. Maybe kids today have played too many video games. Maybe violence isn't real to them, I have no idea, something's not right. Mental health is part of the problem, and quite obviously so with the mass shootings. You have to be a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic to do that. Ditto for shooting someone in a movie theater for texting. There are a lot of fvcked up people out there. And here too.

A. I don't have a bit of problem with having to take a safety course to get a CC permit. You have to do that here to get a hunting L

B. They should exempt Military and Law E or anyone who can prove they have had a lot of safety training

C. You have way too many Licences, sounds like you drive, build and sell X-men units that convert into homes.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

A. I don't have a bit of problem with having to take a safety course to get a CC permit. You have to do that here to get a hunting L

B. They should exempt Military and Law E or anyone who can prove they have had a lot of safety training

C. You have way too many Licences, sounds like you drive, build and sell X-men units that convert into homes.

I agree about the Military and Law Enforcement, they just need to have a background check. I've had most of those for a long time. That's why I have no problem with safety courses and background checks. But then again, I've got nothing to hide either, so I don't worry about that. I think that we need to enforce the laws we already have. As far as I know, illegally having a gun is currently illegal. I think we need to take a closer look at what is happening with some of these young lunatics. I honestly believe that more can be done to reduce gun fatalities without having the wild knee jerk reactions that seem to pop up.

I respect a persons right to not like guns. I would like my rights to a law abiding gun owner respected as well. Some here fail to realize that some people shoot for sport. Some people like to shoot an AR-15, AK-47, Glock, etc. Just like some like fast cars. Or fancy clothes or shoes. I consider myself a logical and rational person, maybe too much so at times. But if 100 people get bit by a Pitbull and 2 by poodles, I sure as hell can't understand the logic behind banning poodles. And then claiming I'm not anti poodle.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Felons? What about all the non-convicted wife beaters out there? I remember years and years ago the guy that offed himself in an apartment close to mine one fine Sunday morning. He did that while the SWAT team was around his place after he had shot and killed his wife who had a protection order out against him. Of course, he was still allowed to have his guns. In fact, nobody would ever know whether he has any guns or not since there's no tracking of gun ownership. So people have guns that they legally acquired, then they show their violent side beating up their wives. The wives get a protection order which the violent gun owner will be served with but the guns? Well, nobody bothers to ask. So now you have a person that clearly is a danger to others still having his gun - and not too rarely - using it to kill. Oh, and even felons will have their guns since, again, nobody knows whether they own any or have ever acquired any - legally or otherwise.

Doesn't that fall under the Domestic Violence Offender Gun Ban?

[Darnell 8,479]

in Texas - we had voluntary gun safety courses . But I remember my Dad telling me straight up - you can't go deer hunting until you pass the safety course...

I'd lean with Spooky on this for gun licensing irrespective of CCA - to start with mental background checks, then criminal background checks then whatever more each state wanted.

I'm an IT maven and know how to make a real-time system for over-the-phone instant checking with fax-report retrievals for any licensed gun dealer- heck - me and my krewe pitched such a system back in 2001 and the Feds thanked us for our time and never, ever talked with us again. Seemed a funding problem then, never getting resolved, and I not feel like engaging and paying a lobbyist to make it happen.

I don't care about the amount of work required to accumulate the data into a national clearing house as long as the work wasn't done by H1-B workers or overseas remote progamming teams.

Spooks - a sidenote - real poodles are hunters and attack dogs. Many toy varieties seemingly got that bred out of them.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

in Texas - we had voluntary gun safety courses . But I remember my Dad telling me straight up - you can't go deer hunting until you pass the safety course...

I'd lean with Spooky on this for gun licensing irrespective of CCA - to start with mental background checks, then criminal background checks then whatever more each state wanted.

I'm an IT maven and know how to make a real-time system for over-the-phone instant checking with fax-report retrievals for any licensed gun dealer- heck - me and my krewe pitched such a system back in 2001 and the Feds thanked us for our time and never, ever talked with us again. Seemed a funding problem then, never getting resolved, and I not feel like engaging and paying a lobbyist to make it happen.

I don't care about the amount of work required to accumulate the data into a national clearing house as long as the work wasn't done by H1-B workers or overseas remote progamming teams.

Spooks - a sidenote - real poodles are hunters and attack dogs. Many toy varieties seemingly got that bred out of them.

I have to believe that there is a way to implement this more thorough checking process. And I'll add that those convicted of certain crimes not be eligible for firearm ownership. The bad guys will always find a way to get guns, but it's not fair to penalize the majority of gun owners for the actions of the idiots. Let's get the idiots and hold them accountable wherever possible.

[Darnell 8,479]

I remember reading about some states in 2007 that had 'up to a month' for checking and clearances. We sent a team out then, thinking there would be some state-business - but that fell flat also - even when we suggested a flat 35 bucks per app clearance fee to be paid by the purchaser.

I haven't paid attention since then - heck I not even remember what my wife did this year to get her CCA permit, much less purchase her own gun....

[Teddy B 17,252]

I'm going to go out on a a limb a little bit here and probably draw the wrath of some of my fellow gun owners. I had to take driving lessons and pass a basic skills test in order to get a drivers license. I also have to get a DOT physical every 2 years in order to keep my Class A drivers license. If you want the Haz Mat endorsement, you have to retest for that every x years. I had to take x hours of classroom instruction and pass a test to get my real estate license. I also have to take x hours of continuing ed classes every 2 years to keep my license active. I had to take a test to get my hydraulics license. I have to take continuing ed classes to maintain my construction supervisors license. If I go to the local humane society and want to adopt a kitten, I get checked out and a visit is made to my home.

Now to guns. I think that Illinois is on the right track since they were forced to allow CC. You must pass a background check and you must take a safety course. To me, this is just common sense. Safety is number one with driving and with guns. I'm sure there are people who have purchased guns and carry them and more in danger of shooting themselves than anyone else. I have no problem with background checks and safety courses for first time gun buyers, rifles and shotguns included, not just handguns. A responsible gun owner knows his guns and how to maintain them. And practices SAFETY at all times. Treat every gun as if it were loaded, even when you know it isn't. NEVER point a gun at anyone or anything you do not intend to shoot. Not for fun, not for joking around, not for, Oh! just kidding. Guns and alcohol don't mix, just as drinking and driving don't mix.

Now the above paragraph probably has a few here foaming at the mouth. But you know what? I still have my Second Amendment rights and can legally own guns. My right isn't being infringed upon from my point of view. I know some will argue that driving is a privilege and gun ownership is a right, and I can respect that. But people need to be trained with some things, especially when misuse can endanger others lives. I can't operate a crane without a license. I'd hate to be working around someone who didn't have the basic competency skills, just as I wouldn't hunt with someone who had no experience or safety training. I don't think that just anyone can pick up a gun and know what to do unless they are taught proper safety practices and gun handling techniques. I was fortunate that I had all of this instilled in me at a young age. Guns aren't toys, just as a chain saw, etc in the hands of a moron can be dangerous.

I see mental health as a huge problem today. If I were to go completely berserk in an argument, my first thought would be to choke the livingfuck out of whoever was pissing me off. Shooting them wouldn't even enter my mind. I don't think that way. Ever. Maybe kids today have played too many video games. Maybe violence isn't real to them, I have no idea, something's not right. Mental health is part of the problem, and quite obviously so with the mass shootings. You have to be a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic to do that. Ditto for shooting someone in a movie theater for texting. There are a lot of fvcked up people out there. And here too.

This is full of common sense and logic, you've summed it up very well Spooks.

[Teddy B 17,252]

I agree about the Military and Law Enforcement, they just need to have a background check. I've had most of those for a long time. That's why I have no problem with safety courses and background checks. But then again, I've got nothing to hide either, so I don't worry about that. I think that we need to enforce the laws we already have. As far as I know, illegally having a gun is currently illegal. I think we need to take a closer look at what is happening with some of these young lunatics. I honestly believe that more can be done to reduce gun fatalities without having the wild knee jerk reactions that seem to pop up.

I respect a persons right to not like guns. I would like my rights to a law abiding gun owner respected as well. Some here fail to realize that some people shoot for sport. Some people like to shoot an AR-15, AK-47, Glock, etc. Just like some like fast cars. Or fancy clothes or shoes. I consider myself a logical and rational person, maybe too much so at times. But if 100 people get bit by a Pitbull and 2 by poodles, I sure as hell can't understand the logic behind banning poodles. And then claiming I'm not anti poodle.

If there are far more Pitbulls owned by more people and those Pitbulls serve a general purpose in society of protection and self defense, then there are logical reasons to keep the Pitbulls around. It also makes sense that there would be more incidents involving Pitbulls due to the larger number of them in our society. However there are problems and safety concerns with the Pitbulls that need to be addressed. Poodles do not serve a general purpose in society, they are ugly and make annoying yapping sounds. One person bit by a Poodle is one too many. They should be banned.

.