Too Much Evidence?

[Cheezees 1,514]

Waaaayyyy overkill! Send in a few bank statements maybe one from each quarter NOT 240 pages worth! 90 pages of medical and dental?? Cut that down to an example spanning time... And seriously, receipts for family photo sessions (20 pages) really? What the heck kind of silly evidences is that? Totally useless tree deaths there...

C'mon, use common sense, quality over quantity... There is no reason on earth that you need to submit 600 pages of evidence to prove you are living as husband and wife... That is just crazy... Edit, edit, edit...

Not to mention that receipts from a photo session is NOT close to being considered evidence of a bonafide marriage.

[rmarkwallace 7]

Yes, quality over quantity. A lot of back bank statements might be helpful if the sponsor's income fluctuates a lot. Statements from third parties? Maybe to help establish the face to face meeting, what else I don't know. Be careful about the tax return. If you married before December 31, you should file as married separate or joint, NOT single!!!!!! Single makes it look like you aren't commingling finances. The beneficiary can get a social security card marked "not valid for employment" so that she can file a joint tax return with you. You are either married or you are not, there is no middle ground!!!!

[UK_Fan 192]

Gosh, I feel like I sent in a note on a napkin, comparing to you haha. I'm not saying less is more, but in your situation it kinda is.

[lsrbigfoot 1]

Ok ... Just came home ... Thanks for feedback! There's quite a bit to digest here.

For the record, we have 21 months worth of bank statements since the AOS approval. Given an average of 8 pages per checking statement and 4 pages per savings statement, the numbers add up pretty quickly. Also, about the tax transcripts, all transcripts filed since our marriage were joint returns.

Personally, I prefer quality over quantity most of the time. However, certain i751-RFE related threads that I have read placed an emphasis on quantity, especially for financial evidence which appeared to be lacking for those cases (no offense). I've been dinged by an RFE before (years ago) ... even with lawyer's help it wasn't a good experience.

We will consider scaling back a little on the bank statements (quarterly), because agreeably 240 pages are ridiculous. We could scale back a little on the EOBs and maybe send the last statement for the year of coverage which shows both the the total deductible used and coverage dates ... we'll definitely will drop the family photo proofs. We also forgot to list in the post 125 pages of utility bills spanning 21 months (cell, light, water) which we can drop down to 40 (light and water).

[lsrbigfoot 1]

Send everything that you have. You don't want any reason to get an RFE. (Don't worry, no one gets an RFE demanding weak evidence). Your evidence looks great. Don't worry about affidavits - they are considered weak evidence. My package was about 2 inches thick with my cover letter and supporting documents. I did not include any photos, reservations, trips, or affidavits or anything that showed neither the comingling or funds nor joint living/address. But more is always better than less so keep what you have. I had my 10-year green card in 3 months flat.

If you are sending your package in soon, join the June 2014 filers group so you can ask advice and track the progress of other people who filed for removal when you did. Good luck!

Thanks! Should be sometime next week.

[Simeon 25]

Wanna know what the harm is? Put yourself in the shoes up the person receiving that. Their internal monologue: 'this idiot sent me ~1000 pages worth of junk? Jeez. I think I'll stick this one in the corner/lose one of their forms/stick them with a bogus RFE.' They're human. It makes sense to provide them with what they need, perhaps a bit more, but don't drown them in unnecessary papers.

This exact situation happened to me when I gave them all of my Skype logs. My case rotted in the queue for years, and monthly consulate inquiries went unheeded. I agree that OP is sending in too much documentation. Pick and choose the most concise way to represent your case, and be mindful of the recipient.

[Hypnos 6,576]

With regards to bank statements, I picked a month and then sent in that month's statement back for five years. 240 pages of bank statements is, frankly, ridiculous.

From memory I believe I sent in a total of just over 100 pages, and that included the USCIS forms, too.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Hypnos

[NickD 203]

First time I looked at this, got the weird idea that the USCIS considers a valid happy marriage by the couple paying bills and taxes together. Really no concern that when a couple says, "I do", you are automatically liable for each others bills. In a divorce court, whoever's name is on the title doesn't make a bit of difference, with no fault divorce laws, a 50-50 split. If your spouse gets sick or has an accident, you are liable for those bills, so what difference does it make if both your names are on a health or life insurance policy?

But don't use logic with the USCIS, have to follow their rules, and the key word is Joint! During our AOS, the key word was Money, in that I had enough to support my new wife and stepdaughter. If its joint you want, joint you will get.

First thing was my home title and adding my wife's name to it. Attorneys wanted 500 bucks for this little chore, but after some searching found the form and filled it out myself. Register of deeds, said I did a better job than any attorney, but still cost me ten bucks. Tax form was a nightmare, she helped me fill that out, no charge for this. Then vehicles, three all in my name, 100 bucks for each to change the title. Elected to get rid of the oldest one and got a new car in both our names. Bank statements four of them, just sent in the last statements and on all this stuff used a yellow highlighter just for our joint name, insurance policies, bills, the same thing. Feel its better to keep it short and sweet and easy for the officer.

Letters of affidavits, want two, a relative, co-worker, friend, and neighbor were our choices, couldn't make up our minds, so sent in four. Could have received another one from the judge that married, yes I married this couple, still happily married, but maybe going too far.

What really got to me with the I-751 is the number of loopholes to get out of it. If my wife and I did split, no problems for her, quit her job, sold her home to come here, nothing to go back to. Or if she asked me a question, and I didn't answer it, ignoring her, also a form of abuse, don't have to beat them anymore.

Major problem with had with the I-751, idiots sent it to the wrong service center, and no one there capable of tracing it or even asking for another copy. Senator Fiengold helped us with this, but after a year of them screwing around, want a yearly update, so sent that. In the meantime, had to get an I-551 stamp in my wife's foreign passport book to keep her legal. Another 450 mile drive.

In the meantime, we also filled out the N-400, wanted all this same joint evidence again? Then why another 50 page double sided copy of my divorce papers, proof of US citizenship, and yet another copy of our marriage certificate. How do they think my wife got an condition green card in the first place.

Whenever I read their paper reduction act, shake my head. She told me when she saw her file, was 3 1/2" thick!

[lsrbigfoot 1]

No need for hundreds of pages of bank statements. From approval of GC, 1 bank statement every 3-4 months to cover through the time you apply for ROC. And yes, all pages of the bank statements need to be sent in, not just the first page.

Thanks! I will consider risk sending just quarterly statements, knowing that they already have a copy of joint property ownership from the AOS. Should the application get RFE'd for the remaining monthly statements, it will be a dirty shame given the other evidence that will be submitted here. I was just wandering though, where did 3-4 month guideline for bank statements come from?

Edited June 10, 2014 by lsrbigfoot

[christeen 966]

You will not get an RFE for more bank statements...

[Kathryn41 3,205]

We sent in several hundred pages as well - something from every category they suggested except for children (we have none together) and letters of affidavits; we figured we had enough quality documentation that we didn't need those. It does add up quickly. It had been 4 years (took 22 months to process my AOS and the the following nearly 24 months of conditional status) since I applied for my green card so I figured if they wanted to make me wait 4 years before granting me permanent status, then they were darn well going to see documents from every one of those 4 years!

I submitted full quarterly statements for each year from each of the joint accounts - and we have several. I included full quarterly statements for each year from each jointly held credit card. I included tax transcripts for each year - and in one year we had even been audited by the IRS, so I sent in the audit request and decision addressed to both of us (who knew being audited by the IRS could be a benefit! Oh - it did go in our favour). I submitted our wills. I submitted quarterly statements from joint bills paid. Since I was not on the house title at that time, I highlighted the mortgage payments that came out of our joint checking account each month. I included proof of household bills and maintenance contracts (eg HVAC, lawn, termite protection, etc.) that I had signed for our property. I included joint proof of insurance and vehicle registrations for both cars - for each year, along with each of our driver's licenses showing us at the same address. I included each year's health insurance card, plus samples of medical and dental bills/receipts showing coverage for me under his employment related health insurance. I included his listing me as emergency contact with his employer. I included veterinary records showing joint ownership of our cats; documents listing each other as beneficiaries on each of our various pension plans; flight itineraries showing us travelling together to attend each others family occasions paid for by the same credit card - and supported by photographs showing us at the event with each others families. I also included examples of my ongoing correspondence between my step-daughter and grand-children calling me Nana Kathryn. I hope they read each and every single page - I highlighted all of the titles, dates and any relevant information to help them 'find' the supporting information easily - because I felt if they needed 'proof', well by golly, they were going to get proof! I did include a 'table of contents' listing every thing and broken down into the appropriate categories - financial, household, vehicles, insurance, family, travel, etc.

That being said, i would cut down your 'volume' in certain areas such as the bank accounts and credit card statements to show quarterly submissions instead of monthly submissions. Get your proof in a variety of different areas with samples taken quarterly from your years together, rather than using lots of the same documents.

Good luck!

Edited June 11, 2014 by Kathryn41

[novedsac 355]

If you've had a joint account for, say, two years … what does submitting 24 monthly statements demonstrate that the first and last statement cannot show?

[Hypnos 6,576]

That you hate trees.

[NickD 203]

In dealing with several certifying governmental agencies, always met with a board, find the USCIS unique in this respect, your life depends on one individual. And no telling which side of the bed that person got up from that morning.

Sending in too much evidence can be just as bad as not sending in enough, get the idea you are trying to cover something up. With our long delays in I-751 processing, not our fault by theirs. In regards to the like of bank statements, only wanted to see the latest ONE, also a tax return, tax transcripts are the best, only one sheet of paper.

Can only visualize if you send in a whole stack of paper, officer will look at it and say, what the hell is this. Take your pile and toss it in a stack someplace. Make an effort to keep their jobs simple and well organized. And just because you already sent in evidence before, and they request the same evidence again, you better well do it or your application will be rejected.

[huy_le 32]

Well, one advice for you when it comes to USCIS, "Never is too much". Just send all of it. Let them have no reason to delay your application.