UAE beats Americans' environmental harm

[Robor007 0]

This article alleges that we need more pollution to counter the greenhouse effect...? That's a joke, right? Either way, I don't buy it. This planet was around a long time before man and these alleged 'protective' man-made pollutants. The solution is to reduce the cause, not cloak the planet in pollution.

The article doesn't allege that, nor am I advocating polluting the air. However the fact that we have cleaner air now than we did in the '80s is partly accountable for the recent increase in global warming.

Having cleaner air now than in the '80's *may* be partly accountable for the recent increase in global warming. From what I got out of that article more studies need to be done to confirm that *theory*. Either way, I think it's pointless because it's obvious the solution isn't to go back to polluting the air. The solution is to reduce the cause of global warming which is already known but not being acted upon.

[anya-D 8]

My little contribution are

I never just run water without useing it.. even at the mall or anyother place where there's water left running I turn it off for them - never yurn on water full speed - just enough for me to use (I dont know how to explain.. hope i get my point cross)

I do not turn on the light if I'm not int he room - just turn on the one I will use and turn it off when i leave...I'm actually afraid of the dark so I hope that using a nightlight is using less energy

I try to recycle any bags i got - if i buy little stuff and I can put it in my bag i dont need a bg.. or if i can put them together (from different shop) then I would.. I keep the bags for future re-use

We dont have recycle so I try to put recycle thing in one bag so they can sort it though easier (Bram asked for recycle bucket but it never came.. several times already)

I try use ragged towel instead of paper towel to clean

I can use fan instead of air-con.. actually i grow up with fan so i like fan better anyway.. we keep our house cool in winter and just put more cloth on...

In thaialnd there's 95 gas (here i use 87??? dont rememember) which suppost to creat the least pollution - I cant really choose it here but my car is a 4 cylinder and i try to do what ever it needs for it to use less gas and burn better

I dont know what else.. I know it's a small stuff.. hope it does make a different..

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Well, I just think it's real convenient to just talk about it and not do anything about it. I see so many people that use this forum discussing all of these "GLOBAL WARMING" issues but what are YOU actually doing about it? Posting on a message board?

It's easy to cut and paste articles, but how many of you that talk about global warming are using public transportation rather than giving excuses why you can't? Or, who is using sacks instead of paper/plastic bags at the store? Ooooh...big air conditioned malls you say? Are you ready to get rid of your home central air? If not, I bet you have been known to shop at one of these big air conditioned malls. Instead, we are just sitting at our fairly new computers which get replaced every two years (I wonder what kind of footprint all those old crts and cpus leave...think of all the unrecycled plastic!).

The point is, if you want to affect change, you must be willing to make sacrifices yourselves. Rather than rehashing the same stale global warming rhetoric, list some steps you may be taking to help the environment or leave a smaller footprint.

I think there's several issues Matt that you're combining into one issue. The first issue is the public's opinion or acceptance of legitimate science. For whatever strange reason, particularly in this country, science has now become publicly debatable and everyday Joe Schmoe's feel confident about arguing over the science behind the theory, be it evolution or global warming. So inevitably, as you will see articles and news stories in the media, these discussions find their way to public forums like this.

As Alex and I have pointed out earlier in this post, the issue isn't whether or not we humans use up energy, but whether the consumption of the energy is excessive to the detriment of our quality of life or the general attitude that one is entitled to use up natural resources as long as they pay for it. So, based on the original article of this post, the US statistically out produces more pollution and uses up more natural resources per capita than all other nations. China recently has surpassed us with emissions. Why is that so? Why do we use up more per American than other people around the world? Could we do better at reducing our consumption?

Perhaps you fall in the category of Americans who feel entitled to consume and pollute as long as you pay for it with your money. If you do have that attitude then really there's no point in arguing over these issues. I personally believe we have a responsability towards this planet and all of its inhabitants, to minimize our consumption of natural resources and to support ways which promote sustainability. It's about environmental conservation and in turn perserving a quality of life for my children and my children's children, Matt - not sure why that escapes you.

Perfect response...with that said, re-read my post.

It's about environmental conservation and in turn perserving a quality of life for my children and my children's children

Again, I ask you, what are you doing to preserve a "quality of life" for your children? What steps do you take to reduce energy consumption? Certainly, you are concerned with it but to what extent? Are you willing to make necessary changes to help foster change? I never said or implied that I am one of the "I pay for it..." crowd. My only complaint was it's really easy to cut and paste articles condemning emissions but what are YOU or OTHERS that are complaining about it actually doing yourselves to stem the tide of "global warming"? It's like the guy who says "my vote doesn't count," so he doesn't vote...unless you are willing to make sacrifices yourself, I don't see the point...change has to start one individual at a time.

So, I ask you again, what do you do to conserve? You've already mentioned you drive a four-cylinder car...do you think that's enough? I'm merely inquiring...I think this would make a more productive post. Nothing escapes me...I'm just asking.

Again, Matt, the issue has more to do with attitude towards the environment than anything. I recycle as much as I can at home - rinsing out empty cans, bottles, paper and cardboard. I use flourescent bulbs wherever possible. I limit my driving and plan routes when running errands. I keep the heater and AC off for most of the year and try to set it to minimize use. When I owned a house, I signed up to get my electricity from an energy supplier that harnesses geo-thermal energy (which, btw, the local energy companies lobbied to prohibit customers from selecting outside sources in the future). I also had a composter so that I wasn't washing leftover foods down the disposal (eggshells, melon rinds, cut grass and leaves). Could I do more? Certainly, but IMO what is equally important is having the right attitude - that I'm not entitled to just consume energy as I wish.

Also, I had (have) a dream of starting up a company with my younger brother (he's a chemical engineer) to sell and install photovoltaic units for homes - converting homes to be partially or completely running off of solar energy. I don't know if I'll ever be able to put the time or money into doing it, but I believe there is a market out there for it and whoever can ambitiously sell the public on that idea will become the next Bill Gates.

But regardless of what I do or can do, that doesn't negate the issues surrounding these debates. People continue to debate the legitimacy of science - which baffles me, and then those Americans who have the attitude that they have no responsibility towards environmental conservation - I just don't get it.

Edited January 16, 2007 by Steven_and_Jinky

[Robor007 0]

Well, I just think it's real convenient to just talk about it and not do anything about it. I see so many people that use this forum discussing all of these "GLOBAL WARMING" issues but what are YOU actually doing about it? Posting on a message board?

It's easy to cut and paste articles, but how many of you that talk about global warming are using public transportation rather than giving excuses why you can't? Or, who is using sacks instead of paper/plastic bags at the store? Ooooh...big air conditioned malls you say? Are you ready to get rid of your home central air? If not, I bet you have been known to shop at one of these big air conditioned malls. Instead, we are just sitting at our fairly new computers which get replaced every two years (I wonder what kind of footprint all those old crts and cpus leave...think of all the unrecycled plastic!).

The point is, if you want to affect change, you must be willing to make sacrifices yourselves. Rather than rehashing the same stale global warming rhetoric, list some steps you may be taking to help the environment or leave a smaller footprint.

You're going to extremes here. Being concerned and doing something about your global 'footprint' doesn't mean going back to the dark ages. That was one of the biggest things I got out of 'An Inconvenient Truth' (other than a shocking slap of reality). If everyone makes a little effort it will make a big difference. The problem is very few are aware of the problem and even fewer are doing anything. You ask what you can do? LOOK HERE!

What do I do myself...? All of my light bulbs are of the CFL type and I shut them all off when I'm out. I replaced my 22" CRT with a 20" LCD. I replace my air filter every 2 months (3 month filters). I keep my blinds closed to help keep my place cool and run the A/C less. I shut off the shower when I'm lathering. I only do full loads of laundry/dishwasher. I drive a small car (VW GTI = ~ 23MPG around town) and keep it maintained. I ride with friends for weekend activities.

And I'm well aware that a lot of this is common sense on how to save money by being more efficient but that's the idea. Sadly that common sense just isn't that common. You see car commercials on TV here and they always advertise how much horsepower the car has then mention it's still got 'XX highway MPG'. Like most of us spend most of our time driving at highway speeds. Right. Horsepower in these modern cars is getting crazy. Who needs a 300HP sedan? I hope there is less focus on power and more focus on fuel efficiency soon.

[mrc 0]

Well, I just think it's real convenient to just talk about it and not do anything about it. I see so many people that use this forum discussing all of these "GLOBAL WARMING" issues but what are YOU actually doing about it? Posting on a message board?

It's easy to cut and paste articles, but how many of you that talk about global warming are using public transportation rather than giving excuses why you can't? Or, who is using sacks instead of paper/plastic bags at the store? Ooooh...big air conditioned malls you say? Are you ready to get rid of your home central air? If not, I bet you have been known to shop at one of these big air conditioned malls. Instead, we are just sitting at our fairly new computers which get replaced every two years (I wonder what kind of footprint all those old crts and cpus leave...think of all the unrecycled plastic!).

The point is, if you want to affect change, you must be willing to make sacrifices yourselves. Rather than rehashing the same stale global warming rhetoric, list some steps you may be taking to help the environment or leave a smaller footprint.

You're going to extremes here. Being concerned and doing something about your global 'footprint' doesn't mean going back to the dark ages. That was one of the biggest things I got out of 'An Inconvenient Truth' (other than a shocking slap of reality). If everyone makes a little effort it will make a big difference. The problem is very few are aware of the problem and even fewer are doing anything. You ask what you can do? LOOK HERE!

What do I do myself...? All of my light bulbs are of the CFL type and I shut them all off when I'm out. I replaced my 22" CRT with a 20" LCD. I replace my air filter every 2 months (3 month filters). I keep my blinds closed to help keep my place cool and run the A/C less. I shut off the shower when I'm lathering. I only do full loads of laundry/dishwasher. I drive a small car (VW GTI = ~ 23MPG around town) and keep it maintained. I ride with friends for weekend activities.

And I'm well aware that a lot of this is common sense on how to save money by being more efficient but that's the idea. Sadly that common sense just isn't that common. You see car commercials on TV here and they always advertise how much horsepower the car has then mention it's still got 'XX highway MPG'. Like most of us spend most of our time driving at highway speeds. Right. Horsepower in these modern cars is getting crazy. Who needs a 300HP sedan? I hope there is less focus on power and more focus on fuel efficiency soon.

How am I going to extremes? Asking what your contribution to decreasing energy consumption and pollution isn't going to the extremes. I'm certainly not asking what I can do...I know what I can do. I'm asking what others do...let's not just identify problems but list solutions. If you want to be productive and affect change, doesn't that make much more sense?

[Robor007 0]

How am I going to extremes? Asking what your contribution to decreasing energy consumption and pollution isn't going to the extremes. I'm certainly not asking what I can do...I know what I can do. I'm asking what others do...let's not just identify problems but list solutions. If you want to be productive and affect change, doesn't that make much more sense?

I would consider the following going to extremes...

"(mrc @ Jan 16 2007, 02:42 PM)]

who is using sacks instead of paper/plastic bags at the store? Ooooh...big air conditioned malls you say? Are you ready to get rid of your home central air? If not, I bet you have been known to shop at one of these big air conditioned malls. Instead, we are just sitting at our fairly new computers which get replaced every two years (I wonder what kind of footprint all those old crts and cpus leave...think of all the unrecycled plastic"

Identifying problems is how to create solutions to the problems. In my reply I provided a link as to what everyone can do. This is it again: What you can do! I would also suggest renting this DVD. It is a real eye opener.

Edited January 16, 2007 by Robor007

[mrc 0]

How am I going to extremes? Asking what your contribution to decreasing energy consumption and pollution isn't going to the extremes. I'm certainly not asking what I can do...I know what I can do. I'm asking what others do...let's not just identify problems but list solutions. If you want to be productive and affect change, doesn't that make much more sense?

I would consider the following going to extremes...

"(mrc @ Jan 16 2007, 02:42 PM)]

who is using sacks instead of paper/plastic bags at the store? Ooooh...big air conditioned malls you say? Are you ready to get rid of your home central air? If not, I bet you have been known to shop at one of these big air conditioned malls. Instead, we are just sitting at our fairly new computers which get replaced every two years (I wonder what kind of footprint all those old crts and cpus leave...think of all the unrecycled plastic"

Identifying problems is how to create solutions to the problems. In my reply I provided a link as to what everyone can do. This is it again: What you can do! I would also suggest renting this DVD. It is a real eye opener.

I don't think using sacks to transport groceries instead of plastic bags is a stretch. Lots of people do it...they even sell environmental friendly bags for this. These are things that contribute heavily to the "footprint" that people don't realize day-to-day. It's a simple fact.

I'll pass on the DVD for now...

Edited January 16, 2007 by mrc

[Robor007 0]

I don't think using sacks to transport groceries instead of plastic bags is a stretch. Lots of people do it...they even sell environmental friendly bags for this. These are things that contribute heavily to the "footprint" that people don't realize day-to-day. It's a simple fact.

I'll pass on the DVD for now...

Now you're talking semantics. Do you still suggest I stop using my central A/C, driving my car, not shop in malls, and never get a new computer? As to the bags, sure enviro-friendly sacks make sense but plastic grocery bags can be re-used for other things or recycled. Every grocery store I go to has a bin for recycling used bags right up front.

May I ask you why you'll pass on the DVD? I'm not trying to be argumentative here but I take this as the 'head in the sand' solution that's so prominent here in the US.

[mrc 0]

I don't think using sacks to transport groceries instead of plastic bags is a stretch. Lots of people do it...they even sell environmental friendly bags for this. These are things that contribute heavily to the "footprint" that people don't realize day-to-day. It's a simple fact.

I'll pass on the DVD for now...

Now you're talking semantics. Do you still suggest I stop using my central A/C, driving my car, not shop in malls, and never get a new computer? As to the bags, sure enviro-friendly sacks make sense but plastic grocery bags can be re-used for other things or recycled. Every grocery store I go to has a bin for recycling used bags right up front.

May I ask you why you'll pass on the DVD? I'm not trying to be argumentative here but I take this as the 'head in the sand' solution that's so prominent here in the US.

Sure, you can ask. I just don't care to watch that dvd. I'll read/watch multiple sources and gather my own information and make my own decision. I don't need a movie producer to tell me what I should think. I may watch it at some point, but realize that by watching that, you're watching whatever that producer wants you to see. Just because it's on a dvd doesn't make it factual and completely true. Someone has an agenda...that's just my opinion. I'll form my own from multiple sources. I don't need that dvd to open my eyes...they never closed.

I've been angry for years. I've never owned a car with more than four cylinders and I hate large vehicles...most of them are totally unnecessary. People are wasteful...we are a throwaway society. That's why we have such cheap products here that are made in China. We are a nation of consumers, not manufacturers. Of course there's going to be a trade deficit...we don't make as much as we once did and we use so much more. Things aren't made to be replaceable nowadays...they are made to be used and thrown away and repurchased.

What scares me is that unless we find some sort of alternate energy source real soon, it will only get worse. Only 8 percent of the Chinese population owns a vehicle...just wait until that number jumps considerably. It's totally unregulated...you think we leave a large footprint? Give it about ten years...

At any rate, we do need to change the way we think. We aren't entitled to anything...we are privileged. I am just as tired as everyone else about the "It's my money, I can do what I want" crowd. I'm certainly not one of them.

[Robor007 0]

I don't think using sacks to transport groceries instead of plastic bags is a stretch. Lots of people do it...they even sell environmental friendly bags for this. These are things that contribute heavily to the "footprint" that people don't realize day-to-day. It's a simple fact.

I'll pass on the DVD for now...

Now you're talking semantics. Do you still suggest I stop using my central A/C, driving my car, not shop in malls, and never get a new computer? As to the bags, sure enviro-friendly sacks make sense but plastic grocery bags can be re-used for other things or recycled. Every grocery store I go to has a bin for recycling used bags right up front.

May I ask you why you'll pass on the DVD? I'm not trying to be argumentative here but I take this as the 'head in the sand' solution that's so prominent here in the US.

Sure, you can ask. I just don't care to watch that dvd. I'll read/watch multiple sources and gather my own information and make my own decision. I don't need a movie producer to tell me what I should think. I may watch it at some point, but realize that by watching that, you're watching whatever that producer wants you to see. Just because it's on a dvd doesn't make it factual and completely true. Someone has an agenda...that's just my opinion. I'll form my own from multiple sources. I don't need that dvd to open my eyes...they never closed.

I've been angry for years. I've never owned a car with more than four cylinders and I hate large vehicles...most of them are totally unnecessary. People are wasteful...we are a throwaway society. That's why we have such cheap products here that are made in China. We are a nation of consumers, not manufacturers. Of course there's going to be a trade deficit...we don't make as much as we once did and we use so much more. Things aren't made to be replaceable nowadays...they are made to be used and thrown away and repurchased.

What scares me is that unless we find some sort of alternate energy source real soon, it will only get worse. Only 8 percent of the Chinese population owns a vehicle...just wait until that number jumps considerably. It's totally unregulated...you think we leave a large footprint? Give it about ten years...

At any rate, we do need to change the way we think. We aren't entitled to anything...we are privileged. I am just as tired as everyone else about the "It's my money, I can do what I want" crowd. I'm certainly not one of them.

Believe it or not I am in 100% agreement with absolutely everything you wrote here.

Just about everything is disposable anymore. I was over at my friends house and they were cutting on some sort of plastic sheet right on their counter. I didn't know they had disposable cutting plastic sheets. I told them, 'that's the ultimate of laziness!'.

Here's a situation that applies directly to your comments. I work in IT. One of our fields sales reps calls to say his 'all-in-one' printer/fax/scanner isn't working. It had been making grinding noises but now it's totally dead. He asked where to take it for repairs. I what kind it was. Turns out it's an HP inkjet model (about $200). Not only would it not be worth it to pay by the hour for repair, no one (that I know of) will even work on an inkjet. The solution? You already know it. Throw it away and get another one! And yeah, I know that doesn't only apply here but it's just an example of how society is today.

I would give the DVD a chance though, if for nothing more than the 'then vs. now' images of glaciers around the world and ice caps. There is some sensationalism in it but I honestly think Gore has the agenda of global warming as the top priority. There are a few jabs at the current administration and the election results of 2004 but they are more light humor than outright blame.

[bob_bonner 0]

This article alleges that we need more pollution to counter the greenhouse effect...? That's a joke, right? Either way, I don't buy it. This planet was around a long time before man and these alleged 'protective' man-made pollutants. The solution is to reduce the cause, not cloak the planet in pollution.

The article doesn't allege that, nor am I advocating polluting the air. However the fact that we have cleaner air now than we did in the '80s is partly accountable for the recent increase in global warming.

Having cleaner air now than in the '80's *may* be partly accountable for the recent increase in global warming. From what I got out of that article more studies need to be done to confirm that *theory*. Either way, I think it's pointless because it's obvious the solution isn't to go back to polluting the air. The solution is to reduce the cause of global warming which is already known but not being acted upon.

Eh? First you poo-poo my claim and ask me to provide a reference to a reputable scientific journal. I do that, and then you turn around and say "hey, it's only a *theory*". Guess what? Everything is a theory. That global warming is man-made is also a theory. The only irrefutable "fact" is global warming itself.