Sonic And Chili's Announce No-Gun Policies

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

It's not a bs term, gun enthusiasts like to make everyone think it is to deflect off of the real issue.

I'm still waiting for NB, or anyone else, to give me any good reason why I should change my mind on the belief that AR-15's serve no legitimate purpose to the general public that other guns don't already serve.

I thought I had. An Ar-15 is no or more less deadly than any other weapon.

We have done this a gazillion times. Let's start a TM/GZ thread or something.

[Boiler 45,434]

AR 15 is not an assault rifle, it is very very difficult to buy an assault rifle.

It is a semi automatic rifle that unless it is pink looks bad to some.

This is a Ruger Ranch rifle, shoots the same ammo and for all practical purposes can do the same amount of damage as a AR15, just looks more normal.

AR 15 can be used for exactly the same purpose, a lot of people like using them for small game at short to medium distances.

My guess like with most firearms that their main use if at the range for people who like target shooting.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Boiler

[Teddy B 17,252]

It was a term invented in the late 1980s based on how scary a gun looks…I'm not joking.

So? The whole attraction to these weapons is how scary they look and how much they can kill. You gun enthusiasts like to use the smoke screen about how they're not really assault weapons and laugh at people for being frightened by the way they look, but that's exactly why the nuts who go on murdering sprees chose them, it's all about the terror.

Teddy - for general pubic/public usage -

I not see the need for an AR-15.

However - for non-pubic/non-public usage -

I'd want an AR-15 if'n the other guy in the zombie apocalypse had an AR-15 - as then we could share ammo and clips and whatnots.

Still - the same can be said for Maserati's and Ferrari owners - why get one when a honda does the same job - albeit slower ? Because they can --- they have the money and the interest...

Thank you D for being honest.

Again, the car/gun comparison doesn't really float.

I thought I had. An Ar-15 is no or more less deadly than any other weapon.

We have done this a gazillion times. Let's start a TM/GZ thread or something.

Nice dodge.

[Boiler 45,434]

So? The whole attraction to these weapons is how scary they look and how much they can kill.

I never thought of them as looking scary, I do not know anyone who one that bought one because of that. Their killing capacity is not a function of their looks, which as has been repeatedly pointed out to you is just a styling issue.

A sawn off shotgun, now that suggests scary to me. Or a druggie with a machete.

[Sousuke 1,214]

So? The whole attraction to these weapons is how scary they look and how much they can kill. You gun enthusiasts like to use the smoke screen about how they're not really assault weapons and laugh at people for being frightened by the way they look, but that's exactly why the nuts who go on murdering sprees chose them, it's all about the terror.

I'm saying I don't even buy the term assault weapon; its bogus. (oh this has a pistol grip - its an assault weapon)

Guess what? Not all AR 15s are assault weapons by definition.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Brown Dwarf

[Teddy B 17,252]

I never thought of them as looking scary, I do not know anyone who one that bought one because of that. Their killing capacity is not a function of their looks, which as has been repeatedly pointed out to you is just a styling issue.

A sawn off shotgun, now that suggests scary to me. Or a druggie with a machete.

Bolded part, sorry I simply don't believe that statement. Bigger and badder is what it's all about with weapons. The AR has plenty of killing capacity, coupled with it's military style looks, it's got all the bang for the buck that anyone looking to instill fear into people would need. Again, there is no other purpose for these types of weapons other than terror and killing.

[Sousuke 1,214]

Bolded part, sorry I simply don't believe that statement. Bigger and badder is what it's all about with weapons. The AR has plenty of killing capacity, coupled with it's military style looks, it's got all the bang for the buck that anyone looking to instill fear into people would need. Again, there is no other purpose for these types of weapons other than terror and killing.

This is bigger and badder than an AR15. Guess what? Not an assault weapon!

[Boiler 45,434]

So bigger is badder. Which one of these is fired by an AR 15.

[Teddy B 17,252]

I'm saying I don't even buy the term assault weapon; its bogus. (oh this has a pistol grip - its an assault weapon)

Guess what? Not all AR 15s are assault weapons by definition.

This is exactly what I'm talking about here with the smoke screen you gun enthusiasts like to use. An Ar-15 isn't really an assault weapon. Who really cares?? It's only purpose is to look bad and kill, that combination is what makes it the gun of choice by whackos everywhere. I asked a question about what other purpose an AR-15 serves the average gun owner that can't be served by any other gun already out there. So far the only one with an honest answer is Darnell. The rest of you are dancing around the issue so fast I'm surprised you haven't twisted an ankle.

If all AR-15's looked like this, do you honestly think they would be the weapon of choice used in mass killings?

[Teddy B 17,252]

This is bigger and badder than an AR15. Guess what? Not an assault weapon!

So bigger is badder. Which one of these is fired by an AR 15.

The both of you are completely off point now, but to be expected.

[GandD 5,966]

This is bigger and badder than an AR15. Guess what? Not an assault weapon!

What caliber is that? What is it's purpose?

[Sousuke 1,214]

The both of you are completely off point now, but to be expected.

No you don't want hear the truth sadly. Pink plastic isn't going to change anything.

What caliber is that? What is it's purpose?

Its a .308. It was the main battle rifle of the US through to the early part of the Vietnam war.

[Teddy B 17,252]

No you don't want hear the truth sadly. Pink plastic isn't going to change anything.

The truth? I know there are more dangerous guns being sold than the AR-15. Ones that shoot bigger and badder bullets and can rip a man's head clear off, yeah that's true. But what's also true is that those aren't the guns being used for these mass killings, the ever so feeble AR-15's are being used, almost exclusively. Wonder why that is? Care to have a delve at the truth?

[Boiler 45,434]

Date

Location

Deaths

Weapon(s) Used

January 15, 2013

Hazard Community and Technical College in Hazard, Kentucky

Two

Unidentified semi-automatic pistol

December 14, 2012

Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

26

Bushmaster semi-automatic rifle, .223 caliber

December 11, 2012

Clackamas Town Center, Oregon

two

AR 15 style rifle, .223 caliber

October 21, 2012

Azana Day Spa in Brookfield, Wisconsin

three

Unidentified semi-automatic handgun, .40 caliber

September 27, 2012

Accent Signage Systems in Minneapolis, Minnesota

Five

Glock semi-automatic pistol, 9 mm caliber

August 5, 2012

Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin

Six

Springfield XD (M) semi-automatic pistol, 9 mm caliber

July 20, 2012

Movie theater in Aurora, Colorado

12

Two Glock Model 22 semi-automatic pistols, .40 caliber; Smith & Wesson M&P15 AR 15 style rifle, .223 caliber; and Remington Model 870 shotgun, 12 gauge

May 29, 2012

Cafe Racer Espresso in Seattle, Washington

Five

Para-ordnance semi-automatic pistol, .45 caliber

April 6, 2012

Tulsa, Oklahoma

Three

Weapons undetermined

April 2, 2012

Oikos University in Oakland, California

Seven

Unidentified semi-automatic pistol, .45 caliber

February 27, 2012

Chardon High School in Chardon, Ohio

Three

Ruger MK III semi-automatic handgun, .22 caliber, and knife

October 14, 2011

Salon Meritage in Seal Beach, California

Eight

Springfield Arms semi-automatic pistol, 9 mm caliber; Heckler & Koch semi-automatic pistol, 9 mm caliber; and Smith & Wesson semi-automatic pistol, .44 magnum caliber

September 6, 2011

IHOP restaurant in Carson City, Nevada

Five

AK47 variant semi-automatic rifle, 7.62x39 caliber

July 7, 2011

Grand Rapids, Michigan

Seven

Glock semi-automatic pistol, 9 mm caliber

May 10, 2011

San Jose State University in San Jose, California

Three

Weapons undetermined

January 8, 2011

Safeway market in Tucson, Arizona

Six

Glock semi-automatic pistol, 9 mm caliber

January 5, 2011

Millard South High School in Omaha, Nebraska

two

Glock pistol, .40-caliber

August 3, 2010

Hartford Beer Distributor in Manchester, Connecticut

Nine

Two Ruger SR9 semi-automatic pistols, 9 mm caliber

February 12, 2010

University of Alabama in Huntsville, Alabama

Three

Unidentified 9 mm handgun

November 5, 2009

Foot Hood army base in Texas

13

FN Five-Seven semi-automatic pistol, 5.57 mm caliber (equivalent of .223 caliber), and Smith & Wesson revolver pistol, .357 magnum caliber

April 3, 2009

Immigration center in Binghamton, New York

13

Beretta 92FS Vertec semi-automatic pistol, 9 mm caliber, and Beretta Px4 semi-automatic pistol, .45 caliber

March 29, 2009

Pinelake Health and Rehab nursing home in Carthage, North Carolina

Eight

Unidentified revolver pistol, .357 magnum caliber; unidentified semi-automatic pistol, 22 magnum caliber; and Winchester 1300 shotgun, 12 gauge

March 24, 2009

Private townhouse in Santa Clara, California

Six

Two unidentified semi-automatic handguns, .45 caliber

December 24, 2008

Private home in Corvina, California

Nine

Four unidentified semi-automatic handguns, 9 mm caliber, and a flamethrower

September 2, 2008

Silver Creek Drive and nearby streets in Alger, Washington

Six

Weapon unidentified

June 25, 2008

Atlantis Plastics in Henderson, Kentucky

Five

Hi-Point .45 ACP pistol, .45-caliber

February 14, 2008

Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, Illinois

Six

Glock Model 19 semi-automatic pistol, 9 mm caliber; Kurz Sig Sauer P232 semi-automatic pistol, 9 mm caliber; and Hi-Point CF380, .380 caliber

February 8, 2008

Louisiana Technical College in Baton Rouge, Louisiana

Two

.357 revolver

February 7, 2008

City Hall in Kirkwood, Missouri

Six

Smith & Wesson Model 29 revolver pistol, .44 magnum caliber, and Smith & Wesson semi-automatic pistol, .40 caliber

February 2, 2008

Brookside Marketplace shopping center in Chicago, Illinois

Five

Glock semi-automatic pistol, .40 caliber

December 24, 2007

Private home in Carnation, Washington

Six

Weapon undetermined

December 9, 2007

Youth With a Mission center in Arvada, Colorado and New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado

Four

Bushmaster XM 15 semi-automatic rifle, .223 caliber; Beretta handgun, .40 caliber; and Springfield Armory pistol, 9 mm caliber

December 5, 2007

Westroads Mall in Omaha, Nebraska

Nine

AK-47 semi-automatic rifle, 7.62x39 caliber

August 4, 2007

Delaware State University in Dover, Delaware

Three

Weapon undetermined

April 16, 2007

Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University (known as “Virginia Tech”) in Blacksburg, Virginia

32

Walther P22 semi-automatic pistol, .22 caliber, and Glock Model 19 semi-automatic pistol, 9 mm caliber

February 12, 2007

Trolley Square Mall in Salt Lake City, Utah

Five

Mossberg Maverick 88 Field shotgun, 12 gauge, and Smith & Wesson M36 revolver pistol, .38 caliber

October 2, 2006

Amish schoolhouse in Lancaster, Pennsylvania

Five

Springfield XD semi-automatic pistol, 9 mm caliber; Browning BPS pump-action shotgun, 12 gauge; and Ruger M77 bolt-action rifle, .30-06 caliber

March 25, 2006

Capitol Hill in Seattle, Washington

Seven

Winchester 1300 Defender shotgun, 12 gauge, and Ruger P944 semi-automatic pistol, .40 caliber

March 21, 2005

Red Lake Senior High School in Red Lake, Minnesota

Nine

Winchester 1300 Defender shotgun, 12 gauge, and Ruger P944 semi-automatic pistol, .40 caliber

March 12, 2005

Sheraton hotel in Brookfield, Wisconsin

Nine

Baretta 92FS semi-automatic pistol, 9 mm caliber

November 21, 2004

Hunting trip in Birchwood, Wisconsin

Six

Saiga rifle, 7.62x39 caliber

September 24, 2003

Rocori High School in Cold Spring, Minnesota

Two

Unidentified pistol, .22 caliber

August 27, 2003

Windy City Core Supply warehouse in Chicago, Illinois

Six

Walther semi-automatic pistol, .380 caliber

July 8, 2003

Lockheed Martin plant in Meridian, Mississippi

Seven

Winchester 1200 shotgun, 12 gauge, and Ruger Mini-14 semi-automatic rifle, .223 caliber

March 5, 2001

Santana High School in Santee, California

Two

Arminius revolver, .22 caliber

December 26, 2000

Edgewater Technology in Wakefield, Massachusetts

Seven

AK-47 style semi-automatic rifle, 7.62x39 caliber; Winchester 1300 shotgun, 12 gauge; and Retolaza semi-automatic pistol, .32 caliber

September 15, 1999

Wedgewood Baptist Church in Fort Worth, Texas

Seven

Ruger P85 semi-automatic pistol, 9 mm caliber, and AMT Backup semi-automatic pistol, .380 caliber

July 29, 1999

Momentum Securities and the All-Tech Investment Group in Atlanta, Georgia

12, nine with firearms

Hammer; Colt 1911A1 semi-automatic pistol, .45 caliber; Glock Model 17 semi-automatic pistol, 9 mm caliber; H&R Revolver pistol, .22 caliber; and Raven MP-25 semi-automatic pistol, .25 caliber

April 20, 1999

Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado

13

Savage-Springfield 67H pump-action shotgun, 12 gauge; Hi-Point 995 Carbine, 9 mm caliber; pipe bomb; Intratec TEC-9 semi-automatic handgun, 9 mm caliber; and Stevens 311D double-barreled sawed-off shotgun, 12 gauge

[Sousuke 1,214]

The truth? I know there are more dangerous guns being sold than the AR-15. Ones that shoot bigger and badder bullets and can rip a man's head clear off, yeah that's true. But what's also true is that those aren't the guns being used for these mass killings, the ever so feeble AR-15's are being used, almost exclusively. Wonder why that is? Care to have a delve at the truth?

Lets see. This last shooting did not use an AR. The Navy Yard shooting did not use an AR. The virginia tech shooting did not use an AR. The Norway shooting did not use an AR (but he did use the same caliber). Columbine did not use an AR.

Aurora used an AR and it jammed early on requiring the use of a shotgun. Newtown used an AR. LAX used an AR.

So lets say that AR15s are used in 30-40% of the mass shooting. Clearly banning them is going to nothing.

EDIT. After seeing Boiler's post I realize its probably closer to 5%.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Brown Dwarf