24 Premier tonight!

[fozzie 41]

If people really don't like it as much as they say then why do they watch it. I love 24. I will be watching it every week and llook forward to the cliffhangers. By now every one knows what to expect when they watch the show, but that doesn't make it any less interesting.

24 has it's place on TV. No it is not particularly intellectual and yes it's beccome all about the action, but if you don't want to watch that kind of show then i am sure you can find something more to your tastes on one of the hundereds of other

channels.

it should probably end this season to go out while stilll on top, though!

[fozzie 41]

If people really don't like it as much as they say then why do they watch it. I love 24. I will be watching it every week and llook forward to the cliffhangers. By now every one knows what to expect when they watch the show, but that doesn't make it any less interesting.

24 has it's place on TV. No it is not particularly intellectual and yes it's beccome all about the action, but if you don't want to watch that kind of show then i am sure you can find something more to your tastes on one of the hundereds of other

channels.

it should probably end this season to go out while stilll on top, though!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm out. I tried, I tried, but good god has the show jumped the shark. I'm going to free myself by BITING my way out?

And next episode he'll fly?

I saw it, and was predictably disappointed.

For one thing - the Jack Bauer character is deeply unlikeable. At least in Season 1 (and 2) he had his family to give him some sympathetic self-interest, but with that stripped away in subsequent seasons its hard to see what keeps him going. I think even the screenwriters are coming to that realisation and are dropping some serious hints that he'll probably be killed off.

They try to play with cliche's too but don't really challenge them. For example, the first episode starts off with a "suspicious" muslim-type trying to get on a bus, but isn't let on because the driver thinks he might be a terrorist. Then you see a muslim man in a middle-class suburban neighborhood being arrested while his son and sympathetic neighbors insist that "he's no terrorist". Where's the surprise? The man's son is the terrorist. Really... Incidentally, that makes the paranoid neighbour's actions justifiable, while the neighbour defending the guy is "well meaning but misguided".

And all this is underscored by a clumsy "abuse of power" angle with the Peter MacNicol character's use of law enforcement to undermine constitutional values. But the way the terrorists are presented it comes across as almost justifiable. All of which reinforces simplistic armchair politics and ivory tower "ends justify the means" B/S.

I guess we shouldn't be surprized that you would try to turn a discussion about a TV show into a political discussion.

The political angle was slightly better than I was expecting, even if it is a little 'so and so says X, and thus-and-such says not-X, and they both have good points.' But I think you're right about Jack's character. He was a lot more interesting when his motivations were smaller, and the stories weren't about Global War on Icky, but much smaller, and more personal.

And, also, he didn't have teeth of steel back then.

That whole setup was a little ridiculous -

the guy gets off the plane having been tortured by the chinese for 2 years to be told "sorry mate, we're going to give you to this terrorist guy to be tortured to death".

I was actually hoping that they would develop Bauer more in the previous season after he faked his own death to avoid being extradited - that would have made the show a little more interesting than the formulaic "multi-angle" story that they haven't really deviated from since the show began.

Instead its the same "Bauer doesn't play by the rules, goes off the grid to catch the bad guys while being chased by his 'by the book' superiors". There'll be a traitor or two (including an inside man), and a few wild plot twists masquerading as dramatic conflict.

I shouldn't really be complaining about the lack of character development in a show that show that is primarily action driven (rather than character driven), but it would be nice if TV producers would stop treating their audiences like idiots and start making more sophisticated shows.

You probably have other channels you could turn to if you don't like it.

Actually my objection (if actually you read what I wrote, which you clearly didn't... again... ) was primarily about the screenwriting, which I think is formulaic, unchallenging and oversimplifies the issues that it depicts. But if you want a political argument, here one's for you to get your cynical teeth into :

The depraved heroes of 24 are the Himmlers of Hollywood

Edited January 15, 2007 by erekose

[Caladan 19]

If people really don't like it as much as they say then why do they watch it. I love 24. I will be watching it every week and llook forward to the cliffhangers. By now every one knows what to expect when they watch the show, but that doesn't make it any less interesting.

24 has it's place on TV. No it is not particularly intellectual and yes it's beccome all about the action, but if you don't want to watch that kind of show then i am sure you can find something more to your tastes on one of the hundereds of other

channels.

it should probably end this season to go out while stilll on top, though!

I watched the premiere to give it a chance because I did like the first season. I found it too predictable, and too simplistic, which aren't necessarily bad, but not enough to hold my interest. I am no longer planning to watch it.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If people really don't like it as much as they say then why do they watch it. I love 24. I will be watching it every week and llook forward to the cliffhangers. By now every one knows what to expect when they watch the show, but that doesn't make it any less interesting.

24 has it's place on TV. No it is not particularly intellectual and yes it's beccome all about the action, but if you don't want to watch that kind of show then i am sure you can find something more to your tastes on one of the hundereds of other

channels.

it should probably end this season to go out while stilll on top, though!

I watched the premiere to give it a chance because I did like the first season. I found it too predictable, and too simplistic, which aren't necessarily bad, but not enough to hold my interest. I am no longer planning to watch it.

[garya505 2]

I'm out. I tried, I tried, but good god has the show jumped the shark. I'm going to free myself by BITING my way out?

And next episode he'll fly?

I saw it, and was predictably disappointed.

For one thing - the Jack Bauer character is deeply unlikeable. At least in Season 1 (and 2) he had his family to give him some sympathetic self-interest, but with that stripped away in subsequent seasons its hard to see what keeps him going. I think even the screenwriters are coming to that realisation and are dropping some serious hints that he'll probably be killed off.

They try to play with cliche's too but don't really challenge them. For example, the first episode starts off with a "suspicious" muslim-type trying to get on a bus, but isn't let on because the driver thinks he might be a terrorist. Then you see a muslim man in a middle-class suburban neighborhood being arrested while his son and sympathetic neighbors insist that "he's no terrorist". Where's the surprise? The man's son is the terrorist. Really... Incidentally, that makes the paranoid neighbour's actions justifiable, while the neighbour defending the guy is "well meaning but misguided".

And all this is underscored by a clumsy "abuse of power" angle with the Peter MacNicol character's use of law enforcement to undermine constitutional values. But the way the terrorists are presented it comes across as almost justifiable. All of which reinforces simplistic armchair politics and ivory tower "ends justify the means" B/S.

I guess we shouldn't be surprized that you would try to turn a discussion about a TV show into a political discussion.

The political angle was slightly better than I was expecting, even if it is a little 'so and so says X, and thus-and-such says not-X, and they both have good points.' But I think you're right about Jack's character. He was a lot more interesting when his motivations were smaller, and the stories weren't about Global War on Icky, but much smaller, and more personal.

And, also, he didn't have teeth of steel back then.

That whole setup was a little ridiculous -

the guy gets off the plane having been tortured by the chinese for 2 years to be told "sorry mate, we're going to give you to this terrorist guy to be tortured to death".

I was actually hoping that they would develop Bauer more in the previous season after he faked his own death to avoid being extradited - that would have made the show a little more interesting than the formulaic "multi-angle" story that they haven't really deviated from since the show began.

Instead its the same "Bauer doesn't play by the rules, goes off the grid to catch the bad guys while being chased by his 'by the book' superiors". There'll be a traitor or two (including an inside man), and a few wild plot twists masquerading as dramatic conflict.

I shouldn't really be complaining about the lack of character development in a show that show that is primarily action driven (rather than character driven), but it would be nice if TV producers would stop treating their audiences like idiots and start making more sophisticated shows.

You probably have other channels you could turn to if you don't like it.

Actually my objection (if actually you read what I wrote, which you clearly didn't... again... ) was primarily about the screenwriting, which I think is formulaic, unchallenging and oversimplifies the issues that it depicts. But if you want a political argument, here one's for you to get your cynical teeth into :

The depraved heroes of 24 are the Himmlers of Hollywood

Ya, ok.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Ya, ok.

What is your problem?

I don't suppose you have anything substantive to add to the thread then - apart from rubbishing my posts with your own subjectively interpreted b/s?

Edited January 15, 2007 by erekose

[Sheriff Uling 3]

The premier was really good. I have not spoken with my brother, who is a die hard fan, to get his take on it. I, on the hand, am excited about "The Unit!" Cheers!!!

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

I, on the hand, am excited about "The Unit!"

that sounded........um........wrong.......

[garya505 2]

Ya, ok.

What is your problem?

I don't suppose you have anything substantive to add to the thread then - apart from rubbishing my posts with your own subjectively interpreted b/s?

And I suppose you think your posts are objective then?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Ya, ok.

What is your problem?

I don't suppose you have anything substantive to add to the thread then - apart from rubbishing my posts with your own subjectively interpreted b/s?

And I suppose you think your posts are objective then?

We're talking about a TV show - there is no such thing as objectivity when it comes to something like that. Its ALL subjective

But you are clearly reading things into my post that are not there - hence I said selective interpretation, with the emphasis on your interpretation of my words. I said I didn't like the show and I explained why. If you disagree with that interpretation, please feel free to explain why. If you really care that much about it...

Edited January 15, 2007 by erekose

[garya505 2]

Ya, ok.

What is your problem?

I don't suppose you have anything substantive to add to the thread then - apart from rubbishing my posts with your own subjectively interpreted b/s?

And I suppose you think your posts are objective then?

We're talking about a TV show - there is no such thing as objectivity when it comes to something like that. Its ALL subjective

But you are clearly reading things into my post that are not there - hence I said selective interpretation, with the emphasis on your interpretation of my words. I said I didn't like the show and I explained why. If you disagree with that interpretation, please feel free to explain why. If you really care that much about it...

Ah, but you claim your exlanation of why you don't like the show is just about the merits of the production, when your opinion is obviously biased because you don't like the political slant of the show.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Ya, ok.

What is your problem?

I don't suppose you have anything substantive to add to the thread then - apart from rubbishing my posts with your own subjectively interpreted b/s?

And I suppose you think your posts are objective then?

We're talking about a TV show - there is no such thing as objectivity when it comes to something like that. Its ALL subjective

But you are clearly reading things into my post that are not there - hence I said selective interpretation, with the emphasis on your interpretation of my words. I said I didn't like the show and I explained why. If you disagree with that interpretation, please feel free to explain why. If you really care that much about it...

Ah, but you claim your exlanation of why you don't like the show is just about the merits of the production, when your opinion is obviously biased because you don't like the political slant of the show.

Sure. If you think the political slant is independent from the teleplay. Good luck trying to argue that...

[garya505 2]

Ya, ok.

What is your problem?

I don't suppose you have anything substantive to add to the thread then - apart from rubbishing my posts with your own subjectively interpreted b/s?

And I suppose you think your posts are objective then?

We're talking about a TV show - there is no such thing as objectivity when it comes to something like that. Its ALL subjective

But you are clearly reading things into my post that are not there - hence I said selective interpretation, with the emphasis on your interpretation of my words. I said I didn't like the show and I explained why. If you disagree with that interpretation, please feel free to explain why. If you really care that much about it...

Ah, but you claim your exlanation of why you don't like the show is just about the merits of the production, when your opinion is obviously biased because you don't like the political slant of the show.

Sure. If you think the political slant is independent from the teleplay. Good luck trying to argue that...

No it's not, and neither is any critique of the show (including yours) independent of the politics.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

No it's not, and neither is any critique of the show (including yours) independent of the politics.

Thanks for explaining to me the semantics of subjectivity. As I said:

We're talking about a TV show - there is no such thing as objectivity when it comes to something like that. Its ALL subjective

My critique of the show is not the politics - its the writing (including the one-dimensional characterization of the "hero"), and the fact that the screenwriters play with, but don't challenge established cliches. I don't object to the themes - just that they are dealt with in an overly simplistic way (which is why I gave the examples I did).

Other shows, such as Battlestar Galactica for example, have a similar political slant, and now that I come to think of it so did Casino Royale, the latest James Bond film - both of which have a much higher standard of screenwriting IMO. Though I'm sure others will disagree - that's whats fun about opinions, not everyone agrees. But that's obvious, like subjectivity

Edited January 15, 2007 by erekose