New Russian "Show me your Papers" Law for Dual Citizens

[Nick_Moscow 2]

Please don't respond that I should chill out; this is just healthy discussion of newly proposed law that may affect RUBettes in a serious way, in the context of issues discussed here on visajourney.com.

Then....why do you make this statement?

Since our country has somehow managed to re-open the Cold War,

replace with:

Since our country has acted in such a way as to create relations with Russia that are worse than at any point since the end of the Cold War

C'mon Baron, Let's at least save VJ as a place where we can escape the PC shield that the MSM uses to protect any negative analysis of anything the current administration has done.

[JohnR! 5,495]

replace with:

Since our country has acted in such a way as to create relations with Russia that are worse than at any point since the end of the Cold War

C'mon Baron, Let's at least save VJ as a place where we can escape the PC shield that the MSM uses to protect any negative analysis of anything the current administration has done.

That would be relevant if the law of which you speak applied only to Russian citizens who chose to become US citizens. As it stands, the law applies to Russians who took citizenship in other countries as well.

I think you are bashing the wrong country. It was the workman's very own hero, comrade Putin who signed the law into effect, not Bush, Clinton, W or Obama.

[baron555 934]

replace with:

Since our country has acted in such a way as to create relations with Russia that are worse than at any point since the end of the Cold War

C'mon Baron, Let's at least save VJ as a place where we can escape the PC shield that the MSM uses to protect any negative analysis of anything the current administration has done.

I agree but stop the US bashing....don't give in to the Russian governmental media (the only that exists there) that all the events in Ukraine are solely to blame on the US and that Russia is so innocent.

[Nick_Moscow 2]

I agree but stop the US bashing....don't give in to the Russian governmental media (the only that exists there) that all the events in Ukraine are solely to blame on the US and that Russia is so innocent.

OH, I think you got the wrong idea...I can't stand bitter self-loathing Americans who have painted the USA's NATO-expanding hand well, but ignore Russia. Her interests are far from virgin in this Ukraine fight, much worse if you ask me.

Ukraine is not at all what I was discussing here!

But while we're on the topic...

If one does not know that the EU receives 25% of its natural gas from Russia, and 80% of that gas travels through Ukrainian pipelines, and one does not know that Syria (Russia's strong ally) blocked the proposed Qatar-Turkey pipeline that would supply natural gas to Europe, it is very hard to take your opinion on the Ukraine crisis seriously.

My "Cold War" reply was meant to point out how absolutely little the USA (under the current administration) knows about politics to have allowed such a baffling hardening of US-Russian relations. Baron, I thought you were offended that I had insulted The One and wanted me to tone down my criticism of this utter foreign policy failure.

And back to the OP, Russia's move on the passports is probably correct. USA is probably foretelling her own demise by allowing dual citizenship, because when the s*it hits the fan, you need citizens who will hunker down on your side. When it comes time to pay the piper of overspending, the USA will need people stuck in her, from whom to extract tax payments. Also, what is a country without her borders and her citizens, and if so many citizens hold dual allegiances, how can you count on them? Ironically, instead of me bit*hing about Russia's new law, I should probably be advocating for a similar one to be passed here!

[Neonred 3,564]

So how is it that the title of your thread is New Russian "Show me your Papers" Law for Dual Citizens , and the article clearly states that Russians with dual citizenship living in Russia will need to register their dual citizenship, yet you insist that dual citizenship was outlawed years ago? Seems a little inconsistant.

Also where did you get the idea that dual citizenship was ever outlawed? Can you document it? I don't think so.

Listen to all those other Russians that are telling you otherwise.

[JohnR! 5,495]

The title of this thread should be: Putin is a joke. Obama to blame. :rofl:

[vbtwo 54]

No and NO. Nyet!! Nikak! Nikogda!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_nationality_law#Dual_citizenship_treaties

If you know Russian, click on the Russian language link for this Wikipedia entry and you'll see that the Russian Federation only recognizes dual citizenship with countries with which it has treaties.

You are wrong. From the same Wikipedia (in Russian, article regarding dual citizenship):

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B6%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B5_%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%BE_%D0%B2_%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B8

This is the law as quoted in the article:

1. Гражданин Российской Федерации может иметь гражданство иностранного государства (двойное гражданство) в соответствии с федеральным законом или международным договором Российской Федерации.
2. Наличие у гражданина Российской Федерации гражданства иностранного государства не умаляет его прав и свобод и не освобождает от обязанностей, вытекающих из российского гражданства, если иное не предусмотрено федеральным законом или международным договором Российской Федерации.

And from a different law:

1. Гражданин Российской Федерации, имеющий также иное гражданство, рассматривается Российской Федерацией только как гражданин России, за исключением случаев, предусмотренных международным договором Российской Федерации или федеральным законом.
2. Приобретение гражданином Российской Федерации иного гражданства не влечет за собой прекращение гражданства Российской Федерации.

Translation:

1. Citizen of the Russian Federation can have citizenship of another country (dual citizenship) according to federal law or an international agreement of the Russian Federation
2. The existence of citizenship of another country of a citizen of the Russian Federation does not reduce his rights and freedoms and does not relinquish his duties that he gets from Russian citizenship, unless something different is written in federal law or an international agreement of the Russian Federation.

Second law:

1. A citizen of the Russian Federation that also has another citizenship, is viewed by the Russian Federation only as a citizen of Russia except for cases where different is written in an international agreement of the Russian Federation or federal law.
2. Acquiring foreign citizenship by a citizen of the Russian Federation does not terminate citizenship of the Russian Federation.

Thus dual citizenship is not and was never outlawed. Russia just does not care at all about the other citizenship and view you as a Russian citizen, just like everyone else is saying. They have some agreements where they actually recognize that you are a foreign citizen too with a few countries, but it's not outlawed in any way to have dual citizenship with any country.

[Nick_Moscow 2]

You are wrong. From the same Wikipedia (in Russian, article regarding dual citizenship):

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B6%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B5_%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%BE_%D0%B2_%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B8

Thus dual citizenship is not and was never outlawed. Russia just does not care at all about the other citizenship and view you as a Russian citizen, just like everyone else is saying. They have some agreements where they actually recognize that you are a foreign citizen too with a few countries, but it's not outlawed in any way to have dual citizenship with any country.

Friends, I'm surprised you're debating whether dual citizenship was ever outlawed in the first place, instead of discussing how this law may affect our Russian wives or husbands. There really is no debating the dual citizenship question; if your Russian wife was born in the USSR before becoming an RF citizen after 2002 you would know this (as she had to give up the passport of her former USSR country to obtain the RF passport):

(emphasis below is mine)

(from the same Wikipedia entry)

Citizenship act of 2002[edit]

In 2002, a new citizenship act, supported by President Putin,^[3][4] replaced the act of 1991.

Naturalization is usually granted if the applicant meets the following requirements:

• has applied for termination of another citizenship (though the actual loss of foreign citizenship is not required)

You all are debating whether a Russian citizen who has acquired another citizenship has broken the law.

I am acknowledging that beginning in 2002, citizens of other countries who wished to become RF citizens had to first terminate the other citizenship.

So you're right that "dual citizenship" is not outlawed if you're referring to emigrants of RF, but if "dual citizenship" refers to immigrants to RF, then clearly this is not allowed. In acknowledging that immigrant dual citizenship was outlawed in 2002, I took a step further in my logic - I foresaw the issues that could arise with emigrant dual citizenship (vs. immigrant dual citizenship), since beginning in 2002 immigrant dual citizenship was outlawed.

This newly proposed law is the "proof" that what I foresaw is coming to bear. Rather than debate technicalities of whether dual citizenship is outlawed by RF, let's see how this coming law will affect our Russian spouses. I hope ekee is right that I'm making an elephant out of a fly (mountain out of a molehill), but given the international and domestic sway Russia is obtaining under Putin I think it's in all of our interests to closely monitor the implementation of this law.

[eekee 182]

I know people who have gotten Russian citizenship, and they didn't lose their original citizenship. They did write a letter, but it's hard to lose citizenship of your country of birth in most cases.

[eekee 182]

http://www.fontanka.ru/2014/05/28/120/ it says those who live abroad permanently are exempt here, as did the Moscow Times http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-targets-traitorous-dual-citizenship-holders/501163.html

[anka 1]

Yep! But if this isn't something new and those who haven't seen these changes coming over the past decade (ie: laws getting more and more stringent, et al), then they've been living under a rock! And I mean no disrespect to those who don't follow Russian politika.

There are Americans who own business and property in Russia. The climate is going to become tougher and tougher, IMO, but not exactly because of this law in particular.

[PJB 0]

Re: New Russian laws for registration of dual citizens.......

Me...USA citizen

Hubby....Russian citizen with USA greencard

When hubby's Russian international passport expired last year he was not allowed to renew it until he was registered in the San Francisco Russian Consulate as a "Russian citizen living in America".

He still has an apt in Russia and is also registered there. So far no problems at passport control in America or Russia. (He travels to Russia 2x yearly)

We also have a lot of friends and family in Russia and worry that Putin's anti-western campaign will make it difficult or impossible to visit. Due to this new law on registering foreign passports in Russia we are holding off on his USA citizenship because it could be used to take away his Russian property or keep him out of Russia if Putin goes back to Soviet style laws.